Plug-In Hybrid Retrofit Kit Using Alternator as Motor

[ECA Systems]

Hey guys, over the past year and a half I have been working on a universal plug-in hybrid retrofit kit for any conventional vehicle. This conversion uses the vehicles existing alternator and belt drive to add electric traction and because of this innovative approach the kit is inherently inexpensive and simple to install. Using 100vdc I am able to reliably and continuously apply up to 8000W of electric assist with the vehicles OEM alternator. I installed the system on a 2011 Mazda CX-7 SUV with great results as an “Electric Cruise Assist” or ECA. Over the summer I automated the system and decided to commit to a full blown demo vehicle using a dedicated 2004 Ford Taurus with the system packaged as it might be sold in the near future which will be complete within the next several weeks. Check out all of the videos on my website eca-systems.com and let me know what you think. I am trying to gauge interest in this kit since a market for hybrid retrofit or conversion kits really doesn’t exist at this time. I am posting on several forums to get the most feedback so if you’ve already seen this post I apologize.

[nbleak21]

A couple of things here:

1. I commend you on your efforts.
2. I think you need more Long Term Test vehicles. Send one of these my way!

That being said;

The testing procedures are quite flawed. Comparing the alt/motor temp at 25mph @ ambient 84*F vs 60mph @ ambient 68*F (with additional air cooling vent) is ludicrous.

Also, running 8 large AGM batteries to achieve 96v rated at 34ah is going to net less than 25min before bringing the batteries down to 20% capacity at 8000w.

That's a lot of weight, space, and money spent on 10hp of ECA for approx 20mi of driving.

[brucepick]

nbleak21,

Please give us the location for the source if that information. Qty of AGM cells and AH, temperature testing, etc. I didn't run across that info on the ECA Systems site, though it could be there.

If you're new here you might still be able to type it in as plain text, or pm me and I'll post it here.

I think a 20 minute duration of assist could be fine because in most driving the system will oscillate between assist and charge modes due to vehicle speed changes and braking events. You only would need a much longer assist if recharging from a wall outlet and intending to use assist mode full time or nearly full time.

[serialk11r]

This is great, but as I understand alternators are not incredibly robust units, and neither are belts...edit: okay I watched the video, the alternator is converted. But the belts? I think belts are known to have a bit of trouble driving superchargers sometimes, for example.

Okay now that I've watched every one of the videos on eca-systems.com, a few more things...
You say it cuts out after 70mph because it's speed limited, so what is the alternator speed above which it cannot provide assist?

Since you have a motor connected straight to the engine, do you envision there being a stop-start function or at least a button that can be added to do that?

How does assist under acceleration work?

How much regenerative braking effect is there?

How reprogrammable will this be?

[kyerik]

Is there any regeneration (charging) of the system when braking that actually captures the momentum of the vehicle and uses it to charge the battery?

If not, then I can't understand how this system will improve efficiency/mpg for each tank of fuel. Yes, there is less load on the engine (better mpg) when accelerating, but the power that assists the engine when accelerating comes from the battery, and the battery was charged using engine power (gasoline) which means worse mpg during idle/low speed driving.

Since these electrical components will give off heat energy, I would guess that overall mpg would be worse. I would also think that at least 100-200 extra lbs of batteries would reduce mpg for stop and go drivers.

This seems to be essentially an anti-pulse and glide device. In a way, it evens out the load on the engine (it works a little harder under light load in order to charge the battery bank for the assist during high speed/high load driving).

I do appreciate the company's honesty in calling this "Electric Cruise Assist"- so people should know up front that they aren't getting a regenerative braking device like would be found in a Prius/OEM hybrid.

[ps2fixer]

This seems to be a really interesting idea, but I would like some more complete details. An estimation of the cost of the kit would be nice too. Since you have two cars with this sytem in place already, what kind of mpg difference have you seen for trip averages, and how much estimated wall power did you use. Any log term tracking or ABA testing?

The belts normally don't cost much, and are fairly each to change, so that isn't a large consern for me. I could see this being useful for users with lean burn engines, so they can keep the engines in lean burn mode while going up hills, cold starts, etc.

[pete c]

I like this idea.

What I don't like is 3-4 hundred pounds of battery.

Assuming you have decent regen capability, this could work well in city traffic...IF you don't have huge battery weight.

I guess a Li-Ion pack would pretty much take it out of the low cost category. Perhaps you could use smaller SLA 12 volt batteries. I use a 12V 7aH battery for my bike light. A bank of 8 of these would be around 70 lbs. Don't know if it would provide enough power though.

[nbleak21]

Originally Posted by brucepick

nbleak21,

Please give us the location for the source if that information. Qty of AGM cells and AH, temperature testing, etc. I didn't run across that info on the ECA Systems site, though it could be there.

This is all information gathered from watching the videos on the website:

AGM cells were used in the initial testing video (4-34ah AGMs in series at 48v = dubbing 8 required to near the 100v required for 8000w output)

Temp testing also found between two different videos on there related to that.

I think a 20 minute duration of assist could be fine because in most driving the system will oscillate between assist and charge modes due to vehicle speed changes and braking events. You only would need a much longer assist if recharging from a wall outlet and intending to use assist mode full time or nearly full time.

If the system had regen capabilities then yes, I'd see that as somewhat more reasonable, but the lack of mentioning any sort of regen makes me think it doesn't. So, how often are you going to be heading somewhere that you only will utilize 20mi of ECA between charges? most peoples' daily commutes involve stop and go or rush hr traffic, saving cruise for longer trips generally speaking. (Unless your commute is 120-240mi a day like myself lol)


Personally, I'd rather see a design that assists based on TPS and RPM then Cruise. something along the lines of engagement 5 - 20% throttle, Charge at 0% (during deceleration) with a charge cutoff below 1k rpms (stop lights ect)

This would enable use throughout the driving range (acceleration, cruise, etc) except under hard acceleration/ heavy loade, in which it could switch back into regen mode if possible.

[nbleak21]

Originally Posted by pete c

I like this idea.

What I don't like is 3-4 hundred pounds of battery.

Assuming you have decent regen capability, this could work well in city traffic...IF you don't have huge battery weight.

I guess a Li-Ion pack would pretty much take it out of the low cost category. Perhaps you could use smaller SLA 12 volt batteries. I use a 12V 7aH battery for my bike light. A bank of 8 of these would be around 70 lbs. Don't know if it would provide enough power though.

Unfortunately the way this system appears to be designed, it would have no positive gains on city traffic, and those Small SLA's would only net you 4-5mi max of ECA. (and there is no mention of regen that I came across) Li-Ions would definitely help in the weight category, but as you said, would definitely hinder the cost effectiveness.

[Cobb]

I missed it, how much improvement did it do, whats the output of the assist and what is the battery capacity?

Ive had the idea to add an electric motor in the loop of my insight as well as back feed the ima motor using the 4 kilowatt enginer pack, however I had a lot of people, poo-poo the idea.

If it would work on a standard car that offers the fuel cut in its computer, it should really help in a newer insight or hch as these cars disconnect the lifters so the valves stay shut to reduce pumping losses.

Mike Debrowski had done some work on a 5th wheel as a pusher and showed a mini van getting 70+ mpg and that was with its engine running in gear so fluid still pumped through the tranny.

If you decide to do it yourself, you can find 48 volt lifepo4 backs with charger and bms online as well as speed controllers and motors. My idea was to limit it to a thousand watts, so I had a min 2 hour run time with my 4 kilowatt kit and maybe 3.5 tops. Having one that did regen required a much more expensive controller.