Oil change recommendations?
 

I am planning on a getting my oil changed tonight. I normally go to a Valvoline Instant Oil Change place. My 2000 Honda Civic VP has just over 140000 miles. I have gotten my oil changed about every 3000 miles using conventional oil. But I see so many recommends here for synthetic oil, that I am thinking of giving that a shot. VOIC always recommends Max Life oil since my car has over 75000 miles. I see that Valvoline also makes a Max Life full synthetic oil. Any value to using Max Life over non-Max Life oil?
When I looked up in the owners manual of my car today, I was kind of surprised to see they recommend getting the oil changed every 7500 miles. So I guess following VOICs recommends, I have maybe been going overkill on the oil changes, and making them a little bit richer in the process.

So what I am thinking is going for either Synthetic or Max Life Synthetic, and reducing my oil changes to every 7500 miles. Of course using the 5W30 recommended for my car.

I have been told the engine in my car can last to 500,000 miles. So I try to take care of it. My last Honda (a 1990 Honda Accord) lasted to 235,000 when the valves fried. And I think that was related to it's burning oil that started when the water pump failed a couple years oil. I am still pissed off at the service that DIDN'T replace the water pump when they replaced the timing belt! *&#*!!!!!

Any comments, concerns, or recommendations on my oil change?

i run (motorcraft) synthetic in my DD, but cheap dino-oil in my old truck. a few extra bucks every several thousand miles isn't that bad. but i really don't feel that it makes much difference, i just feel better about it.

01 ford explorer sport, 105,000 miles, synthetic oil/filter changed every 5000. no engine problems other than pcv valve and egr valve (and regular maintenance items, of course).

but, my parents had.....

94 explorer, 298,000 miles, oil changed every 5000, but used cheap walmart 10w30. finally cracked a head (or maybe head gasket), but no other real problems. sold it to a guy that had it running again in 2 days.

Wasn't Honda using 0W20 in 2000?

That Max Life stuff is thicker and will slightly decrease your mileage.

Best thing for mileage would be 0W20 synthetic. Look into the extended interval oils. Go well beyond 7500 miles between changes.

Also, just wondering why anyone who hypermiles would change their oil more than absolutely necessary? Seems counterintuitive to me. Wasting money on oil changes but trying to save money on gas?

I haven't been hypermiling long. Also, if I fry my engine, the cost would far outweigh any fuel savings!

And my owners manual recommends 5W30.

I guess I will skip the Max Life stuff if it is thicker.

I'd do two rounds of Auto-Rx Engine Cleaner with the cheapest API SM oil you can find and follow it up with a real PAO synthetic like AMSOIL, Mobil1, Red Line, or Royal Purple.

Well, based on your other responses (don't want to blow up the engine is a good one!), maybe you should look into the Max Life stuff a little more.

I mean, if the thickness and other crap they put in there helps prevent an oil leak, maybe that makes up for a small decrease in mileage.

BTW, I saw a dynorun once where just switching from 40 weight oil to 30 weight oil on a Civic gained 2 hp. So the weight of the oil makes a measurable difference, but not a huge difference (maybe that was a 2% gain in hp).

Oil change interval depends upon vehicle driving cycles. If you're going to use the 7500 mile interval, you'll not be doing many short trips. The longer trips, say 20 miles, allow the oil to evaporate water condensed in the oil while cooling. High water content is not your friend.

Use regular dino oil and change it at nearly the longest interval that is recommended. Changing a little early isn't a bad idea, but every 3000 miles just costs you more time and money, and creates more waste oil for the shop to heat thier place with in the winter.

****If you really want to know how long you should use your oil, contact an oil analysis lab. It is often done by mail, so it's convenient too. The analysis is often less than $20 and could safely allow you to double your mileage between changes, paying for itsself in less than a year! Plus you aren't doing this blind, you'll have lab results backing up your decision, not some peoples guesses on an internet forum.

Contrary to what others state, I continue to believe that dino oils are so good these days that synthetic only might have an advantage if you have an optimal driving cycle to keep water content way down, and have really excellent (and more expensive) filtration. If you do all that you can still get really long life out of cheaper dino oil. Synthetics are best used in very high performance engines where greater heat and stress demand more consistency and reliability from an oil that what dinos can provide.

Big rigs use dino oil while getting many hundreds of thousands of miles from the engine. They also use filtration down to 1/10 micron. Typical good quality automotive filters go down to 10 micron, cheapies are 20+.

Our generators at work use 100 gallons of oil per change. We have 5 of them. Change them about every 3 years depending on the oil analysis results.

Got off on a topic.
At this point use regular oil if you're not using oil between changes, the maxlife stuff is for engines that burn a little bit.

Are any hypermilers switching to 0W20 synthetic to get that last little 2% mileage increase?

I mean, Honda does it! That's one of the sneaky little things they do to get such great mileage from their cars (along with VTEC, thinner sheetmetal, undersized brakes, mechanical lifters, timing belts, etc.)

Thanks all. I have been reading on the net, and have read everything from switching to synthetic will make your car run better, to that it will start your engine leaking like a sieve. Scary stuff.

I decided to pass on Valvoline Instant Oil Change at least this time around. I made an appt for my car to get an oil change at the local Honda dealer. I will see what they recommend. I think they are actually cheaper then VOIC anyway.

Last time I put 5w20 ford fully sythetic oil in, said it improved FE right on the container! ;)

There is no question that it improves FE slightly.

The question is, is the decrease in protection worth the increase in FE?

I think that both Ford and Honda have been recommending 0W20 for some time now. I have not heard of any rash of early engine failures.

I'm running yellow bottle Pennzoil ($2/qt) 5W20 in an old Saturn with 130,000 miles. It seems fine. If it blows up I'll let everyone know.

As far as I know Honda has only put 0w20 in the Insight, and has moved to 5w20 in nearly everything else. Don't think it's universal yet.

Awesome. Thanks for being a gunea pig!

Have you noticed much of a FE improvement since the switch?

On the newer cars, honda recommends 5w20 and so forth. On the older cars, 5 or 10w30. As for my cars, I use Mobil 1 synthetic without the high mileage crap. I use Fram Toughguard oil filters and change my oil every 3000 miles, too. I haven't had a problem with leaking. I've heard that the detergents in the synthetic oils clean out the gunk that builds up from the non-synthetic oil. These days, there is just as much detergent in either type of oil. I have seen better mileage with the synthetic. The more you keep the oil in the engine, the more chance it has at accumulating 'crap' in that time. By the way, I have a 97 Civic, an 05 Accord, and a 92 F150. No problems yet.

I do like that Valvoline Max Life Synth/Conv blend. Good stuff.

I don't like the Valvoline oil change places though. I've heard too many horror stories.

Some people place more emphasis on the conservancy of resources, I'm sure.

Keep in mind that a dirtier oil will be significantly thicker, though I have NO IDEA how it will lessen MPG. The closer the oil's similarity to its original state, the higher the mileage.

I have always gone with Castrol, and @ 180,000 miles the recommended 5-30 still works just fine. And I change based one how dirty the oil is not really on mileage, usually anywhere from 3-5k. Your oil is your engines blood, ide rather err on the safe side then try and push it ya know.

Yeah, I'm more on the "save money" page than "save the environment", but that's important too.

Any way you cut it, changing your SYNTHETIC oil at 3k is wasteful. I'm wondering if oil analysis is the way to go for someone that concerned with his oil. I mean, if the $20 cost of the analysis saves one oil change, you've made your money back and then some.

And if I were doing oil analysis, I would TOTALLY try 0W20. That would ensure that its not doing major damage.

I've seen some long term tests with Amsoil and Mobil 1 showing the oil was still good at 12-15k miles. There was a guy with a Camaro that sent the samples in at regular intervals even.

If you keep the oil in, just change the filter every 3k miles and you should be fine. The scariest thing about long interval oil changes for me is how the filtration abilities drop off over time if you don't change the filter. This will depend on what type of filter (i.e. depth type don't clog up quite as bad over time, but don't as high filtration capabilities early on).

I ran Amsoil to 20,000kms in one of my GTs years ago. The bearings looked brand new at 225,000kms after taking the engine apart to do some head work for turbo.

For Dino oil, I prefer Castrol.

If you do some google searching, you'll come accross lots of oil filter studies and oil studies to reference.

I don't have good mpg data prior to the 5W20 oil, although it's been in the family for all 133,000 miles, mostly driven by my kids who have grown up and moved on to their own cars so it's back to me.

Personally I would be very surprised if 5W20 made a difference big enough to measure accurately without a chassis dyno and controlled environment.

The last 8 tanks (approx 330 miles each) have ranged from 33 to 36 mpg (it's an automatic). Using the AC is a much bigger variable on FE for a small engine car I believe.
Back in May there were days when I used no AC, then in June, AC on the way from work, now in July AC both morning and afternoon.

I always cringe when I see somebody on the net write "I put in XXX oil and got 2 mpg more"
I guarantee that any auto company would do that tomorrow if they could prove it on the EPA test.

Ummmmm.... why do you think that Honda and Ford use 20 weight oil? Mileage and emissions. ULEV status is in part due to 20 weight oil.

Honda does make compromises in order to get that awesome gas mileage. 20 weight oil is one compromise.

You know, the first couple of oil changes on my Acura Integra, driving out of the oil change place, the car felt stronger.

I don't doubt that switching to 20 weight oil makes a measurable but very small difference to fuel economy. 2 mpg sounds high, though.

As oil is used by an internal combustion engine, it picks up wear debris, unspent fuel and other contaminants (dirt in the air) and loses it's ability to lubricate. When tested, it's coefficient of friction begins to rise.

So, running oil an extra thousand miles or two may hurt your fuel economy (along with promoting engine wear).

Okay, I took may car to Honda this morning and had the oil changed. I asked the guy about what kind of oil they use, and he said Mobil. I asked about synthetic oil, and he said they don't recommend them. He said they have them for one or two cars that are supposed to use them (he thought the S2000). But he said for most cars, it's just a waste of money. I notice on the invoice they used 5W20 oil.

One thing they did though was to let air out of my tires. I had them at 38psi cold pressure. Now I have to ecoinflate them back 38psi (AAA says hyperinflating your tires is bad, so I ecoinflate them).

I'm not an engine expert but FWIW.
If you are pulse and gliding using big throttle openings and low rpm you are loading the bearings in your engine more than the average person. Also oil pressure at low rpms can be lower than at "normal" rpms. Plus if you are going to thinner oil that is less able to keep bearing surfaces apart you might have a recipe for trouble. You are creating the toughest environment for the oil to work at.
Also the first number in oil weight tends to be the base oil weight and the second number is achieved through additives which can break down leaving you basically running with the base oils weight. So your 0W20 may be just 0W0 after some amount of miles.

So 0W20 oil run for a many miles at high load, low rpm situations may result in scuffing a bearing which could be a career ending injury for your engine.

I second the oil analysis to find out for sure how the oil is doing over a longer change interval, just to be safe because you'd have to save alot of money on gas and oil changes to pay for any type of oil related engine work.

Ian

Believe it or not, engine wear and friction goes up when you first change the oil. So you don't want to change it too often.

Various studies show this, but this is the only one I find right now.

Valvetrain Friction and Wear Performance with Fresh and Used Low-Phosphorous Engine Oils - Tribology Transactions

Re 0w20 oil, why not give some room for degradation and use 0w30?

Most engines, when the oil is changed at reasonable intervals, will outlast the other parts of the car. This is getting to be like the "eggs are good for you/eggs are bad for you" argument. An apple a day keeps the doctor away, but eat too many and you'll get stomach or colon cancer.

Change your oil to extend the life of your engine, or change it if you want to damage it.

excellent observation
but remember there are other forums where 20,000 OCD afflicted folks argue argue over parts per million results from their oil analysis.............:eek:

Zinc / phosphorus content of recent oils?
 

Hi, all !
I have learned recently the EPA has decreed the zinc content of auto motor oils must go...due to the poisoning of cat. elements ( ye ol' lead in gasoline argument, remember?). This zinc compound ( zinc di-something) is an EP (extreme pressure) additive ; without it, aftermarket cam grinders are noting scuffing and scoring of lifter/ cam lobe interfaces...they are "upset"!
Have you noticed the oil ads on TV, lately? They no longer tout "anti-friction" qualities...but have emphasized "cleaning abilities". Like...Clean engines dying early is preferable to "dirty" old-timers, yes?
There IS a way out of this dilemma...buy fleet oil. NAPA sells their own brand of fleet ( truck) oils ... cheaper than the brand-name stuff; I use their 15W40 stuff.I don't worry about the tiny "0 W 0" MPG benefits...the price ain't too bad, either. Other generic brands are out there, I'm sure.
Also, the price of GM's EOS (engine assembly lube) has tripled lately! Any connection? EOS , formerly Engine Oil Supplement ( now changed just prior to the feds cracking down on the wild claims of the oil additive folks) , is laced with this zinc-based compound. Hmmm....
I'm sure Google knows about these moves ... check it out. Spread the word? :confused: -whitevette

Amsoil does state their oils are supreme and can run for longer time periods with the proper filtration...one way to compat expenses (for a DIY'er) is to drain a quart and then add a quart (or so) every 3-5k miles along with changing the filter. This would keep the oil quality pretty consistant whilst being cheaper than a full blown oil change.
Amsoil is expensive, but lots of other companies say they can go for longer intervals too. I've got Napa 10w30 in my Accord now...but I'm going to get Amsoil for the engine and tranny next time...

My daily car is a '88 Ford Escort and currently has 479,000+ miles and never been rebuilt. It currently uses a quart of oil about every 1000-1200 miles. I have always used conventional oil and changed the oil every 3,000-4000 miles most of the time, although there have been a few times when I would be busy and it would go 5,000-8,000 (probably no more than 10 times during its lifetime) miles between changes. I'll be using conventional oil for a long time yet since I have about 20-25 cases on hand that I purchased before the price of oil went through the roof and I bought it on sale.

My Honda was generally ready for more 10w-30 conventional at about 5000 miles - based on the "color of the oil on my finger" test. It too had a factory reccomendation of 7500.

I always notice an EXTREAM drop in FE when its oil change time. At 160,000 it uses practically none of the Mobile 1 Synth that i put in it. I can tell its time when the engine lacks power and FE. Now about 5-6k. Four and a half new quarts plus filter and the FE goes back to 36+. Right now getting about 31!!! I'm pretty sure any wear on the engine is happening now.

hmmm....
 

Hmmm.... Getting oil analysed for 0W20 comes AFTER you use it, yes? And if it shows damage, how do you undo what your analysis shows? It seems to me the tail is wagging the dog....:eek:

$ talks...
 

It seems you are changing every 5 or 6 K miles... and your Mobil 1 costs how much? :eek: Where is your gain? I'm not with you ... I use fleet oil (NAPA) for trucks 'cause it has zinc compounds in it (EP additive)... since EPA mandated all auto oils remove the zinc compounds...because that was damaging the converter element(s). Cheap, too.... :thumbup:

Howdy,

I'm due for an oil change pretty soon and I called my mechanic and asked his advice about what kind of oil I should use. I have a 97 Honda Civic CX automatic. He said first off that synthetic oil is much more expensive (though it will last a lot longer) and that going to 0W20 is really only for hybrids because it's so thin. He said 5w20 is really the thinnest I should go. He guessed that the manual asks for 10w30.

I'm a little disappointed that my P&G is not gaining me much more MPG so I'm looking for additional ways to boost it.

HHINLA

I've used various brands of conventional 10W40 and various brands of oil filters in my '88 Escort with oil change intervals usually at 3-4K miles and filter every other oil change. My theory on oil changes is that a few extra quarts of oil is much cheaper that an engine overhaul. There have been a few times in its lifetime that it went 5-8K between changes when I'd be busy. Last time I changed the oil I had let if go about 7500 miles on each of the 2 previous oil changes and left the filter on for both oil changes, when I changed the filter I cut it open to see what was in it and it wasn't but probably 10-15% blocked. It has 481K+ miles on it now and has never had any type of oil related engine problems. For that matter it's never had any engine problems at all. It currently uses a quart of oil about every 1000-1200 miles. I'm not using high mileage oil in it. Maybe when it hits 1,000,000 miles I'll consider it. LOL

Suggest you consider TufOil additive to your oil change. Can't post links just yet so you'll have to look it up for yourself!