New to the Eco mod territory... ('96 Civic hatch with HX lean burn engine swap)
 

The name is lawrence and my story.

Driving to work one day in my 1996 Honda Civic hatch back dx with a d16y7 SOHC with about 125000 miles on it. I was mining my own business crusing in the back country road, BAM! traffic, BAM! Upper radiator hose blow car over heated, head gasket started leaking internally my Vic is now a steam train all the way home... I parked the car have started doing research on what to do next...

After about 3 weeks of Internet/ forums/ pros/cons... The decision was made... I am going to look for a D16Y5, SOHC VtecE and swap everything out!(Thank you craiglists) found a complete swap.

Long story short, the swap is completed and I am on my break in period, I would load some pix but I need 5 post first! Will show pix once I get there!

so what was the cost of the used engine verses the head gasket replacement cost. dont count the hastle factor

A head gasket job would have cost me less than $100. But I will have to change out a lot of gaskets and fix a few other leaks, properly about $300 in parts total.

With what I did
The used D16Y5 with TRANNY, ECU, LINKAGE, DRIVESHAFTS $400.
Machine shop for cleaning, decked, and a valve job $300 (local)
A rebuild kit with new water pump and oil pump $280 (eBay)
A wiring harness because I wanted a factory complete look $130 used (eBay)

I sold the D16Y7 as is for $200 on CL. So a total cost of $900 was the cost to have this swap done plus about 40-50 hours of work! (mostly cleaning and monkeying rusted parts)

Also, I should mention that I commute to work 35 miles each way, with the Y7 I was getting 36~mpg vs this Y5 that should gets 44+ on a bad day. I have never really cared for gas prices, but the more research I do, the more I think this is a chanellege to me. I am aiming for 50 mpg which I think with a few mod, judging by what I have been reading, it is durable!!! I think I have just found a new hobbie!!

Thanks for that I am discussing a used engine verses a new head gasket with my son and his 1996 accord 4cyl 2.2 . these real world costs will help (Him) to make his a choice

Accord engine is dime a dozen on CL, if you can build them, they are dirt cheap. However, in some cases, it is cheaper to buy a JDM import because you can just pull your old one out and drop the new one in, it save a lot of time and labor. I don't mind doing to work as I like hiding in the garage. But it would have cost me about $700 to swap a JDM engine.(note: $700 would be a replacement engine not a conversion to a diffent type engine) hope this help you!

Post just to post pix!!! Lol

Its a big help. the only problem I find with the jdm.s is the fact that while they may have 30to40thousand miles on then that does not really reflect the run time/ Idle time.the time spent in traffic and maintenance preformed, and you still should pull the head and pan of an unknown engine imho.

Agreed, I will never put an unknown engine in my cars. On the accord, you could just rebuild, $600-$800 you would have yourself a new Honda that would go for... Well until you want to get rid of it!!!

post away

nice

Welcome to the forum, Lawrence.

For the benefit of those of us who aren't fluent in Hondaspeak, what are the main differences between the dead engine and the replacement that will help fuel economy?

So, no results yet, I take it. Hope you'll enter your car in the garage and start a fuel log if you're going to stick around.

D16Y7
SOHC, 16v, 85hp(crank), 34mpg avg,

D16Y5
SOHC, 16v, 115hp(crank), 36mpg avg

The biggest different is that the D16Y5 is a Vtec-E. it only operate 12v below 2800 rpm, it also has a lean burn feature that allows to run very lean A:f ratio on 5th gear between 1900-3000 rpm depending on load. So in simple terms, if you stay off the gas paddle and below 70mph @2900rpm it uses 75% of the 1.6l and inject only 20% of normal fuel amount. Hope this help!!

Gotcha - thanks!

So is the D16Y5the engine from the Civic HX? Aside from the 1st gen Insight, the only other Honda lean burn engine I new about was the d15z1 from the Civic VX.

1996-2000 HX, these are only in the coupe model!!! Same family engine. The better engine to get would have been JDM D15Z1 with the triple Vtec-E for FE, that engine has dual Vtec so you can lean it out even more and have more control if done right! But since i am bot a tuning expert and the HP different between thr two put me off. It also helped that I got a killer deal on the Y5!!
In have already added this to my garage. I am currently sourcing parts and breaking in. Give it about a few weeks, I will post some results!

Thanks for clarifying. Hope you get good results - looking forward to the update.

I don't see your garage entry. ( Your Garage: [ Add new vehicle ] )

So, first 3/4 tank during break in is completed. Engine runs good. Fuel log is done, I am only getting 32.99mpg at this point. Not sure what the problem is just yet. A part of it might be the heavy traffic 4 morning in a roll for about 10 miles each morning. I have also been driving a lot @ 2500rpm and @3000rpm for break in reason, but that's should not affect the mpg too much as that's about a normal traffic speed just around 70mph.

The y5 so far is performing about the same on mpg vs the y7. A lot more power, very smooth! I am going to adjust 1 system at a time and will keep this updated as I go. When I have all the bugs worke out. The Eco mods will begin! Cheers!

Nice car. Use the ecomodder search function in the top left corner. There are some others who have done swaps like this one, looking for the FE that comes from lean burn. Some experienced problems too, IIRC. Reading their threads might be useful for you.

Good, another HX (sort of) and looks like your a local (I'm in Puyallup).

When you swapped, I assume you used the D16Y5 ECU, wiring harness, and O2 sensor, right? Are you using any sort of instrumentation to verify that it's going into Lean Burn mode?

Yes, I used all Y5 EQ! ECU, wiring and all. No instrument, any recommendation?

The UltraGauge and Scan Gauge II are both quite popular on here and just plug into your OBDII port. They are easy to hook up and use. I use an UG and am pretty happy with it (good features and inexpensive).

Both have one problem... they can't accurately report fuel economy on a Lean Burn engine. To do that, you need to tap into the fuel injector circuits and an MPGuino can do that.

Even with the UG or SGII, you can tell when it enters Lean Burn mode, you just can't rely on the MPG data while it's in Lean Burn.

Last I checked, the D16y7 is 106 hp, not 85, and the Y5 is 115 hp, not 125. You'll be gaining a bit, but not as much as what you posted.

Also, I highly doubt it goes as lean as 58:1. More like 22:1, while the Insight goes as lean as 25:1.

It'll be good, and I'd love to have an HX engine, but don't oversell your expectations.

Correction made, thanks for the info.

Considering you have to replace the engine, there's no other way I'd go. You have the HX transmission as well, right? Can you report the rpm in top gear at 60 mph? I'm running about 2500 rpm.

60mph @ 2400
63mph @ 2500

Good info, would you please explaine more on I can tell when it enters lean burn!!!

Nice to see another HX swapped EK hatchback. Mine uses a VX trans, but same HX engine ecu, etc. your goal of 50 MPG should be pretty easy to hit. Just need to figure out how to drive that new engine of yours!

I still have issues getting in lean burn whatever I want at low RPMs. It is really picky at the 1900 rpm level. I have figured out how to use the low speed lean burn, but if I hit traffic and kick out, it will not go back in at the lower rpm. At 2400-2500 it seems perfectly fine though. Still troubleshooting it.

Below is the link to my build thread.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...wap-23235.html

This is a lot more involved than I think... ... So much to learn! Just picked up some Marvel Mystery Oil and added 4oz, have the tank topped off. 500miles break in is completed. Lighter oil will be going in this weekend, tire pressures will be going up as well(it was left at 36psi to see the different between the Y7 and Y5). Will be advancing the timing as well. All the little things will be done!!! Will up date next week for results.

awesome! good luck!

Might not get around to all that after all. Heater went out, and the knock sensor came in. Spent all my time fixing the AC, heating and the knock sensor(wish I had it during the rebuild,would have took an hour less time). Good news is that everything is now fixed. Going to have the tires air up and test the MMO Only this week.

updates... with the tires air to 40 psi(max), I am now getting 36mpg. (tires were aired from 28-40 at half tank). I also added MMO in with my fuel but i dont think is doing much since my engine is completely rebuilt and I have cleaned out everything inside and out!!! once I get another few tanks in, I will skip a tank and see what it does.

do you feel the car going into lean burn?

It's hard to say??? What does it feel like? I am getting 36+ which is good consider the morning Seattle traffic and the evening Everett madness i have to drive through. A total of 25 miles daily 4 days a week...

If anyone could discribe how it feels maybe I can tell you if I am getting lean burn. Don't really want to spend $160 for a scangauge just yet... Thinking about getting a wideband but am currently undicided.

I guess if you are stuck in traffic, you really wont see much benifit to the lean burn engine. As for how it feels, most people feel a slight miss when the car enters and exits lean burn. Also, while in lean burn your power is GREATLY reduced.

Do you have a smart phone? 1carnut is using a bluetooth conector he picked up for $20 to give all the same stats you wuld normally see on a scan gauge. Another option is the $60 ultragauge

I'm fortunate that I can delay my commute and avoid some of the worst of it. And the south end is a bit lighter than the mess between Everett and Seattle. 36 isn't too bad, considering. Pulse and coast (I generally don't "glide" with the engine off) works pretty well when I do get stuck in nasty traffic.

I feel a slight stumble as it enters lean burn and a slight surge when it leaves. It's hard to notice unless I'm holding very steady on the throttle. An ultragauge is probably cheaper than a wideband O2 senser...

Ultra gauge, and wifi for $20!!! Where can I find more information about these products?

Remember that neither the ScanGauge nor the UltraGauge will be accurate with a lean-burn engine. They monitor air consumption and calculate fuel use based on an assumed stoichiometric A/F ratio. They don't detect or know about lean burn in performing those calcs.

MPGuino is the way to go.

darcane's description is what I would have said. Very slight stumble, throttle response "deadens" while in lean burn (not nearly as responsive). In the Insight it's obvious when you enter lean burn because the instant MPG display jumps up by ~25 MPG.

Just google the ultragage EM to find them for $60 or so. I will ask 1carnut about his bluetooth OBD2 connector. It is pretty slick. If I had a smart phone I would get one. Both do similar things like the scangauge and are cheaper alternatives.

I currently use both a scangauge and an MPGuino. Got a scangauge before i knew about the other products, so I just keep using it. Both the Scangauge and MPGuino are great tools. The scan guage is perfect for letting me know when I am lean burn, letting me get unter to proper conditions to enter lean burn, and allowing me to maintain the proper coniditions to stay in lean burn. The MPGuino is a great too to moniter instant MPG, trip mpg, and tank mph. You also can see the MPG instant MPG jump up when you get in lean burn, but I like a watching the 2nd O2 sensor reading more as my eyes are already focused on the other gauges I have displayed on the Scangauge.

Ok... You all suck!!! I just broke down and bought an ultragauge. Will update later, perhaps write a new post on that specifically for the HX!!