Open discussion on using TC-W3 oil as an additive
 

Starting a new thread from another additive thread.
THis thread will specificlly address TC-W3. Please don't bring up other additives. Simply start another thread.

Several other posters have presented a lot of information on this item.

Originally Posted by Prophecy99



Best Additive for Your Car? Pennzoil Marine 2 Stroke Oil - Maxima Forums
LS1 forum:
Been testing

Pretty much it cleans out your engine and helps make up for the problems created from ethanol blended fuels. Over at the maxima forum guys are extremely critical and it actually appears to be generally accepted.

I didnt post a new thread because it's not %100 for mpg gains, but it sure can't hurt performance aka mpg.

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quoted from WESTERNSTAR CRS

I did a quick read on the LS1 forums - 51 pages - wow!

Quick check on BobIsTheOilGuy:


Pennzoil TC-W3 Full Syn - WM - Bob Is The Oil Guy

I am not an additive evangelist or regular, but use them from time to time. Lucas UCL or Chevron Techron. Never store brand. But maybe only 3 or 4 times a year.

If I can find this Pennzoil synthetic TC-W 3 2 stroke marine oil locally, and find some sort of bottle laying around to give me accurate dosage, I will be part of your test fleet. I have no UG or SG yet, but I have OEM avg fuel econ, plus my calcs at every fill up.

My MPG is seeming to be steadier now - cold weather coming though. But, I will add data FWIW to your new thread if you set one up.

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Ok let's get started!

As a result of reading the LS1 forum several months ago (approx. 6), approx. 5 months ago I started using 1 oz of Walmart TC-W3 for each 5 gallons gasoline. At about the same time, I also increased the tire pressure to the maximum listed on the sidewall of my tires, and started using some of the coasting and brake-avoiding concepts on this website (ecomodder). The combination of those things has increased my MPG by 19.52%.

As to the TC-W3, my engine runs more smoothly; and this was a very smooth engine to begin with (2006 Infinity G35).

I intend to keep using TC-W3 unless/until there is a reason not to.

beau, is that G35 a auto or 6speed?

I'll give it a try, will go with super tech brand, need some for the 2-strokes anyway. Most of the 2 stroke oils have fuel stabilizers build into them already so good to add to all the gas that may set in the garage a while.

EDIT: I'll put it in Pen's Impala as well for a blind test, comparing FE this year to same time last year. Different tires ect.. on other cars for a year to year comparison.

6 speed. I love this car. I bought it in December 2007 after someone turned it in after a 1 year exec lease. Then it had 12,800 miles; now it has 56,000 miles.

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Thanks for starting this.

OK, my starting point will be January 1st, 2013

I am gonna run my Lucas UCL in wife's Chrysler T&C van and my Maxx for December, to get rid of it. I will use empty Lucas bottle for measure and dispense of TC-W 3.

Car #1:
Tink's Van is a 2008 T&C with 3.8. V6, about 60k miles.

She does not hypermile, thinks my pizza pans on my wheels are bizarre, and generally will be a blind subject. I will offer to fill her gas for her starting Jan. 1. (Christmas present I will say) ;)

With her driving style, this eliminates any eco friendly driving techniques to account for any change in MPG. It will take a while to get a trend line, due to her style, and the weather in Detroit. I keep Full Synthetic 5W-30 in the van, and it eats oil, I guess this engine is known for it. Eats front brakes too. Her driving style mixed with undersized rotors.

So I will keep tabs on mileage and oil consumption on the van, using the 1 oz to 5 gallon ratio.

Car #2:
Blue Maxx will get same treatment. Results may be skewed (hopefully for more MPG) when I put on Pizza Pan wheels on prior to the New Year.

Notes:
I will not be doing any planned, out of the way, testing for this. If I do any testing, maybe it will be for coastdown after the pizza pan wheels are done and I have good weather.

But my goal is to attempt to see if we do this to a blind, non-involved, typical driver that has mostly city driving to work and shuttling kids around, and we have a long enough trend line to smooth it out, will we see something of an improvement?

Blue Maxx hopefully will take the treatment good also. Although with pizza pans, and me asking for an Ultra Gauge for Christmas, starting the TC-W 3 should only help, even if it flaws my testing a bit, by combining mods at the same time? Oh well.

My wife's numbers will be the one I am most curious about...

I will start on the Kia after my tires arrive this week.
I want to run the one size up tires for a week or so to get a full tank test.

My tanks are pretty predictable. I commute 28 miles each way and it takes about 50 minutes each way. then drive about 20-50 miles on the weekend.

Ok whats the mixture we are testing?

seem that from the other links 1 oz to 5 gals is optimal

Although I don’t recall what the ratio is for diesel, I have read several diesel forums in which users use TC-W3 as a lubricant to increase lubricity of low sulfur diesel fuel. Just an FYI.

There was one study which assessed lubricity affect in diesel fuel. This study used standardized testing and TC-W3 faired very well, whereas MMO actually reduced lubricity in those tests.

I filled up the lincon and added a small 6oz bottle of 2-stroke oil to its gas, since I usually dont put many miles on this car my self it should be a good A-B-A test subject.

I tried this for a while, but mixing oil is lame and takes a fair amount of time. the results didnt show up in the 3-5 tanks i tried it on...i think its a solution looking for a problem

I am surprised that mixing the oil takes you much time. Using my small glass pirex mixing vile and a long funnel, it takes me about 60 seconds.

Re no results; some who wrote into the LS1 foum said the same thing; they got nothing, while others report modest gains.

Did you notice any difference in idle or engine smoothness?

I have been using it for a couple years now. IMO, any fuel economy gains are just an extra, as I use it as a fuel system and valve lubricant and cleanser.

I keep 3-4 2oz bottles in my car. When I fill up I round to the nearest 5gal increment and put in either 1/2 a bottle or a full one as appropriate. It took me a minute or two to fill the bottles from the gallon jug of oil and only a few seconds to dispense at the pump.

I haven't seen anyone write about it before, but I imagine it would be a viable substitute for lead in old engines as well. I plan to use it in my old vehicles ('68 Chevy pickup and '67 Mustang) that don't have hardened valves seats. However, I put so few miles on those, it will be hard to see any effect.

Been doing it for 3-4 years on my powerstroke diesel usually every second tank. I cant comment on the FE, but I am doing it for lubricity anyway.

A man after my own heart! love the old mustangs!

Onboard for the Outboard
 

After reading several comments, it appears as if it doesn't cause any major problems, very few minor complaints, several positive remarks, and variable responses for FE.

The plan is to first use the Integra as the testbed for monitoring issues and any noticeable trends, at 1oz per 5 gallon (or approx 2.3oz for a full, 13.2-gallon tank). I suppose the only empirical data I can post is FE. The rest will be observations, taken as impartially as possible.

If it seems to work well, then a single-blind test is planned for the TSX (my Wife fills that one sometimes, so I'll have to add it in estimated quantities, from the 17.1 gallon capacity if I miss it). FE is tracked, but it also has a noticeable vibration at idle -- not necessarily rough, but enough to note. I drive the car from time-to-time, and would attempt the same impartiality. It is due for a tune-up, so it should be a good candidate. New tires with alignment will require couple of cold-weather fills to round-out variability. I may select a spark plug to photograph "before and after" conditions.

Otherwise, I can't think of any other data points that are easily tracked...

I look forward to some testing again!

RH77

darcane & Duffman, you haven't had any trouble passing smog after running the 2-stroke mix?

No, but I don't think I have quite as strict of standards to worry about. Our emissions check for OBDII cars is just checking the gas cap and connecting to the OBDII port. If the ECM doesn't report any codes, you should be a pass here.

If you are concerned, stop using it a tank or two before the smog check.

No differenece in smoothness, that was my main reason for trying it actually.

as far as time, i have to carry around a funnel, oil, and measuring device...then i need a clean way to store it in the vehicle. to me, it just wasnt worth it...perhaps i need to try it for a longer time period?

No smog where I live. But running TC3W is very popular on the diesel forums, some guys must be running it in those areas.

Here is the diesel additive lubricity test I referred to earlier:

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTech...itive_test.pdf

Thanks for that, that is very interesting.

TCW3 oil is one of the better performers (not in the top tier though) and certainly a very good value. I do wonder how it does in lower doses though and how well this translates as a gasoline additive. Their testing has it at 1oz per 1.5 gallons rather than the 1oz per 5 gallons that is typically recommended for gasoline engines.

Also intriguing is that MMO came up as no statistical difference in lubricity. Now, there may be other reasons for using it, but lubricity was my primary concern, so I'll stick with the TCW3.

For the purpose of this test, the ratios were intended for diesel - even still - I am assuming there is some positive correlation between the results of this test (the addition of TC-W3 lubricty being a net improvement in lubricity) and a similar test if it had been run with gasoline (and the reduced TC-W3 to gasoline ratio). It seems, if nothing else, that TC-W3 does not appear to reduce gasoline libricity.

But I do not have definative information to back that assumption up.

The study does include some other products (with a higher improvement in lubricity) that appear to be suitable for either diesel or gasoline.

are ya'll using synthetic or reg??

Walmart brand Super Tech - Regular

I could not locate the synthetic pennzoil. At this dillution level, LS1 forum thinks it does not matter for what we need it for?

Walmart brand Super Tech - Regular

just look on the internet, the synth was $30+.......regular was $5.

makes sense w/ the deluting

Same here.

For less than $10/gallon, it's pretty cheap too.

I'm not sure how the results of using 2 stroke oil in gasoline engines is going to be quantified. Use in diesel fuel is well tested, and TC-W3 is so-so as a lubricity additive, but what on earth would the benefit be in gasoline engines? It will likely reduce octane, and at the low levels being tested, the very low lubricity of gasoline is likely not affected (not that extra lubricity is necessary).

Post results. I am curious to read more than anecdotes about smoother idling, you know to save fuel you should not be idling much anyway, right? ;)

I tried it in one tank in my truck. MPG immediately dropped. Gave the gallon to friend who works on power equipment.

I am a skeptic as well, here was our starting point...
 

This first post here lists the info you are asking about, in terms of the 'why':

TC-W3 Testing on the LS-1 Forums

The good thing is that this LS1 forum has a long track record of approx. 2% to 5% MPG increase. And that was basically side effect for this particular LS1 forum. But, that gets into the margin of error for home testing for sure.

The good thing that this EM thread is that we use an off the self product that is inexpensive and is not being hawked by a member with only sales motives. So it is cheap and easy to test for us, or at least try it instead of the other more expensive things like Lucas UCL or MMO that we may be purchasing every so often anyway.

I am using my unsuspecting wife's van as test vehicle, to discount any mods or hypermiling. It burns oil, and maybe it will help seal it better.

I hope to see an MPG increase, but if I see her van running nice and not burning as much oil, that is also a positive for me. So I plan on being as scientific as I can.

But, this is why it is an open discussion, vs. a very specific test; so people can try it out for our own reasons, and report experiences, anecdotal, scientific, or otherwise, and others can make of it what they want from our experiences

Hope that helps explain this thread. No one has skin in this game, like some other threads, pushing expensive fuel additives. So it seems to encourage more honest dialouge I have found.

Thanks for your interest!

nicely put.
I think we all realize that ABA testing is VERY difficult(unless your a lab) with this type of product.
SO we are hoping to try to document as much as possible and let the chips fall.

True for us, but (in my pending plan), the use of a blinded "Subject", with non-Ecodriving habits, could help with statisical power. In addition, could a rough idle be a sign of an engine's overall operating efficiency (incluing non-idle)? Only a hypothesis. There is a lot of uncharted territory here in which to explore.

Very well said. We seem to be using different manufacturers, retail/wholesale outlets, and really trying to keep a clear, Scientific mind about it. None of us seem to have a financial stake in it's sales/usage. Whatever is reported can be judged by the reader.

Product and Implementation:

I found Pennzoil Marine Synthetic Blend at Bass Pro for $8/quart (gallons are also availalbe). If this is the same Pennzoil product as mentioned, check with stores that sell watercraft if you're having trouble finding a variant.

As for mixing, I have an old squirt bottle with measured lines -- so I add 3oz, seal the opening, put it in a ziploc bag with a paper shop towel, and squirt it down the filler tube at the pump -- then re-close the lid, zip up the empty bottle/towel and toss it in the back for later. I went with 0.7oz more than planned due to the approximate amount left as viscous residue that did not completely empty from the bottle.

52 miles is too early to tell anything regarding results.

tjts1 -- Yes, it looks humorous, but perhaps humor us? I appplaud skepticism -- but in this care there is plenty of discussion with possible benefits, some ad-lib testing, and a prime situation for proper experimentation here (especially additives, which are constantly debunked, well before they get here). Any supporting documentation for the causual pic's implications? I personally think it's fun to test mods -- this caught my eye since it doesn't take significant time to implement/document and presents with low risk based on background info. It's been a while since I contributed to a good test of anything FE-related, so I decided, "why not?"

Unless there is documented, repeatable, un-biased testing showing either good/bad or solid commentary (from Chemical Engineers / experts, high-level powertrain experts, and the like), then it seems cheap and easy-enough to try. The diesel fuel additive test shows an above-average lubricity example for this compound (and relatively inexpensive), which provides another citation of reference.

If it does nothing at all for us (or worse) at least we'll have some supporting documentation and hopefully rationale for further testing of this and similar products. Continuing the ability to add options to the list of EcoMods is why a lot of us do this. Trust me, I only get "paid" in fuel savings (and hopefully a better enviroment). As far as time: it's volunteer work for a good cause (for whatever the reason people come here).

RH77

See #31. FE will drop.

That is presumptuous. After over 5 months of continued use and very close monitoring, not only has my FE not dropped, it has increased.

YMMV

I looked at the LS1 thread, but with 50+ pages I didn't get very far. But right out of the gate the OP states 2%-5% better mileage without any data or methodology. That's a fairly substantial claim given the oil added is merely 0.15% of the fuel.

Mileage data tank to tank varies more than that for me, and even more given seasonal changes, so I think proof of that sort of claim is going to require very rigorous documentation, at least to get any credibility here.

What is the rationale for the fuel efficiency increase? Do gasoline fuel injectors spray more effectively with a little bit of lubrication? Or is there some sort of chemical effect that shunts this thread into unicorn territory?

tj,
we have clearly stated what we are doing.
you have not. twice.

that makes you the (uni-corn)butt.
the one thing on ecomodder that we all agree on, is that the person who dosent listen but continues to spew out crap is the loser.

cheers!

We have noted your feelings.....please refrain from crapping on the thread.

With such slight claimed increases you are going to need better control over your subject. How will you control fuel brand/octane? Ambient temperature variations? Vehicle condition?