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-   -   PICS! Econo Car conversion to Kubota Diesel. 1997 Geo Metro, Kubota D1005 3 cylinder (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/pics-econo-car-conversion-kubota-diesel-1997-geo-32945.html)

planejob 10-17-2015 07:22 PM

PICS! Econo Car conversion to Kubota Diesel. 1997 Geo Metro, Kubota D1005 3 cylinder
 
Like you, I like cars. I like working on them, driving them, modifying them... pretty much everything about cars with the exception of body work.

I've owned a long list of cars and enjoyed every one of them; from the VW Thing to the Porsche Cayman. I've rebuilt some VW diesels, some gas engines, some motor scooters, and tons of other junk.

For every 1 project I've finished I've started 3, and considered 100.

In an effort to not lose focus, to draw on your enthusiasm, and to document my efforts I've decided to start this build thread, right here on Ecomodder.

First up, the patient:
A 1997 Geo Metro.
It's worse than it looks and has very few redeeming qualities. The seller was either dumb or slick. The buyer (that's me) was foolish and too eager.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ay%201%20b.jpg http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ay%201%20c.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ay%201%20d.jpg http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ay%201%20a.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...84188167_o.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...8323_o%201.jpg

Engine Removed:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...14250747_o.jpg http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...43868612_o.jpg

And, the "new" engine before being parted from the generator head:
Click on it for the video of the startup:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...017_111755.mp4

And the engine, after all of the "stuff" was pulled off:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...017_170600.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...017_170618.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...017_170652.jpg

Game on, I suppose!

user removed 10-17-2015 08:39 PM

Is the direction of rotation right?

regards
mech

planejob 10-17-2015 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic (Post 496831)
Is the direction of rotation right?

Yes indeed, the Kubota rotates CCW when viewed from the Flywheel.
The G13BA does the same, right.

oil pan 4 10-17-2015 10:27 PM

I think this is what, a proven 90 to 100mpg setup.
Much more productive than chasing unicorns. (hho, fuel vapor and so on)

planejob 10-17-2015 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 496843)
I think this is what, a proven 90 to 100mpg setup.
Much more productive than chasing unicorns. (hho, fuel vapor and so on)

And I'm pretty excited to get it on the road (hopefully this year, 2015) and start playing with the aero stuff. I want something that seats 3, sounds like a tractor, gets great mileage, and looks insane.

RustyLugNut 10-17-2015 11:00 PM

This is as much a loss of productivity as the aformentioned Unicorn devices.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 496843)
I think this is what, a proven 90 to 100mpg setup.
Much more productive than chasing unicorns. (hho, fuel vapor and so on)

I would dare say most any mod other than change of driving style lacks a payback that allows you to break even economically ( depending how you value your time and effort ).


But, it is going to be FUN! And that is priceless.

planejob 10-17-2015 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut (Post 496847)
... lacks a payback...
But, it is going to be FUN! And that is priceless.

Ahh, the fun is why I'm here!

If I needed the car for transportation this would not be a viable project.

BabyDiesel 10-18-2015 03:09 AM

Subscribed!!

Glad to have you on Ecomodder and eagerly looking forward to your progress :thumbup:

As far as aero mods are concerned, you cannot go wrong copying such legends as Basjoos's Aerocivic and Donkey CRX's MULE VX.

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ph...trebuild15.jpg
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-th...4270706440.jpg

planejob 10-18-2015 11:06 AM

Kubota Backing plate acquired!
 
eBay score!

My engine came with an SAE #5 bellhousing. The bellhousing adds about 5 inches of length to the engine so I knew I would not be able to use it.

I scored this Kubota backing plate on eBay for a few dollars. I don't think I'll be able to use it in the car, but with a set of transfer punches I'll be able to get the critical holes marked out on the new aluminum adapter. (I've decided I can build the adapter my self. this ought to be good :rolleyes: )

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...er%201%20b.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...er%201%20a.jpg


For the actual in car adapter, I found a 13"x13" plate of 1/2" aluminum for 70 dollars. A bit steep, but a possibility. I'll keep searching.

changzuki 10-18-2015 07:52 PM

Just saw this thread, subscribed. Good luck with your engine swap!
~CrazyJerry

planejob 10-18-2015 10:38 PM

Ok, today I pulled the transmission so I can match the Kubota to the tranny.

I've got the engine plate coming this way (courtesy of eBay) and a plan to mate the two - thanks to some of the past posts from Kimer6.

From what I've read, when the auto tranny TCM fails you can still manually **** the tranny - folks, I'd love some input here. If I hook up the auto tranny with all of the mechanical connections (that's 2 total; the Gear shift and the kick down) will I be able to manually shift from first up to third - or- will it be a piece of junk that stays stuck in third? What's the failure mode of these slush boxes?

thanks in advance.

P.S. Aluminum has been ordered for the adapter plate. Woohoo. this is moving along nicely.

MobilOne 10-19-2015 02:25 PM

Good Luck!

Sounds like fun!

planejob 10-19-2015 09:29 PM

The mailman was nice today.
 
The Kubota engine plate arrived today. the box was completely destroyed and taped up - the only thing in it was the thing that counted, the plate!

I went out to the garage and did some comparing and took a few rudimentary measurements and started planning the process for making the adapter.

Here's the scene of the crime:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...019_191405.jpg

The plate mounts up just fine to the D1005. The eBay listing said it was from a V1505, or some such, and I gambled that the "05 series" engines would share the bolt pattern. The locating pin mates properly.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...019_190149.jpg

The center of the input shaft is drilled out from the Suzuki or Aisin or wherever facory. I suspect it is metric but a 5/16" transfer punch (from Harbor Freight, so it's probably metric anyway) went about 3 inches into the hole and was a snug fit. I'll be using it to mark the center of the adapter.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...019_190620.jpg

It will look something like this when it's done. I will be leaving the bottom sliver of the transmission bellhousing open, not making a full plate, so that I can have access to the torque converter bolts - similar to the original opening.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...019_191024.jpg

spacemanspif 10-19-2015 10:53 PM

Great thread and project! Can't wait to see it come together and the results of the effort. Is there a reason why you are sticking with the auto and not switching to a manual trans?

planejob 10-20-2015 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacemanspif (Post 497019)
Is there a reason why you are sticking with the auto and not switching to a manual trans?

Thanks for the encouraging and kind words. As for the auto tranny... It's all I've got, and the car is an auto. I really would have preferred a manual. I've even sourced a manual transmission for 80 bucks.

My internet research (bonjour) says that the manual and the auto have the same bell housing bolt pattern. I'm thinking if the auto doesn't work or is fried, or fails... I could replace it later with a manual. What do you think? Sound reasonable?

Also, I'm not sure what all is involved in putting the clutch pedal in, etc. The underhood bits seem to be plug-n-play.

Baltothewolf 10-20-2015 03:39 AM

Yea just stick with the auto for now, not going to hurt anything mechanically, and you will get to test and make sure it works before you convert. Besides the comfort of an auto is sometimes worth the MPG loss.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 10-20-2015 02:53 PM

Is it still fitted with a 3-speed auto or is it already a 4-speed one?

ennored 10-20-2015 03:06 PM

Aren't there sheet metal differences between auto and manual Metros? Nothing that could be dealt with I'm sure, but probably worth understanding.

planejob 10-20-2015 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 497089)
Is it still fitted with a 3-speed auto or is it already a 4-speed one?

Originally the car was equipped with the 3-speed Automatic Transmission, and the 4 cylinder 1.3 liter engine.

I will be reusing the 3-speed automatic transmission, for now. :thumbup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ennored (Post 497092)
Aren't there sheet metal differences between auto and manual Metros? Nothing that could be dealt with I'm sure, but probably worth understanding.

Since I'm keeping the auto for now, I think I will not worry about the differences at this point. I would imagine a few holes have to be drilled, maybe some braces swapped, but when I make it to that point of this project we will all be so astounded that it'll seem like no big deal. :D


Edit: The project is going to stall until October 31. I've got to travel for work and will not be able to fiddle with the spanners.

spacemanspif 10-20-2015 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planejob (Post 497025)
It's all I've got,

That's fair. Just figured that doing the swap would kinda blend with the rest of the project and since the auto is "iffy" already might be worth the effort. I didn't think a swap would be difficult either due to lack of knowledge on the Metro platform. I just thought it would be grab pedals and hydraulics outof a junk yard and slap into your car...apparently I am wrong lol

elhigh 10-21-2015 10:12 AM

I'm really enjoying this thread.

Man, you are quick off the mark. You've only had the car three weeks. "Well, that engine is cooked, let's shove a compact tractor engine under the hood and use that!"

planejob 10-22-2015 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planejob (Post 497096)
The project is going to stall until October 31. I've got to travel for work and will not be able to fiddle with the spanners.

I fibbed a little, I guess. I still have to study, and travel, but the aluminum plate came in today. I don't have a lot of time to get started on the engine mounting holes but I did set the plate on top of both components, the engine and tranny, to confirm that the plate is the right size.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...022_183155.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...022_183132.jpg

As I mentioned earlier, I plan to leave the bottom of the bellhousing open to provide access to the torque converter bolts. The adapter plate will line up with the bottom of the engine block -you can see the engine block outline in the paint on the adapter:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...022_182930.jpg

planejob 10-24-2015 04:50 PM

I'm such a liar. I totally skipped out on studying today and went to the junkyard with my neighbor.

The online parts inventory said they had 2 metros. I got there and both were autos. They did have the little trim piece I needed, and the driver's side mirror.

As we are walking out I ask the guy if they have any Metros not on the inventory or recently put out. He says, "Yeah, we have one out there, a 1998 metro, row 70, it's been there for 4 months so it's probably pretty well stripped, we're gonna crush it soon if they didn't already..."

Aside from the timing belt cover and all four wheels NOTHING was missing. It appeared the engine suffered some catastrophic timing failure (seized), but the tranny, shifter, center console, etc. was all there.

My wallet is slightly lighter, but I have a manual swap "kit" of sorts sitting in the garage!

changzuki 10-24-2015 07:54 PM

Good find with the manual transmission!
Playing hookey can be worth it!

~CrazyJerry

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-03-2015 10:12 PM

So now that you have a 5-speed manual laying around, are you still considering to use the 3-speed automatic? Remember, with an engine that has such a low output the performance and fuel-efficiency penalty of the automatic will be higher...

planejob 11-04-2015 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 498384)
So now that you have a 5-speed manual laying around, are you still considering to use the 3-speed automatic? Remember, with an engine that has such a low output the performance and fuel-efficiency penalty of the automatic will be higher...

I have options. They both mount the same.

That is, they mate to each other the same.

I've transferred over all of the bolt holes from the Kubota mount to the aluminum, and have started getting the center of the aluminum cut out- - I lack the proper tools so I'm doing it with a drill bit and a grinder - NOT FUN.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...101_180905.jpg

Varn 11-04-2015 08:06 PM

Neat project
How do you think the gearing will work out. Many of those industrial diesel engines are maxed out about 3000-3600j rpm

Mr. Previa 11-04-2015 08:34 PM

Nice!
 
Nice conversion. The diesel will be nice. I did actually "capture a unicorn" as some one mentioned earlier by running an engine from just gasoline vapors. LOL

I miss my Geo and I hope your get yours purring! I will be tuning in!

Take care,

Mr. Previa 11-04-2015 08:38 PM

BTW, you can shift the tranny with a bad TCM. Mine went out on mine. I replaced it for ~$20. I found a used one from my local Pull-A-Part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by planejob (Post 496934)
Ok, today I pulled the transmission so I can match the Kubota to the tranny.

I've got the engine plate coming this way (courtesy of eBay) and a plan to mate the two - thanks to some of the past posts from Kimer6.

From what I've read, when the auto tranny TCM fails you can still manually **** the tranny - folks, I'd love some input here. If I hook up the auto tranny with all of the mechanical connections (that's 2 total; the Gear shift and the kick down) will I be able to manually shift from first up to third - or- will it be a piece of junk that stays stuck in third? What's the failure mode of these slush boxes?

thanks in advance.

P.S. Aluminum has been ordered for the adapter plate. Woohoo. this is moving along nicely.


kimer6 11-04-2015 08:48 PM

Great job!

The drawbacks...darned generator engine is set to 1800 RPM. I messed with governor springs to get 3600. The injection timing is fixed...by shims...and has no advance mechanism like in car diesels. Tolerable but not ideal. Under certain load conditions the fuel rack will go wide open...and the little Metro will roll coal like a tweaked Cummins with a hot rod chip...huge black cloud right in front of the cops.

I was going to add a piece...fuel integrator of sorts... from a turbo Kubota that helped limit the fuel rack under certain conditions but it never happened. The other thing I thought about doing was to link the fuel rack right to the throttle cable with no direct connection to the governor. My foot would limit the total amount of fuel and keep smoke to a minimum.

After all was said and done, the car with 5 speed was a pleasure from 30 to 50mph on back woods roads with a few hills. It was downright dangerous on the freeway when I came to my first major hill. 65 was possible on flat lands.

Driving was weird with the governor. You could take off and floor it in first and then it hit a flat spot where it just would not rev any more. It was like you hit the brakes. But leave it floored, push in the clutch and grab second, let out, and it would accelerate again until it hit the governor. Very odd. Good for smiles.

I have a small KKK turbo on my turbo/blower shelf and MAYBE I will plumb it in some day. You described it best...100 ideas, 3 projects, never finished. I am wanting to make a rat rod truck with my Detroit 3-53 marine diesel. The same engine was going to be a trailer mounted margarita mixer but I think cruising Pismo Beach in a rat truck will be the proper path.

Need a skid plate for that Kubota oil pan, it hangs a little low, and also move the oil filter to the left front of the block as the right axle goes dead center through the filter as it sits. The in-tank fuel pump works fine but you need to flush out ALL of the gasoline in the tank, make a bonfire, and put fresh diesel in the tank. Run the fuel feed line from the tank into a tee with one leg to the engine fuel lift pump and the other line to the return line to the tank so it won't overload the in-tank pump.

Keep up the good work.

kimer6 11-04-2015 08:48 PM

Diesel Geo Metro
 
Great job!

The drawbacks...darned generator engine is set to 1800 RPM. I messed with governor springs to get 3600. The injection timing is fixed...by shims...and has no advance mechanism like in car diesels. Tolerable but not ideal. Under certain load conditions the fuel rack will go wide open...and the little Metro will roll coal like a tweaked Cummins with a hot rod chip...huge black cloud right in front of the cops.

I was going to add a piece...fuel integrator of sorts... from a turbo Kubota that helped limit the fuel rack under certain conditions but it never happened. The other thing I thought about doing was to link the fuel rack right to the throttle cable with no direct connection to the governor. My foot would limit the total amount of fuel and keep smoke to a minimum.

After all was said and done, the car with 5 speed was a pleasure from 30 to 50mph on back woods roads with a few hills. It was downright dangerous on the freeway when I came to my first major hill. 65 was possible on flat lands.

Driving was weird with the governor. You could take off and floor it in first and then it hit a flat spot where it just would not rev any more. It was like you hit the brakes. But leave it floored, push in the clutch and grab second, let out, and it would accelerate again until it hit the governor. Very odd. Good for smiles.

I have a small KKK turbo on my turbo/blower shelf and MAYBE I will plumb it in some day. You described it best...100 ideas, 3 projects, never finished. I am wanting to make a rat rod truck with my Detroit 3-53 marine diesel. The same engine was going to be a trailer mounted margarita mixer but I think cruising Pismo Beach in a rat truck will be the proper path.

Need a skid plate for that Kubota oil pan, it hangs a little low, and also move the oil filter to the left front of the block as the right axle goes dead center through the filter as it sits. The in-tank fuel pump works fine but you need to flush out ALL of the gasoline in the tank, make a bonfire, and put fresh diesel in the tank. Run the fuel feed line from the tank into a tee with one leg to the engine fuel lift pump and the other line to the return line to the tank so it won't overload the in-tank pump.

Keep up the good work.

oil pan 4 11-04-2015 10:51 PM

The most important question is will this one be able to roll coal too?

kimer6 11-04-2015 11:02 PM

Roll Coal. Absolutely!

So you like 6.5 Chevy diesels? I put this one together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDyQ_VeZKx0

oil pan 4 11-04-2015 11:13 PM

I don't roll coal with my 6.5L one I am too cheap, 2 I run a mechanical injection pump so if I wanted to it would take an hour to tear into the engine turn up the rate screw then bleed the air out then another hour to undo the excess smoke.

What all did you build that 6.5L with?
People who build 6.5Ls tend to grab anything laying around and bolt it to the engine so there are some interesting combos.

kimer6 11-05-2015 12:33 AM

Its a stock 6.5 with +1/3 turn on the juice screw. It has a 180 degree T-Stat, huge heat exchanger, 180 T stat oil cooler, power steering cooler, extra spring on the waste gate for 10psi. Mechanical injection pump, too. Dual mass flywheel. What do you want for a $400 engine off Craigslist... dang outdrive was $1600. I have a water intercooler but never hooked it up. Runs good as is. Top speed was 43mph on gps but the hull gets squirrely over 30. It originally had a 47hp Perkins inboard so it was never meant to go fast.

oil pan 4 11-05-2015 12:54 AM

Try the air to water aftercooler, you will like it.

100MPGUS 11-05-2015 06:24 AM

:thumbup:
Subscribed! I am planning, well thinking...ok, dreaming of doing this to a First generation Insight.

rustygirl 11-05-2015 12:35 PM

Drawing for a d905 plate
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by planejob (Post 498420)
I have options. They both mount the same.

That is, they mate to each other the same.

I've transferred over all of the bolt holes from the Kubota mount to the aluminum, and have started getting the center of the aluminum cut out- - I lack the proper tools so I'm doing it with a drill bit and a grinder - NOT FUN.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...101_180905.jpg

Hello Planejob,
You have a good project there. Kubota’s are great little engines. There are two different oil pans. It looks like you may have the deep one. Takes like 5 quarts. If you replace it you need the pickup tube also. I stuffed a generator engine (d905) into an MG Midget a few years ago. If she behaves anything like Bridget she will get her best mileage if you keep her around the magic 1800 rpm. Above 2400 or so the engine will crack, I guess from the timing not advancing. It’s kind of a fun noise but I suspect unburnt fuel. Bridget eventually got a d1105T which made her a much more fun car. Attached is the drawing for the adapter plate. Maybe it will help you. It’s pretty accurate as the dowel hole lined up. Spend a lot of time getting the trans input shaft and crank correct. I tossed 2 clutches before I figured out my 2mm mistake.
Good luck

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...4&d=1446741131

Xist 11-05-2015 04:25 PM

Five quarts for such a tiny engine? :)

rustygirl 11-05-2015 04:44 PM

It was called the extended run option or something like that. Yes it is a crazy amount of oil. maybe because it didn't have an oil cooler? my d1105t had the smaller pan but an oil cooler under the filter.


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