Overheating problem.
 

I'm going to make a dedicated overheating thread as I need help. I don't know what to do at this point.

Things I have tried:

Coolant flush.
Thermostat replacement.
Block test (came up fine).

I'm out of ideas. The coolant flush made my situation worse. I use to be able to put around town all day with no problems at all, and now just going to my friends house, which I have done a dozen times in the insight, it overheated.

Who did the block test? Sometime they wont show up and then all of the sudden it shows up bad. I had a cobra like that.

I did, I did it 3 times to make sure.

Did you bleed the cooling system after the flush-thermostat? I posted in the other thread I thought it was the radiator. A radiator shop can test it for hot spots in the radiator.

regards
mech

I replaced the thermostat at the same time I did the flush. And Yea Ill have to find one out here. It's fine until I have to climb a hill, then it starts to heat up extremely fast.

My radiator was full of dirt and road dust, kept overheating on hill climbs. Try getting a car wash spray up close. Oh yeah I had tried everything also... I felt SO stupid!

new radiator
 

How old is the radiator? I replaced mine with a larger one one from Ebay a couple of weeks ago. This was easy to do and the change has made a major difference. The 15 year old original had become a thin smashed up shell that wasn't doing anything. Also check the size of your grill blocks, as the venting is especially important when going up hills.

I don't have a grill block. Anyway, can you give me a link to the bigger radiator? When I get home I'll burp the system again, and take pics of my radiator so you guys can see what kind of shape it's in.

Does the heater work? If it doesn't its the water pump. Is the fan coming on? If the top hose from the radiator is hot you can know the thermostat is good.

This is the one I got, on a bid for 55.99, however you will need a different one for the insight.

I should take a photo of the old one before tossing it in the trash.

Heater works awesome. And Yea the top hose is hot as well as the bottom hose.

How close is the condenser to the radiator on the drivers side? Or is it touching / pushed against the radiator? I don't recall what the spec is, but I think if 2 coolers are too close together it kills air flow.

I'm eating right now, I'll go look and take a pic when I'm done, 10-15 mins at most.

Omg I think that's the problem /facepalm. The previous owner told me that he left it on a hill and forgot to put the e-brake on, the car got away from him and ended up at the bottom of the hill against a telephone pole... Just... Look at the pics below /facedesk 100x.

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/7935/LlAo5e.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/8498/i4ZCJP.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/9613/xXMCCh.jpg

What's going on in the second pic? Kinda looks like a damaged induced, lower condenser block situation

Like I said, it rolled down a hill into a pole.

Top and bottom hose both hot= radiator not removing enough heat due to restricted cooling passageways in the radiator. The misalignment show in your photo will not cause the overheating your describe.

Also any time you open up the cooling system there is a very specific bleeding procedure.

regards
mech

Here is a youtube video of the bleeding procedure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy20RzJ4sQg

regards
mech

Yea I followed that procedure to the T. I just burped the system again and a ton of air bubbles came rushing up the second I turned the car on. I think I'll just replace the radiator to rule that out.

Don't confuse a proper bleeding procedure with a bad radiator diagnosis. They are not related. You can put a brand new radiator in the car and not bleed it properly and it will still overheat.

Keep opening the bleeder until you get nothing but liquid coolant, That COULD fix the problem. The dealership replaced the water pump bypass hose on my Riviera. It was running hot until I took it back and they bled it until it had no air pocket and it ran cool.

regards
mech

I just took the car out for a spin after I burped the system, and it stayed 203F the entire time with the occasional bump to 204.8, but never stayed there for more then a second, when previously, it stuck there for a while. I took it up the steepest hill around here, which is pretty steep.

The first night I got the insight, I took it up the same hill and it stayed at 206.6 the entire time. This run, stayed dead at 203, and with that being said, it was hotter tonight then the night I tested it.

Tomorrow when I go to my friends house we will see how it does. It's supposed to be hotter tomorrow then today.

Check the coolant reservoir cap. The system is pressurized and a bad cap can cause the symptoms you are seeing. Not likely, but one more thing to check. I had a problem with a car I couldn't get to cool after a minor front end collision. Burped the hell out of it, new thermostat, cleaned it. finally replaced the radiator and it worked great. 150k miles on it and I think the "bump" dislodged some crud or damaged it internally.

I should do this when it's fully cool right? So I don't suck any air into the system?

Is 206 over heating? I dont know about my cts, but my old intrepid wouldn't even flip the fans on until 215 iirc.

I don't think it will suck air, but you dont want to get BURNED. Wait until it is down to warm after maybe 15 min and slowly release. It should still be able to hear the pressure release.
Maybe someone with more experience than I can comment

I think OEM for the 00 insight is 172 to 192, about the same as the civic, so I think 206 is too hot for just starting to drive. What temp does the fan come on? It comes on at 206 on the civic.

207 the fan comes on from what I was told. And 203 is about cruising speed for my insight. My civic cruised around 206 and got as hot at 212 on my climb to my job and the ride home.

Also, you guys have to remember the ambient temp out here is 99-104.

To know you have the system bled properly.
Engine cold.

Fill the radiator to the top and the recovery bottle to the middle between the hot and cold marks.

Run the engine until it gets hot, then bleed with the cap on and tight.

Repeat this process until you get no more air out of the bleeder.

The level in the recovery bottle will go up as the engine gets hot, but what is most important is the level in the recovery bottle should GO DOWN as the engine cools. When there is an air pocket in the system the coolant level in the bottle will not go down as the engine cools, because the air pocket is preventing the cooling system from pulling coolant from the bottle as the coolant cools off and the coolant contracts.

If there is any doubt, bleed again, as I said earlier, until you get no more air.

Then, if you still experience overheating, the radiator is your problem. To confirm this, you will have little difference in top and bottom hose temperatures, which means the radiator can not remove enough heat from the coolant to keep the car cool.

When the system is working properly, with normal capacity in the radiator, it should stay in the normal operating range even in ambient temperatures 20 degrees higher that you have locally. The additional capacity is designed in the system and you don't read about manufacturers denying warranty claims in Phoenix Arizona or telling buyers they can expect their engines to melt.

regards
mech

regards
mech

Wait, do I heat up the engine with the radiator cap off, then put it on and bleed the system?

Also, once again, thank you for your help. If you wanna call me and explain this to me instead of trying to type it lemme know haha.

Absolutely not. Cap must be on and tight before you start the engine. That pressurizes the system, as it warms up, to help the bleeding get the air pocket out. It will NOT work if you leave the cap off and as the coolant heats up it will overflow with the cap open.

regards
mech

Ok that's what I figured. I'm at work right now, so I'll check it when I get home and do as you said exactly.

Never let the recovery bottle level get below the minimum or it will suck air into the engine when it cools off and you get to start the process, from scratch, all over again.

Run the heater on max heat to make sure their are no air pockets in the heater core during warm up. When you can not get any more air out of the bleeder you are done. It could take several cold-hot cycles before you get no air and I like to check it after a while to make sure I got all of the air out.

regards
mech

Fun stuff... Yea I'll make sure it never reaches near the bottom. I'm gonna check the recovery bottle level the second when I get home, when it's hot, note the level, take a picture. Then when I get up I'm going to go check it cold and see if it dropped. Even if it did, I think I'll burp the system again anyway just to be sure there is nothing in there.

Oh also, I'm going to check both the radiator hoses to make sure one isn't hotter then the other.

Check the recovery bottle when you leave work. You could carry a small container of coolant to top off the radiator and recovery bottle. Of course, in those hot temperatures I would not run the heater :eek:.

Bleed when you get home, then let it cool and top off again. Never run it with the cap off unless you are checking for proper thermostat operation and opening temperature, which you have already done when you replaced the thermostat.

regards
mech

Problem is I'm on a 4% slope here at work, so I can't tell where my recovery bottle is at exactly.

And 90% of the time on my way home from work the past, 3 weeks I have used the heater, it gets down in the 50's at night (that's cold, for me at least).

I will burp it when I get home though before I go to bed.

Use the heater, it helps to get any air circulated out of the system. The absolute best way to get it completely bled is to drive the car on your commute and use the commute to avoid running the engine unnecessarily.

The recovery bottle cares not about a 4% slope. Check to see that the coolant is filling the recovery bottle when you stop with the engine hot, at your destination The bottle usually has a cold and hot mark. As long as you check it consistently cold and hot you know the level and if it has changed through several cycles (cold-warm).

When the changes are exactly the same and you can't get any more air out of the bleeder, youre finished with bleeding.

If you open up the system, anywhere except at the cap when cold, you get to start the bleeding process all over again.

regards
mech

Wait so I don't even open the recovery bottle when cold once I'm done bleeding air? Also, my recovery bottle only has a 'min' and 'max' line. Nothing in between.

You do not need to remove anything to check the recovery bottle or to bleed the system, except to open the bleeder. Only open things when the engine is cold or you could get burned badly by scalding hot water, a real danger when you have a big air pocket that gets super hot then gets hit with colder water and you have a geyser of scalding water blowing out of the radiator and all over you.

YOU WILL ONLY DO THAT ONCE!

I have'nt

regards
mech

So I just got home from work, and before bleeding I thought I would feel the radiator hoses. I touched the bottom one and I could grab it and hold it with my hand forever if I wanted to, it was barely luke warm. I touched the top one and had to apply ice to my hand, and it still hurts. My dad, who has tough as hell hands, couldn't even touch it for more then 1/4 of a second. What does this mean?

Forgot to add, car did not overheat on way home from work.

It means you should keep bleeding it until it has no air. I would call the hot top and luke warm bottom hose working right, but KEEP BLEEDING. I could hold my hand about 5 seconds on 185 degrees. I think yours is around 200, which is fine if that was what it called for and you should not see it go beyond 225 (thats a guess). Make sure your coolant is 50/50 not more or less (helps heat transfer).

Now if you climb a steep grade like before what does it read? That's a stress test and it will probably go higher than other times. When that reading (after climbing a steep grade) causes the temp to skyrocket but there is no air bubble and the cooling system operates normally otherwise, you need a radiator.

regards
mech