New Car Advice??!! (5-seater, 40+ mpg, 5 years old or less, $14k budget)

[A.D.D.]

Not sure where to post this.

I introduced myself.

No replies.

So, here goes.......

I am in the market for a "NEW" car. Budget $14k

It MUST seat 5 and I would like to see 40+ mpg.

I am a car enthusiast and WOULD build one of these crazy electric/ hybrid/ Experimental vehicles in a heartbeat...... BUT..... I am MARRIED.

I have a 1950 Studebaker Pickup and a 1951 Chevy Business coupe hot rod.

My WIFE drives a 2004 VW passat wagon with power God knows EVERYTHING.....

Time to replace it. So... I convinced her we need something more fuel effiecient. I am ready to take the plunge and find a new hobby (fuel efficiency).

So..... out there in Ecomodder....land..... WHAT....in your OPINION would be the best BASIS...the best "Testbed" for an "Eco-mod" challenge.

Keep in mind... it MUST be newer (likely 5 years old or newer), have creature comforts, and be UNDER $14,000 smacker-roos!

So far..... in the running: Scion XB and XD, Honda FIT, VW TDI (used) and the Nissan CUBE.

I am leaning HEAVILY towards a NISSAN CUBE. NEW 2012 for 14k and change + tax, title, tags.....

Keep in mind I have had old cars, Hot Rods and GERMAN cars. I (and my wife especially) will not be caught DEAD in a homely econo-box. In fact..I checked out the mazda 3 Skyactiv (out of budget)...and settled on ONLY the hot-hatch. BUT... can't justifuy $20k+ for the upscale model required to get Skyactiv.

So........
given the budget, and the parameters, what would YOU pick?

















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[Daox]

I'm not sure what you mean by homely econobox. Most of the cars now a days have pretty good fit and finish even if they are a subcompact.

That being said, unless your wife drives for good fuel economy and/or does 99% highway driving at reasonable speeds (speed limit or less) none of those vehicles (save the TDI) will get you the 40+ mpg you are looking for. A hybrid would. Pretty much any car hybrid would achieve your 40 mpg you're looking for. So, in your price range you'd be looking at a Civic Hybrid, Prius, or maybe even an Insight (if you are willing to plunk down just a little more).

[A.D.D.]

Thanks for the reply.

I am realistic. And I am a motorhead. So.... ideally...I would like to build a lifted VW Westfalia camper TDI hybrid AWD with a safari rack ...fully self contained and capable of running on nearly anything combustible including bio-diesel.....


But....I am married and this will be the wife's commuter. So....NO PROJECTS. I have to BUY something newer.

Also, we are on the West Coast....Seattle....so people are a little weird up here. Sand Beige sub compact 4 door sedans are everywhere....but the "HIP" younger Seattlites (like my wife) are into quirky cars. IE: Honda Element, Prius, Smart cars, Toyota IQ, Fiat, Mini cooper, Audi TT, VW Beetle, Nissan Cube, etc......

In my defense.... I am from back East....land of the black LINCOLN Town Car that gets 12 mpg.......


So... I guess my question is about economics. Personally... I could find a used GEO METRO and get 50MPG pretty easily. Or buy an old Beetle and convert it to electric (quite a few of those here around town).....

BUT.... again, I am Married and the wife will be the primary driver. Her car is a 2004 purchased new and gets 25 or so on the hiway and a WORST of 20 in traffic and depending on weather.

My goal is to buy something cheap ($14k or less) that runs on cheap gas, cheap tires, cheap oil changes, etc.... that be be modded conservatively and lends itself to mods (already aero-dynamic) and already a gas sipper.

That being said.... SHE has input. It has to have power windows, keyless entry, etc. I would be curious how many eco-modders have wives that will drive a modded car with no A/C or power accessories

So... I figure 40+ mpg is the target (and I would be happy with 32, 33, 34, 35+ while getting there).

I won't pay a premium for the Mazda "Skyactiv" technology...because I will NEVER get that money back in fuel savings. Hybrids are OUT... too expensive and used models will need potential expensive repairs (if anyone is curious--check Seattle Craigslist--our used car market is OUTRAGEOUS).

That leaves cheap gas powered 4 bangers and TDI. VW is one of the only makers with a TDI in our price range and most are pre 2005 with UP TO 200,000 miles! The Golf is too small and Jetta and Passat Wagons are hard to come by. BUT... my wife would JUMP at a 2005 Passat Wagon TDI with low miles......

Her VW is worth around $8k... so with tax and title, etc... we are paying around $8k for the new ride.

I found a 2010 "CUBE" used for $12,500 with 10k miles on the clock. They are rated at 35 hiway. Forums show that MOST owners are reporting 29-31 average.
I could see 35 being an acheivable goal with some mods...BUT........40? The car is shaped like a........a...... well, a CUBE. I just can't imagine overcoming the aero-dynamics!

The Scion XD is MUCH more slippery....but fuel mileage averages seem to be less overall.

We looked at the Honda "FIT".... but not sure if we will all......"FIT".

It's frustrating!

DAMN automakers! I had a 1963 Nova Super Sport with a 283 V8/ powerglide automatic as a teen in the 80's... it was good for 18-25 MPG!!!!!!!!!!!! My 1954 Chevy coupe with a 235 6 banger 3 on the tree was CHERRY and good for the same 20+ MPG!

Never had one... but the little Nash Metropolitan from the 50's was good for 30+ MPG CONSISTENTLY!!!!!

My wife's first car was a used Nissan Pulsar that was a consistant 30 MPG'r.....


So...WHY....OH, WHY do the 2012 models (smaller cars --excluding hybrids and electric)....pretty much ALL average 30ish MPG?

GEEZ.

We take weekend trips, Ski, Hike, etc...... so whatever we get has to have room (roof racks defeat the purpose here). And with the miles we drive... it's finally time to get at least ONE vehicle in the household that sips gas.

Any additional feedback would be appreciated!

[MetroMPG]

I think the blanket dismissal of hybrids is a bit much.

I'd be looking for a 2004+ Prius. They're as bullet-proof reliable as you can get from Toyota. TDI diesels must have an equal "premium" over a plain gas car as a hybrid does.

Stay away from the boxy/cube-y trendy vehicles. You have to drive them quite slowly to get excellent highway mileage from them. And I doubt your wife will be happy to hear that the "solution" to their mediocre highway mileage is an aerodynamic boat tail.

[A.D.D.]

I would consider a hybrid... but am concerned about budget. Used cars are really expensive up here...and people in Seattle LOVE hybrids and Subarus.....




surfing Craigslist now..... under $15k seem to be 2006 and older.......

I would also need to know what expenses would be expected on a 15 year old hybrid with 150k miles......... (if I buy a 2003 for example and own it for another 5 years)......


Thanks.

[Debonair]

What about an HHR? Smaller, yet i hear they are roomy. Just looking on craigslist and they are surprisingly cheap. You could grab a SS with a turbo so you have some pep.

[MetroMPG]

Have you checked the MPG of a turbo HHR?? It's nowhere close to 40! (Neither is the non-turbo.)

A.D.D. - you should check the ratings of the cars you're considering:
Search by Make - fueleconomy.gov

[Daox]

An HHR, really? Lets see how that stacks up against the competition.




I took your suggestion ADD and did do a craigslist search in your area. I found a ton of vehicles for sale that meet nearly your exact criteria. I didn't even post nearly all the cars that I found.

2007 TOYOTA PRIUS PACKAGE # 6 ... 45K ... RED ... TAN LEATHER ... 2007

2006 Toyota Prius Hybrid 5DR Hatchback Low 44k Miles Black

2005 HONDA CIVIC HYBRID - 50MPG - BLUE - 52K MILES - AUTO-SEDAN

This one is a steal:
2010 HONDA INSIGHT HYBRID Low Miles

2005 Toyota Prius

2006 Toyota Prius Liftback, Traction Control, Push Start Button, #4010

2006 Toyota Prius Hybrid◄-QUALITY SELECTION!@Select Motors

2005 Toyota Prius-Very practical Hybrid!!Free service contract??



As for the maintenance of hybrids, the Prius has one of the lowest costs to own of any vehicle out there. If you're really worried about things shy away from the Honda hybrids as they tend to have a few more issues (though most are easily fixable if you know what you're doing).

[SoobieOut]

I have had good results with my Civic Hybrid. It would meet all of your requirements. Been driving it for 3 years and only had two tanks where the mileage was below 40 MPG, due to heavy snow and mountain driving.

I would look for a 2006 or newer Civic hybrid as they made alot of improvements from 2005 to 2006 model years.

Welcome to ecomodder and Good luck with your search!

[A.D.D.]

Wow! You guys are great!

I appreciate all of the feedback!

I actually looked at the HHR, and ALL of the "Boxy" type vehicles (Scion, Cube, PT Cruiser, Soul, etc)..... Even checked out/ drove the Highlander hybrid (gas and cost are out).

So far only the Cube and Scion are of interest (the cube and xb offer high roof loading areas with fold down seats).

HATE TO SAY IT..... but we are station wagon/ suv lifestyle folks. "Fun--recreational" vehicles over the last 15 years have been: a lifted and modified Landcruiser (drove it to Alaska for vacation once), 2 subaru wagons and the VW passat wagon. Years ago...I had VW camper-buses (2-3 over a 5 year period).... if I could have one of those that gave me 40 MPG..I would NEVER be without one til the day I died............

I saw most of those Hybrids on Craigslist. One concern..... several are "Reconstructed/rebuilt title". That means they were "totaled". Now, I have bodyshop experience and "totaled" could mean minor damage--- but if the airbags deployed....it's TOAST as far as the insurance company, liability and pretty much any chance of ever having a clean title again.

Don't get me wrong... when I was younger I had a couple of "Branded title" cars. One VW Golf in particular was a SCREAMING deal! Another was a buddies 5.0 Mustang Nevada hiway patrol interceptor (all police, taxi, etc.. vehicles are "branded" so to speak).

It's VERY common up here in Seattle... we have DOZENS of car dealers that buy wrecks, rebuild them as resell for profit...nothing wrong with that--- but NOT for me (at this age).

Another concern I have is a few friends with problems with their hybrids. 2 were Honda civics with battery problems, one was a Prius that was likely just a lemon.

My Mother in law works for a Toyota Dealer and sings their praises... but admits that they have seen some pretty high repair bills.

When it comes to buying cars, I usually get extraordinary deals... but I am not motivated to have a car payment.

If it were just me.. I would consider something less than $6k (and well back of book)...drive it for a year (or 2-3) and sell it for nearly what I originally paid. (done it many times).

Again, my concerns with the hybrids are WHAT exactly I can do to it myself. I mean, a cheap little 4 banger will get a full synthetic oil change every 4-5k miles with a dealer oil filter for less than $50 (diy), cheap tires, brakes for $50 an axle or less, cheap Costco >87 octane gas, etc. If the alternator goes out.. I can diy for $100, etc, etc, etc......

With the internet....diy tutorials are 100% better than the old Bentley manual and common mechanic knowledge.

Also looking at resale. I won't pay a premium because it's desireable... but also expect to spend no more than $3500 a year TOTAL OPERATING COSTS... based on 15k miles a year... and 1/3 depreciation over 5 years... on fuel, maintenance, etc...... Obviously I would like to spend less....

With my fuzzy math... that's 5 years on a $15k car... with 32.5 mpg average + oil changes, tires, brakes and possibly a timing belt/chain (75k-ish after 5 years or added onto the miles on it when I bought it used) $2k in fuel, $1k in depreciation.. the rest in maintenance.

I would love to spend 1/2 that a year............

So...I guess I will go drive a certified pre owned Prius and Civic.... to see how they drive and how they fit into our lifestyle.... if they pass muster.. I'll look for a "deal"

I am also looking at what all of you are driving and what kind of mileage you are getting.


Also... HOW IN THE WORLD is that green Scion getting such high mileage???????


Still gotta drive the Honda Fit too (looks too small though).


Thanks again.