The new Mrs Arragonis-mobile
 

aka the car with no name.

Our family experiment with an unmodified Prius (2011) ended here

Summary - it makes driving eco easy but you still need to "try" to get every advantage. The main issue is that the built quality is very poor - think 1990s Yugo - compared to other cars the same price - nearly £36K here, $50K US. And when you need to "press on" the petrol engine is, well, cr@p - noisy, thirsty (compared to a Diesel) and lacking in grunt - 90hp from 1.8, really ? The Prius itself is not comfortable or quiet on a long journey - e.g. 500 mile round trips to England (aka Civilisation) and back to Scotland (Northern Colonies :thumbup: )

The A-Family replacement is a Skoda Octavia 1.6 CR with DSG (aka computer controlled semi auto) - for those of you outside Europe this is an identical but badge-cheaper version (in money terms, not toys) of a VW Golf "Wagon" with an engine I don't think you can buy - 1.6 TDI, 115 hp.

It has "all the toys" (sat nav, trip computer - inc MPG, glass roof, stop-start, parking sensors, fancy interior) and was owned by someone who did <3K miles in 12 months. It is more or less a brand new car but for £6K off the new price. It still smells new inside.

So how does it drive ?

In short this is a Prius killer, for most drivers.

The DSG is amazing. Each gear change is invisible to the driver except for the rev counter dancing up or down - no jerks or sudden shifts.

You can "tune" the car selecting ECO, Normal and Performance modes for the DSG and engine - selecting ECO for the engine for example means the Start-Stop is super attentive, sport mode means it is always on. For the gearbox it means more rapid up changes (ECO) vs more kickdown (Sport) - all super smooth. In "eco" mode the DSG makes sure the engine is under 2K in all gears, and there are 7 of them for it to select from.

When cruising ~70 MPH (UK motorway limit) is about 1500 RPM.

One downside on this model is there are no F1 style flippers to shift up and down - you have to use the lever pressing front and back for that. But there is no need to at all as the gearbox is better "sorted" than most of us here. It even shifts between Neutral and coasting in gear by itself depending on what gets the best MPG - it says "Coasting" on the display, otherwise the revs drop to idle when you lift off - even at 70 +.

The 1.6 engine proves there is a "replacement for displacement" by putting out as much torque as Mrs A's previous Octavia (which was a 2.0 litre 140 PD model) and almost as much as my Audi A6 2.7 TDI. In short this thing is quick - overtaking is no problem (up to, *cough , sorry officer), lane changing is instant.

The instrumentation offers instant MPG, MPG since refuel, since start (this journey) and since reset - a random one for the driver to decide. A downside is that you can only display one at a time (i.e. not instant vs avg) which is not so great but they refresh very quickly. We await a tank to go so we can check how accurate they are.

Tyres happen to be the same model and size as the Prius.

Issues so far - the sat nav (SD card supplied) wasn't working but we only discovered that afterwards. The dealer we bought it from (Nissan) didn't know what to do so passed it to the local Skoda place who more or less shrugged and suggested £100+ to sort it. As Mrs A travels for work she needs it, so I solved it online and it now works for under £20, although built in sat-nav is always less good than the Android one or TomTom. The Prius one was equally cr@p too.

Second issue is that because cars keep track of servicing this thing thinks it needs an oil change just because it is coming up to a year old. The selling dealer stated both of these had been done, but as they obviously haven't we will get them done (so we know they have been) and have an argument with the dealer seperately later - this thing is needed for work.

I'll put tanks into the history to see how this goes, but as the old Octavia would do about 400 miles a tank and this one is 350 miles with 2/3 a tank to go I think it might be quite good in comparison.

I intend to update Hermann when I get a chance - work has been very busy for the past few months.

I value the comparison you have made between the Prius and VW; thanks for sharing.

Unfortunately, in the U.S., VW is terrible. They aren't reliable (although I've heard the Golf is a little better), and service costs are twice as high. The Prius here is much cheaper, but VW carries a premium price. Old used Golf's with a million miles still go for thousands of dollars.

My friend recently purchased a Mk4 Golf, and so far has had a bad wheel bearing, bad alternator, and now an exhaust leak in the flex pipe. Way too many issues for a car with under 200k miles on it.

I'm guessing VW quality is better in Europe, and servicing them is more reasonable.

As long as that headache is not either Mrs A's listening to the rattles, or mine listening to Mrs A describing the rattles in full detail, I'm happy.

The new motah is rattle free so far.

I have heard this from a few friends based in the colonies and I do wonder if VW sell something else there compared to here. Here they have a reputation for lasting a long time but when they break it is usually something spendy in the mechanical department, so if you buy one with a service history they tend to last well into long life.

The longer life of cars is interesting as Audi (my own) has issues gong beyond 80K, VW maybe beyond 100K (below) but Vauxhall (aka GM in the UK) has managed to produce an engine/gearbox combination that goes 2-300K with no problem at all in the Vectra 2.0 CDTI- taxi owners love them.

The car Mrs A ran before the Prius was another Octavia - a 2.0 PD 140 model she took from about 15K to 99K in 3 years. At a service about 98K the service people asked if we would like them to check for a "problem" which turned out to be the oil pump failing at 100K plus for the 2.0 - which can either cause the engine to go into "Limp" mode or, er, "beggorah" the engine completely. The cost of the fix was spendy and the offer of the company supplied Prius came up so we changed rides. The new owner of the Octavia fixed it and all is fine for him/her.

Skoda trades on making "Happy Owners" but to be honest the dealer nearest us is carp (as was the last one) so we will be servicing with local independents. As long as they service to the same spec (i.e. OE parts, oil etc.) and are VAT registered in the EU the warranty stands.




And of course having tapped the above the CWNN decided it wants an oil change in 20 days - of course it does, it is 12 months old... :rolleyes:

Any rattles on that new Prius? On Priuschat, many complain of rattles on the gen III, but I wonder if they improved after the 2012 model year.

I'm in the market for a Prius, but I have no tolerance of cabin rattles and creaks. If I could pinpoint the noises and easily eliminate them, I wouldn't mind too much.

Your friends car only needed basic maintenance

the repair lists is not unusual ,if anything its a cheap easy fix , I woulkd be pretty damn happy if that's all my new used car needed.


You should blame the seller of the car he sold in need of those repairs not VW




My tdi does nothing but save me money

In the 'states, diesel is often 15-20% more expensive than petrol.

Pics of the car?

At the moment in my Canadian small City Regular gas is $1.39.9 a liter
Diesel is $1.36.9 a liter , 3 cents cheaper ..,

I sometimes pay 2 or 3 cents more a liter for diesel but that's it.

A failed alternator is not basic maintenance; it is a repair. There is no service schedule for replacing alternators, exhaust flex pipes, and wheel bearings. The alternator was twice the cost and twice the labor charge compared to performing the same repair on an Asian or domestic brand.

Perhaps your experience of owning a VW has adjusted your expectation that these are normal maintenance items instead of irregular failures rarely encountered by brands/models known for good reliability.

While this anecdote alone is worthless, my other friend has owned 2 Jetta NA diesels, and 3 engines (they all burned out for various reasons). Then another friend had a Mk4 Jetta TDI that had something major (was never told what) fail just outside of warranty that cost $6000 to repair.

In all this time, my '96 Subaru Legacy went 240,000 miles with not a single failure of even the smallest component. I raced the thing whenever I was on gravel roads, would speed up for potholes, and bash through the forest. It had every excuse to fail me, and never did.

My TSX only has 100k miles on it, but so far not a single failure of any type. Since owning it, I've changed the oil 4 times and put fuel in it.

User experience will vary with most cars I never heard of the Jetta being a lemon

Your car has its detractors as well

here is just one unhappy owner of a used legacy

1996 Subaru Legacy LEMON - 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX - Ultimate Subaru Message Board

We pay that but in GBP.

The main rattles are from the tailgate and the 'bridge' where the gear lever is.

The tailgate ones are pretty standard and can be removed by adjusting the rubber mounts in the boot. It might mean you have to slam harder though. And they come back.

The bridge can be sorted by forcing the rear end of it upwards and pushing rubber pieces into the gaps.

There is one above the radio but under the speedo. I never found it as I this is a company car so I couldn't take it to pieces. From the web I think it is something in the wiring loom.

There is no cure for the road and engine noise except another type of car. Also no cure for the carp seats. Sorry.

VWs used to be a bit better in terms of quality in this side of the pond...parents had a pair of VWs leased new in 2000 and they bore out the reputation of the day, hit or miss. Dad's Passat was utterly and entirely bulletproof for the 5 years and 60k miles we had it, loaded up as it was in V6 4motion wagon form. My Mom's Beetle 1.8t on the other hand...let's just say they're glad that our dealer had a service department which went way above and beyond.

VW now is really just a toy for those with a bit of money. Your repair bills will be constant and high.

Is 60k miles considered good for not needing repairs? So far as I can tell, looking at the dealer records, all that has been done to my Insight in its 160,000 miles is that it's had the oil, spark plugs, battery and tires changed.

Granted, it's probably noisier than Mrs. A would be happy with.

For a VW, yeah that is pretty good. We had to put the Beetle in three times for warrantee work. Technically the last time it was 200 miles out of warrantee but the folks at the service dept. were kind enough to get it fixed either through goodwill or by falsifying the mileage on the claim lol. Lots of loose trim pieces, a hatch release solenoid that went bad, a busted window regulator, a vacuum hose which mysteriously disappeared, that kind of stuff.

Probably, also not big enough to put her sales demo stuff into when carrying 2-3 other people too. ;) Me I'd love one, I was about a week off buying one last summer...

As tapped earlier Mrs A's previous Octavia ran from 15K to 99K in 3-4 years with nothing other than regular servicing which is impressive, especially the way she drove it :eek:

My main issue is the dealers and service centres here. Luckily under EU law if we use an independent and they service to the same spec (e.g. correct spec oil on the bill, OE spec filters and so on) then the makers warranty runs on. We have a couple of local VAG independents which we used for the previous Skodas we have had and my Audi. Costs haven't been too bad for normal servicing, less than the main dealers though and you know the work has been done.

We luckily didn't need to shop around. Stevens Creek VW Audi was awesome. No idea if they're still as good, a lot can happen in a decade but I'd go back to them in a heartbeat.

Well it has announced the need for fresh oil after 3K miles...

...oh but 12 months old.

I might give it that new oil, or reset the service warning.

I'd follow the schedule for the first couple oil changes on a new vehicle.

In my TSX, the oil change advisory comes on after about 6k miles. I reset it and go 12k before changing.

You should at least adhere to the minimum service interval in the owners manual to preserve the warranty.

What he said.

Agreed, just had a chat with Mrs A and it will go in next Monday - it's too new and nice to scrimp on a small-ish bill.

On the same basis we are doing a "round Britain tour" this summer with the Audi instead of the Octavia - The Audi likes longer runs - it can't match the MPG of the Octavia but has more space for luggage (a week away) and enough stone chips already to not worry about avoiding any more.

The Octavia has one mark on it. Just one.

Arrgh.

Skoda has a good cost-effectiveness overall.

Small update - first tank was 52 MPG which is kind of close to the Prius at 50-ish. The second tank includes a longer journey which resulted in 60+ MPG on the in car display - we will wait and see what the total tank is.

Comfort on this longer journey was rated as not so good - hot weather and furry-ish leather seats.

I'm empathising on the downsides as of course we might swap... :D

As long as you find an independent service centre and avoid the dealers.

My understanding of the VW TDI versus Prius debate is that the Toyotas are great until the traction battery needs replacing, but the warranty on that is 100,000 miles, and better in California-compatible states. I just saw comments about the car holding up well and the dealerships taking good care of the customers. A decade ago, when I met Volkswagon owners, I mentioned I often saw those with one headlight out, and they said that was common with that brand, as well as failed window controls and a few other things. Specific to the TDI, I read that the dealerships routinely told customers they needed new turbos, which was a comparable cost to Prius battery packs, even though it might just be a carbon build-up.

When I had a mechanic look at an HX, he told me how reliable Hondas were, but he wanted a Volkswagon, so he was always fixing it.

I imagine that much of this is attitude. I do not think that opinions would necessarily make sense and that two people might have the same experience, needing the same repairs and so forth, but one would tell you it was still a good car, while the other insisted that it was garbage. Hey, women are crazy, but some of them are lovable anyway, and can you imagine what they think of us?! :D

I have had people rant about how terrible Fords are and have heard the same of Hondas (and Toyotas and sometimes you get Honda versus Toyota). I loved my 1990 Accord and was upset when an elk totaled it. A friend followed me to the recycler in his Accord, which was the same generation. The whole time, he talked about how it was a garbage car, while obviously its owners never took care of it. Then Dad sold me his Focus with 250,000 miles on it and someone took out that car. I dove my brother-in-law's Focus and that ran terribly, but he was hard on cars, and did not take care of them.

Life is complicated, my friends! :)

Volkswagen had a better reputation in my country at that time, altough after they started replacing the EA-827 engine with the newer crossflow engines such as the EA-111 there were more people complaining about carbon build-up in the oil ducts but it was basically because they insisted in use cheaper low-grade oils which were suitable for the older engines but are crap in the newer ones. Regarding the TDI, the most common issue is the timing belt and its tensioner.

Fully agree. By contrast my experience with the same dealers with my Toyota badged but Eastern European made Aygo was very much better.

The oil change indicator light can be changed with vcds.
They after come from the factory set for the gas interval.
For the TDI it should be 10k miles.

The issue in the states is that VW dealer service is lousy.
Make sure to change the oil using the correct spec and the timing belt before 120k miles and you'll be fine.
Ours has 65k and only a rear seat release cable that popped loose.
Well, there was a vacuum hose issue, but that was squirrel caused!

It is going to the local specialist for an oil change and filter this Friday - might as well as the dealer said they had serviced it, but they also said the sat nav was working when it wasn't...

...fixed by me ;)

You know, the stealers.. err.. dealers hardly provide a good service.

Please educate me, I spent two years in Germany, but did not have a car, so it was only when I came home that I found this site.

When I arrived in Germany, the military had some office at the airport and we had a briefing before being sent our various ways. The gentleman told us that Opel was owned by GM.

You say Skoda is VW and Aygo is Toyota?

Is there more of this madness or some reason for it?

I finally bought a sun visor for my Civic (I was so happy to have one!) and their service department had a table comparing their service prices to major chains. I believe their point was that they were competitive, but only on average. It was weird to see that another place charged much more for one service, but much less for another. I believe that they showed $489 for a timing belt replacement. I can only wonder what additional fees were excluded.

People act like the service department at a dealership is the epitome of technical ability, because they are the best of the best of the best, Sir! I would not know, I have never used them!

But often an independent mechanic can perform a better service, and even at a lower price. At a dealership they usually have more brand-specific resources such as softwares, or even some special tools, but having more stuff doesn't mean they're really the best.

There are a lot of specialists here in the UK which have the scanning equipment and other tools for most manufacturers.

Maybe it is a wake up call for VAG (and others) that their prices are so high that it is worth indys investing in the equipment required and setting up for themselves.

One other issue noted with the Octavia is that the cooling fans have run twice when the car has been parked and the engine has been shut off - this usually lasts between 2-4 minutes (estimated). A quick google suggests that this is due to a DPF regen being interrupted - e.g. by the end of the journey. I have VCDS and at some point I'll do a scan and check when it was last done.

Via the same route I've also found out that Hermann, my A6, has a DPF which makes him very "special" - I'll update that thread maybe.

Update - Oil and filter changed and service indicator reset. Oil is indeed new - I wondered as they hadn't started when Mrs A arrived. I might get it done again properly before 13K miles (3k miles now, 10K interval) just to make sure.

The dead fly collection on the front indicates not-eco driven but it has managed 50+ every time anyway.

EDIT - I mean "properly" by getting the engine warmed up so the oil drains fully. I think some of the old stuff will be in there. It isn't over filled which is a blessing.

Going back to old specialist from now on.

If there is nothing on its VIN that could indicate the presence of the DPF, you can get rid of it with some ECM reflashing to overcome the error codes.

Unfortunately that idea is not going to fly.

This also happened when cataclysmic converters were optional instead of mandatory - people had them taken off and then the car would fail its first MOT requiring much £s to refit them.

Luckily Hermann passed in June with his DPF so it must be working OK.

PS Although I think the test might just be that it is present and functioning. The emissions test result will be based on the limits in place when the car was first sold - i.e. it might still pass the emissions test even if the DPF is not at 100%.

But it still sucks to have the DPF.

I wonder if one could make such emission equipment to be modular, so that it could quickly be installed for inspection, and then removed after certification?

Another idea; have the emission equipment look like it's installed, but actually have no filter in place. Then run a tank of biodiesel to pass the inspection.

It's widely done in the big rigs, using emulators to avoid error codes at the ECM due to the absence of the sensors from the DPF and SCR.