Plug-In Hybrid Retrofit Kit Using Alternator as Motor
 

Hey guys, over the past year and a half I have been working on a universal plug-in hybrid retrofit kit for any conventional vehicle. This conversion uses the vehicles existing alternator and belt drive to add electric traction and because of this innovative approach the kit is inherently inexpensive and simple to install. Using 100vdc I am able to reliably and continuously apply up to 8000W of electric assist with the vehicles OEM alternator. I installed the system on a 2011 Mazda CX-7 SUV with great results as an “Electric Cruise Assist” or ECA. Over the summer I automated the system and decided to commit to a full blown demo vehicle using a dedicated 2004 Ford Taurus with the system packaged as it might be sold in the near future which will be complete within the next several weeks. Check out all of the videos on my website eca-systems.com and let me know what you think. I am trying to gauge interest in this kit since a market for hybrid retrofit or conversion kits really doesn’t exist at this time. I am posting on several forums to get the most feedback so if you’ve already seen this post I apologize.
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A couple of things here:

1. I commend you on your efforts.
2. I think you need more Long Term Test vehicles. Send one of these my way!

That being said;

The testing procedures are quite flawed. Comparing the alt/motor temp at 25mph @ ambient 84*F vs 60mph @ ambient 68*F (with additional air cooling vent) is ludicrous.

Also, running 8 large AGM batteries to achieve 96v rated at 34ah is going to net less than 25min before bringing the batteries down to 20% capacity at 8000w.

That's a lot of weight, space, and money spent on 10hp of ECA for approx 20mi of driving.

nbleak21,

Please give us the location for the source if that information. Qty of AGM cells and AH, temperature testing, etc. I didn't run across that info on the ECA Systems site, though it could be there.

If you're new here you might still be able to type it in as plain text, or pm me and I'll post it here.

I think a 20 minute duration of assist could be fine because in most driving the system will oscillate between assist and charge modes due to vehicle speed changes and braking events. You only would need a much longer assist if recharging from a wall outlet and intending to use assist mode full time or nearly full time.

This is great, but as I understand alternators are not incredibly robust units, and neither are belts...edit: okay I watched the video, the alternator is converted. But the belts? I think belts are known to have a bit of trouble driving superchargers sometimes, for example.

Okay now that I've watched every one of the videos on eca-systems.com, a few more things...
You say it cuts out after 70mph because it's speed limited, so what is the alternator speed above which it cannot provide assist?

Since you have a motor connected straight to the engine, do you envision there being a stop-start function or at least a button that can be added to do that?

How does assist under acceleration work?

How much regenerative braking effect is there?

How reprogrammable will this be?

Is there any regeneration (charging) of the system when braking that actually captures the momentum of the vehicle and uses it to charge the battery?

If not, then I can't understand how this system will improve efficiency/mpg for each tank of fuel. Yes, there is less load on the engine (better mpg) when accelerating, but the power that assists the engine when accelerating comes from the battery, and the battery was charged using engine power (gasoline) which means worse mpg during idle/low speed driving.

Since these electrical components will give off heat energy, I would guess that overall mpg would be worse. I would also think that at least 100-200 extra lbs of batteries would reduce mpg for stop and go drivers.

This seems to be essentially an anti-pulse and glide device. In a way, it evens out the load on the engine (it works a little harder under light load in order to charge the battery bank for the assist during high speed/high load driving).

I do appreciate the company's honesty in calling this "Electric Cruise Assist"- so people should know up front that they aren't getting a regenerative braking device like would be found in a Prius/OEM hybrid.

This seems to be a really interesting idea, but I would like some more complete details. An estimation of the cost of the kit would be nice too. Since you have two cars with this sytem in place already, what kind of mpg difference have you seen for trip averages, and how much estimated wall power did you use. Any log term tracking or ABA testing?

The belts normally don't cost much, and are fairly each to change, so that isn't a large consern for me. I could see this being useful for users with lean burn engines, so they can keep the engines in lean burn mode while going up hills, cold starts, etc.

I like this idea.

What I don't like is 3-4 hundred pounds of battery.

Assuming you have decent regen capability, this could work well in city traffic...IF you don't have huge battery weight.

I guess a Li-Ion pack would pretty much take it out of the low cost category. Perhaps you could use smaller SLA 12 volt batteries. I use a 12V 7aH battery for my bike light. A bank of 8 of these would be around 70 lbs. Don't know if it would provide enough power though.

This is all information gathered from watching the videos on the website:

AGM cells were used in the initial testing video (4-34ah AGMs in series at 48v = dubbing 8 required to near the 100v required for 8000w output)

Temp testing also found between two different videos on there related to that.

If the system had regen capabilities then yes, I'd see that as somewhat more reasonable, but the lack of mentioning any sort of regen makes me think it doesn't. So, how often are you going to be heading somewhere that you only will utilize 20mi of ECA between charges? most peoples' daily commutes involve stop and go or rush hr traffic, saving cruise for longer trips generally speaking. (Unless your commute is 120-240mi a day like myself lol)


Personally, I'd rather see a design that assists based on TPS and RPM then Cruise. something along the lines of engagement 5 - 20% throttle, Charge at 0% (during deceleration) with a charge cutoff below 1k rpms (stop lights ect)

This would enable use throughout the driving range (acceleration, cruise, etc) except under hard acceleration/ heavy loade, in which it could switch back into regen mode if possible.

Unfortunately the way this system appears to be designed, it would have no positive gains on city traffic, and those Small SLA's would only net you 4-5mi max of ECA. (and there is no mention of regen that I came across) Li-Ions would definitely help in the weight category, but as you said, would definitely hinder the cost effectiveness.

I missed it, how much improvement did it do, whats the output of the assist and what is the battery capacity? :snail:

Ive had the idea to add an electric motor in the loop of my insight as well as back feed the ima motor using the 4 kilowatt enginer pack, however I had a lot of people, poo-poo the idea.

If it would work on a standard car that offers the fuel cut in its computer, it should really help in a newer insight or hch as these cars disconnect the lifters so the valves stay shut to reduce pumping losses.

Mike Debrowski had done some work on a 5th wheel as a pusher and showed a mini van getting 70+ mpg and that was with its engine running in gear so fluid still pumped through the tranny.

If you decide to do it yourself, you can find 48 volt lifepo4 backs with charger and bms online as well as speed controllers and motors. My idea was to limit it to a thousand watts, so I had a min 2 hour run time with my 4 kilowatt kit and maybe 3.5 tops. Having one that did regen required a much more expensive controller. :eek:

Clarifying a few things and answering questions
 

I would like to thank everyone for your comments.

The first battery that was used in the "Alpha Prototype" consisted of (12) 6S 5000mah LiPoly Turnigy Batteries configured with 4 cells in series and then 3 of these quad cell packs in parrallel resulting in 15Ah at about 100Volts. I later increased that voltage to about 110volts buy adding (3) 2S 35000mah LiPoly packs to get higher top assist speed. This 15Ah pack lasted about 12-13 minutes and was used for the extended test shown on the website. On the demo I have purchased (8) 115ah deep cycle lead acid batteries because I wanted to have a much longer assist time to be able to tweak the system on my daily commutes. Considering these batteries are lead acid I expect about 40-45 minutes from the battery pack or about a 3 fold increase in assist time. I know the weight is a problem but I don't have the $2500 to invest in a pack of 40Ah LifePO4 batteries, BMS, and charger. I am funding this intirely myself so I am trying to keep cost low even though the lithium batteries are the best choice. Consequently I have intentionally not put too much emphasis on the battery system since this is not one of the key elements unique to this conversion method and would be required no matter how the vehicle was converted.

Some one was asking about how the top speed is limited and what limits top speed is the battery voltage. Through my testing unloaded I can get 12K rpm+ but once the motor is under a load at 100vdc I can only get about 6500rpm before the motor can no longer generate enough torque to effectively assist the engine. On the prototype the ratio between the crank pulley and the alternator pulley was about 3 to one. This resulted in a maximum engine rpm of about 2200rpm which is directly related to the maximum speed. Like any other motor the effective assist RPM varies fairly linearly with Voltage. Right now the speed control I am using is limited to 120Vdc absolute max but I keep it under 110vdc.

For the first poster I will definately need some assistance in the future getting this on more varied test vehicles. Join the mailing list and I will definately keep it in mind.

The totally automated system was tested on the Mazda CX-7 this summer and it worked well but I had all of the components spread out on the floorboard because I was really just prooving the concept. I have since removed everything from the vehicle because I was constructing the extended test and demo vehicle.

I know there were also some comments about temperature rise on the alternator. The two videos on the website were actually produced when I was working ReGo Electric's electrical engineer. The extend test was done at highway speeds as well as around town and this was not the only test conducted just the only one fully recorded on video. The alternator stator coil temperature rises to about 200F and stays there. Yes I had to install a 3" fresh air duct to direct air into the area of the alternator because without it the alternator could only be run in cycles with 3 minutes on and 2 minutes off. The second video was recorded a while later because he wanted to see what temperatures the alternator normally sees. So I plugged the cool air duct I had installed and drove the vehicle around to see what temperature the alternator would normally run at. Of course at slower speeds or when sitting in traffic the alternator gets much hotter than driving at 65mph but the only time the assist is active is when the vehicle is moving and air in flowing. I have documentation from alternator stator wire manufacturers and motor manufacturers, toshont.com/ag/mtrldesign/AG05%20(Temperature%20Rise).pdf, that state that 200F is well within normal operating limits for 20,000 hours.

One person asked about gains in mpg. These are documented in full on the "Historical" video sections of the website. On the Alpha prototype with a limited assist range of 40-60mph I saw increases of about 65% at lower speeds 40-45 (~44 unassisted, >70 assisted). The gains decrease as speed increases but this is expected. I also found when I ploted the gains that even though the mpg increases were smaller at higher speeds your traveling faster so you cover more distance in the same amount of time so the actual fuel conservation is pretty close to the same.

I am a mechanical engineer by profession and have done my best to make all of my testing objective and did my due dilegence in research.

Please keep the comments coming. If I have missed any questions let me know. I check the forum posts once a day.

Is there any regenerative braking? If not, it seems like you could attain this on a vehicle with a manual transmission with a little programming of the ECA control unit.

I can see that instantaneous mpg would be better with your system when the assist was working, but wouldn't mpg at low load decrease? (because extra power is needed to charge the batteries).

I would like to see some blind testing. Many persons can get 10-20% over EPA ratings by driving an unmodified vehicle with economy in mind. How about placing a cover over the ECA display and have a 3rd party turn the device on or off for a whole tank- then the tank mpg could be posted on a website as tank 1, 2, 3... Then the 3rd party reveals which tanks had the ECA on and which tanks had the ECA unplugged.

I am open to testing it on either of my vehicles. :D

Before you do too much you would need to see a break down of cost over mpg improvement or over all drivability and how much driving it would take to recoup your investment.

Make sure if you go the lifepo4 route that you have one hell of a bms or procedure to keep the cells in check. 45 minute run time with your current pack would do a leg of my trip, then I hope its small enough to take in the office and plug in under my desk. :thumbup:

As a Enginer PHEV owner Ive read many people talk how the bms ruin vs helped their cells and the benefits or gains was all over the place depending on the nut behind the wheel, setttings used and wait time to get replacement or service. :eek:

BTW, those are 48 volt system if you choose to offer this as another option for the IMA guys.

I remember some years ago Bosch was working on a single-unit starter-alternator setup, which would be a good option to ease the integration with a regenerative braking setup.

Again, thanks for your continued comments and questions.

The system has no regeration capability and is purely plug-in on the high voltage hybrid assist side. The vehicle may have additional load put on the engine when the vehicle switches back to 12V charge mode to replenish the capacity used by the vehicle's headlights, wipers, a/c, ignition and other electrical loads while the system is in assist mode. Essentially you're just carrying around electrical storage instead of a quanitity of fuel in the gas tank. Once the battery is depleated the system is suspended until the battery is charged.

As far as the fuel economy gains reported on the Website and on the youtube video they are totally correct and genuine. If you view the entirety of the gains video in the "Historical" video section of the website, the first two clips show fulll length videos of exactly how the MPG gains were recorded. The vehicle's cruise control was set and then the average mpg was reset on the OEM display. The average MPG display in the Mazda CX-7 samples for 60 seconds before displaying the average result. In all of the tests, the vehicle's cruise control was controlling the speed at all times and the vehicle was traveling the same direction over the same stretch of road at the same time of day. I felt this was sufficient to yield accurate results.

Also, I have done several studies on the total cost comparison between stock and using the assist system including all components, expected battery life and electricity consumption. These results can vary greatly between drivers due to many factors so I designed a device, several months ago, that can be plugged into a perspective customers OBDii port that will estimate the % gain in fuel economy and the % reduction in fuel cost they can reasonably expect given their normal driving habits. This device will also be able to estimate the battery size they will need since it is based on the same algorithms that the actual system is and can determine when and for how long the assist system would be active and at what speeds. I am really doing everything I can to make sure perspective customers will have an accurate estimation of gains so they can make an informed decision. If you do a lot of stop and go driving and sitting in traffic the retrofit kit may not be very effective, however is you drive longer distances at fairly stable speeds this system can be very effective as reducing fuel consumption.

As for blind testing, I have always intened to conduct field testing with independant drivers. After I get the Demo/Extended test vehicle completed in the next several weeks and get a month or so road time, I will consider recruiting a few trustworthy interested parties form this forum and others to carryout independant testing and report results and document problems. If you may be interested in doing this send me an email through my website or this forum expressing that you would like to take part in field testing. You will need to have the ability to convert your alternator and purchase and assemble the components yourself and the conversion vehicle preferably needs to have an OEM mpg display for credibility (My 2004 Ford Taurus has an average mpg display built in to the instrument cluster and the 2011 CX-7 had both Instant and Average displays). I will supply instructions, a bill of materials with suppliers, software and consulting in exchange for full rights to your test results and signing of confidentiality agreements. Don't worry, all of the current components used in the system are off the shelf with only minor electrical assembly and soldering.

Over all I think this will perform best with the pulse and glide technique.

Second, upgrading your starter battery to a deep cycle one.

I agree, but I don't think the OP is aware of all of our tricks to get "crazy" mileage :).

Maybe he would be interested in looking at different "modes" for assist and add regen abilities. Only down side I can even see to this, is the belts might wear out much faster since it is being stressed more.

I wonder how efficient the alt is at producing power vs using the power to make something move. I would suspect if going from mechanical to battery storage back to mechanical again is over 30%, it would work well with P&G since from my understanding, a ICE engine is only 20-25% efficient from fuel to movement.

I personally would think for the ecomodder members would like 2 button manual control/override as an option. First button to enable assist (don't matter what the system sees), and the second to reverse the effect and regen back to the batteries. In the correct hands, it should give amazing results!

Thanks again for all the comments. Infact the last iteration of the alpha prototype was a two button system. One for assist and one for cancel. The driver sets the cruise and then presses the assist button. Within one second, the assist system is applying 65-75 amps at 100 Volts. Anytime the brake is depressed or the driver presses cancel, the system cancels and returns to charge mode. This is alot less complicated and didn't rely on collecting vehicle data. I just didn't think the majority of regular drivers would want that level of interaction. I do agree that this tool in conjunction with hypermiling techniques could yield great results. I will defiinately keep this version part of the line up.

I've read elsewhere in this thread that the system does not provide regen. True, in that it does not provide the "strong" braking regen of a full fledged hybrid. However keep in mind that various conditions will charge the battery pack. I estimate that in stop and go driving the gains will be pretty good, especially on the hands of a skilled hypermiler.

On the open road on the other hand, I estimate that charging would mostly (only?) be accomplished by having the engine power the converted alternator. I think that for good gains on the highway it would be good to pre-charge the battery off a/c wall current to get the max possible assist time. But then the system has an upper speed limit for assist so high speed operation isn't yet it's forte. Possibly increasing the pack voltage by about 20% would raise that limit to a higher speed.

I would like to see before and after fuel logs to substantiate the benefits on mpg for the test vehicle. I think It would certainly help your case for the benefit of your system. People want solid A-B-A testing to prove it works well and also that it can do it over and over again on an everyday basis. Not just on a single trip in certain conditions.

Otherwise the system looks really promising. I love the idea. I think it could really help my car's gas milage.

Thanks,

Areen

Sorry for the delay in posting,

I have posted another archive video on the website in the "Historical Videos" section which compares assisted and un-assisted average MPG during an example trip which was recorded using the alpha prototype in February of 2012. This gives an apples to apples comparison of the performance of this version on the retrofit system.

Keep in mind, at that time, the battery system was only 10Ah and the program took over 30 seconds to ramp up the assist. The current version of the assist system takes less than a second to reach full assist and assists at a much broader speed range so the mpg gains are expected to increase.

Because we are right in the middle of completing the extended test vehicle, I am not able to monitor and answer posts as often as I would like to keep this thread current. The website is and will continue to be the best source for up to date information concerning the final development of this retrofit kit.

Thanks for all of the input.

Sigh, I was quite interested so I looked at the website. It seems they have a supplier that can't, so development is suspended.

This is a stonking idea with the potential for global sales. Why has it dried up?

Easy come easy go....