new prius test car spotted
 

https://twitter.com/kaokana4/status/...525504/photo/2
final prius gen has been spotted out for testing. super long hood and angled a pillars. toyota is going for the most aero prius ever by far

Well at least it looks like they got rid of the tailfins.

That windshield angle looks excessive to me. I'll assume this picture was taken in Japan and the test driver is about 5'6 or so. Put someone 6' tall in that car and their head will be rubbing on the headliner.

its pretty extreme. im also surprised they are using bigger wheels which usually means worse fuel economy. sure it feels the wheel well but also increases rolling resistance and tire cost

the rear looks like a tesla model 3 rip off. i wonder what would happen if i extended my rear windshield like that and then did a little duckbill lip spoiler versus the big flat spoiler currently on my ioniq and the current prius

Larger diameter tires have lower rolling resistance than smaller diameter tires.

Web quote: Tires with a smaller diameter have a higher rolling resistance with the same inflation pressure, because tire deformation is proportionally greater. The tire is flattened more and is “less round”.

This is one of the reasons why giant wheels / tires are all the range on EVs. This is why BMW had special skinny 19" tires made for the i3.


However larger wheel / tire combos tend to be heavier which increases rotational mass and consumes more fuel when accelerating - which hurts city mileage. As with everything there are tradeoffs.

then why does the ioniq with 15 inch tires get better highway mpg than the 17 inch trims?

also wayne at cleanmpg even did tests and showed that smaller tires make a huge difference in mpg across the board


bigger tires are for better performance and '' looks''. remember, people are hesitant to switching to evs because of the styling factor. thats how tesla took off. they made the first ev that didnt look sissy and weak and cheesy. they made a stylish ev with good long range. no one wouldve bought a 15 inch tire tesla if it meant longer range

Curious if this is actually a "prius". Seems like the prius got more sedan-like or the sedan got more prius-like.
Perhaps next gen will combine the camry and prius and kill off one of the names?

There is a lot more to wheel / tires than just the diameter.

Larger diameter = less rolling resistance
Wider tread = more rolling resistance
Stickier compound = more rolling resistance
Heavier tire = more rotational mass = worse fuel economy.

When BMW had a special wheel tire made specifically for fuel economy they didn't go with 15 inch tires (or 13 or 12 inch) They went with 19 inch tires with the tread width narrower than a 15 that only weighs 16 lbs.

The test car still has a hatch so I'd say it is pretty safe to say it is a Prius.

Prius sales have dropped a lot in the USA but it still sells pretty well in Japan.

The rumors are that the new prius is going to be sportier and a “ coupe” style car and drop the traditional hatchback. They are trying to get buyers interested in the Prius and to make it look better since sales have dropped big time. Even the rav4 hybrid now outsells the Prius hybrid

I'm not at all surprised that the RAV4 hybrid outsells the Prius. The RAV4 is Toyota's best selling vehicle in the USA and the 2nd best selling vehicle in the world. Midsize crossovers are the best selling segment in the USA. Meanwhile sales of cars are in freefall.

I can see Toyota offering a "coupe" style 4-door sedan but I don't see any reason to call it a Prius. We have a Corolla Cross and Corolla Hatch - no reason not to have a Corolla Coupe. The Germans have made sedan, coupe, 4-door coupe, convertible, and wagon versions of their compact offerings.

There is nothing sporty about a Prius - I just don't see Toyota trying to take that angle again. Remember the Super Bowl ad with the bank robbers using a Prius as a get-away car? Toyota tried to talk up the independent suspension in the current generation Prius and call it sporty but nobody believed it and a 121 hp mid-size car with a CVT just is not sporty.


That said - the test car in the picture has a hatch.

Tesla model s also has a hatch trunk. But it’s still a sporty coupe. No one’s calling a model s plaid with a cd of 0.20 a hatchback

Main thing I’m curious about is the new Prius epa numbers. Obviously a slightly better hybrid power train but the lower drag should automatically increase the fuel efficiency. I’m curious to what cd they are aiming for with their final Prius. Realistically I’m going to guess .22 since 20 and 21 are usually with ev cars that can do a true flat bottom and no front grill

Personally I would call the Model S, Prius, and cars like the BMW Gran "Coupe" a liftback. None of them are coupes as they all have 4 doors and by definition a coupe has 2 doors. They also aren't sedans as sedans by definition have a trunk not a hatch.

Beyond idle curiosity I don't see the fuel economy of the new Prius actually matters. Yes, it will be interesting the tricks used to get there but going from 55 mpg to 60 mpg is going to save someone driving the average 14250 miles per year less than 1 gallon of fuel per week.

'coupe'
 

Historically, a 'coupe' is a two-door, hardtop, with no B-pillars. All-glass greenhouse, when viewed from the side.
From the 2nd-gen Prius on, they've stuck with the 'Kamm-back.' It's a component of their efficiency, as was true for both of Honda's Insights.
If they went to a notchback, they'd lose interior volume, and shoot themselves in the foot, aerodynamically.

If they can somehow get their combined epa mpg in the low 60s or even mid 60s, I will be very interested in getting rid of my Ioniq for the new Prius and eco mod it the instant I get it. Since Toyota tends to do better than sticker mpg while Hyundais tend to do worse for some reason.

This is sort of the point I was trying to make in my earlier post. Why would toyota continue to have a prius and camry hybrid if they both look similar, cost similar, and get similar efficiency?

As a halo car and to claim they have the most fuel efficient car on the road?

Also to take advantage of the fact that the general public doesn't know that MPG isn't a linear scale so they see 60 mpg and think that will have significant savings vs the 50 mpg Camry.

Personally I don't see a reason to keep selling the Prius in the USA but if they are going to continue making it for Europe and Japan they might as well send it our way too.

I do find it interesting that the Prius and the Mirai are the only cars that don't have a 2023 version listed on Toyota USA's website. Maybe it is going away or maybe they are going to skip the 2023 model year and go straight to 2024 with a new design.

If it were profitable, why would they skip a year...?

I vote for the same car with different names in different markets. Camry hybrid in US and Prius everywhere else.

I'm not talking about not selling the Prius for a year - just skipping a model year and going directly from 2022 to 2024. Companies do that sometimes when a product launch is delayed. The Audi A3, Acura MDX and Nissan Pathfinder all skipped from 2020 to 2022. Nissan launched the 2022 Pathfinder in February 2021.

Makes sense that they might skip a year, and also introduce more than one model of the Prius, don't they have that already?

https://twitter.com/kaokana4/status/1573854802693525504
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667818070.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667818070.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667818070.jpg

I can't see Toyota doing multiple Prius vehicles. They already tried Prius as a subbrand of hybrids and it didn't work. Then there is the fact that manufacturers are steadily discontinuing car models as consumers shift to crossovers.

Yes, at one time we had the Prius C, Prius, and Prius V. The Prius C was a hybrid version of the Yaris and the Prius V was a wagon version of the regular Prius

'spoiler'
 

I suspect that no kind of spoiler will help the IONIQ. You're at a 'kamm' form already. Elongation of the entire tail is where the money would be. That's what 'Kamm' did.

We will find out next week. The reveal is 16-November

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...ius-confirmed/

2023 Prius reported @ Cd 0.197
 

According to whichcar.com.an./news/2023-toyota-prius
the new Prius has Cd 0.197 ( same as 1996 GM EV1 ).
It's 2-inches less in height.
No mention of frontal area, so, no CdA yet.

Not true, tires with a smaller diameter only have less contact area (resistance) if they are not inflated to a equal weight ratio pressure. Which if you were changing wheels is not something you would miss. In real driving enviroment the net efficiency of smaller lighter wheels is larger so as phase says swapping for smaller wheels whether highway or not is still more efficient

Also using a 5.5j/185mm tire on a regular car pumped up to low contact would have very low grip in wet conditions irrespective of the overall diameter

less wet grip when over inflated, but over inflated tires hydroplane less. fun fact. so pick your poison

What is a[n] equal weight ratio pressure?

The paradigm is a tall, narrow tire such that contact patch is equal, I don't know about the pressure.

The narrow tire will [or at least should] hydroplane less at simlar pressure.

Rubber and aluminum weigh about the same.

Preferably the contact area is not to be a circle. Phase is still correct.

Aluminium is more than twice the density of rubber

Good luck guys

My understading is that the contact patch is an oval. A short, wide tire has a contact patch that is wider than it is longer, good for cornering. A tall narrow tires contact patch is long and narrow, for less rolling resistance.

The Gen V announcement was more focused on power and looks and less focused on price and fuel economy.

The PHEV will net a longer range, not sure if I care at this point

I'm annoyed that Toyota didn't include a 16 kWh battery for the PHEV (Prime) from the beginning because they left federal tax money on the table wasting those credits on an 8.8 kWh battery.

The gen IV should have been what this generation is.

~40 mile EV range is quite good. With a 16 kWh battery (the one in the RAV4 Prime), it could have been closer to 60 miles of range.

That said, I have no idea where the federal subsidy is nowadays. Did the new one supersede the previous one? If so, my understanding is all manufacturers that meet a certain percent of domestic manufacturing and/or assembly now qualify.

The new credit kicks in January 1st, 2023. Companies that hit the cap don't get new credits until 2023. For 2022 the credit is still based on battery size.

The only part of the new law that kicked in for 2022 was the requirement for vehicle assembly in North America. These are the vehicles that meet that requirement:

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/electri...for-tax-credit

This retains the battery capacity provisions of the previous subsidy?

Looks like it's non-refundable, just like the last subsidy, so it favors the wealthy.

Nice to see US manufacturers are no longer penalized for having met their credit limits. A subsidy to the wealth is still dumb though, especially when there's no plan to describe how these massive subsidies will substantially reduce CO2 emissions and how that justifies the spending (or lack of collection, which is essentially the same thing).

The only electric vehicle assembled in [Unitd States [Oregon [Whiteaker Neighborhood]]] that I would consider is not on the list. :confused"

Trikes are considered motorcycles.

My confusion is why such a dumb, regressive tax code would be introduced... except that it's normal to have such idiocy in our governance. There's no attempt to make things better for all citizens; only constituents, and even then usually just the appearance of representing constituent interests. If constituents were better informed, they'd seek results, not rhetoric.

The value no longer varies based on size - anything over 7 kWh gets the credit. The credit is split into two parts:

$3750 of the credit is based on battery assembly. It must be assembled in North America and 50% of the components (by dollar) must be sourced from within North America. That content requirement increases gradually until it hits $100% in 2029.

$3750 of the credit is based on battery minerals. In 2023 40% of the minerals must be sourced OR processed in North America or countries the USA has a free trade agreement. That increases to 80% by 2027

The tax credit is still technically non-refundable but starting in 2024 you can choose to transfer the credit to the dealer and they are required to take the full credit off the purchase price as a point-of-sale rebate. So starting in 2024 buyers no longer have to finance the full amount, wait to get reimbursed, and have the credit dependent on their income. Similar to the current lease loophole but the dealer must give the buyer the full value of the credit.

There is also a cap on the price of the EV. $55K for cars / $80K for trucks or SUVs.

Max GVWR for the credit is 14,000 lbs.

Income limits are $150K single filer / $300K joint filer

There is also a $4000 credit for used EVs. The car must be purchased from a dealer, cost less than $25,000, and be more than 2 years old. Income limits for the used credit are $75K single / 150K joint

There are no caps on the number of new or used credits but the program expires at the end of 2032.

Cd 0.27
 

I just looked at TOYOTA's website.
The most highway efficient LE model is rated at Cd 0.27 according to it's maker.
L= 181.1" ( 4599.94mm)
W= 70.2" ( 1783.08mm )
H= 55.9" ( 1419.86mm )
h= 50.3" ( 1277.62mm )
GC= 5.6" ( 142.24mm )
Af approx. 23.436-sq-ft ( 2.1772- meters-squared )
CdA approx. 6.3277-sq-ft ( 0.5876-meters-squared )
L/H= 3.2397
L/h= 3.6003
L/W= 2.5797
AVE = 3.1399
L/ sq-root of Af = 3.117421

Most 'slender' Prius = higher drag
 

I've compared the new Prius to six other generations. By every metric, the new car has a higher fineness ratio than all others.
If Cd 0.27 is actually accurate, it puts into question, all prior drag reporting.

I just saw an advertisement for the Toyota Crown, looks very similar to this shape, but definitely a different car.
https://www.toyota.com/crown

340 HP on a 2.4L engine plus hybrid drivetrain. 40 MPG. AWD. We're living in the future, and it's awesome.

You can't get all of that in the same car - you have to choose power or efficiency.

The 340 HP 2.4L turbo gets 30 mpg.
The 236 HP 2.5L NA engine gets 41 mpg.