Project Del Sol Kammback Dead; New Ideas
 

Ok, so project Kammback was killed by the girlfriend :(

Other ideas that I'm currently planning/working on:
1)Installed alternator disable switch-8/28/2009
2)Build custom solar panel and stick it on my trunk (there is turbulence in that area anyways so it shouldn't hurt with aerodynamics. And since project kammback was killed, this is my replacement). In the mail waiting for arrival.
3)Deep cycle battery in the trunk-10/21/2009

*Should i use only the deep cycle? or wire it in parallel to the main starting battery?

4)(maybe) Alternator delete
5)Power steering delete
6)Rear wheel skirts
7)Front grille block-11/23/2009
8)Underbelly Tray
9)skinnier LRR tires
10)Side mirror delete-12/9/2009
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0208.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0211.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0203.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0204.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0205.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0206.jpg

I like ideas #7, 1+3, 6, 8, in that order. As for tires, well, a set of LRR tires on Civic VX or Insight rims wouldn't hurt you, but the aerodynamic benefits of narrower tires is small.

My engine kill switch gives me +5mpg on my commute, and I highly recommend it over turning the key.

The grille block is easy to execute and will warm the wife up to the rear wheel skirts, which will get her to think about letting you build a Kamm back out of solar panels. ;-)

Where'd you get that piece of metal for the rear skirts?

Are you talking about engine kill? or alternator disable? Kammback out of solar panels? mmmmmmmm:cool:

Home Depot. 3/4" wide x 1/8" thick aluminum bar. $4, It was in the Garage Door Department/Lumber building materials. Not sure about other stores. Says its used to build frames/reinforcement/fences. I used a vice and hammer to bend it to whatever shape i wanted.

It's so lightweight, flexible, yet sturdy, im trying to think of other things to do with it :)

Do you have the D16 or B16 Vtec motor?

Either way, have you considered gear/transmission swaps?

There are taller B-series gears that will fit in the B16's YS1 case easily, including longer final drive sets and a taller 5th gear from non-Vtec Integras.

There are also (obviously) a plethora of great gear swaps that could be performed on the D-series transmissions as well.

Thanks for the input, i've read alot in these forums and i see that you've always helped and pitched in with the honda owners.

I've got a B18C1 integra GSR motor DOHC VTEC (from my old ricer days). I spent too much money buying the motor, not gonna swap it out any time soon. Its like buying a 50" LCD tv, only to swap it out for your old 19"crt just so you can save electricity. C'mon, who does that? :p

All kidding aside, I know i could swap out for an LS tranny with the taller gears.... but im not THAT hardcore into FE. So i dont plan on doing anything mechanically major, just little bits here and there that i can do to increase FE while keeping things moderately priced :p

My ultimate goal with the car now is to keep a balance between "fun-when-i-want-to-be" and while getting decent/above average mpg's.

LOL - I just went back and read your original thread, and realized that you had the GSR swap.

I can understand not wanting to swap, I wouldn't give up my 37" LCD for much of anything (TV related.. There are things I'd gladly give it up for, though.)

How old is the clutch? If it's going to need to be changed, there would be the time to swap out your 4th/5th gears for the LS units. It only takes about two hours to do, and would get you better MPG on the highway, at least, if not the higher speed (25+ MPH) areas of the city as well, since you could use 4th gear to keep your engine just off idle. The GSR, IIRC, actually makes a decent amount of turkey at the lower RPMs, and shouldn't have any lugging issues at off idle.

Because of the massive area of detached flow, and thus, wake, at the rear of your car, and since your "other" won't allow the Kamm extension, you could also consider a deck extension spoiler, which might help get you the virtual angle you'd need to be ideal.

Some other things to look at are alternator load... replacing your lights with LED's (A'la JacobAzizza) is actually quite the idea... I'm sure you can offset the cost very quickly, as well. If you're into modding, and know how to solder, you can often get small kits of lights from StereoHouse(RadioShack) cheaply, and build your own light bulbs from LEDs using blown OEM bulbs, which is often cheaper even than using the retail LED replacements. This will also help with your alternator kill switch, since your lights won't be drawing as much from your battery. You'll need electronic relays for your blinkers and hazard lights, which also draw less (they don't work by way of inductance like the traditional clicker relays do) and they're quieter.

You may also consider simple things like a single wiper swap, as it takes less energy to move one wiper the full length of the windshield than it does to move two across 2/3 of the windshield. You can easily modify the wiper transmission to make a single wiper park flat and arc to the opposite side for a full sweep.

Old school sports car mirrors (the bullets) often look great, and are about 1/2 to 1/3 the A of your current OEM mirrors.

You can easily make color matched plugs for any hole you want to non-permanently fill with packing tape and foam. Make sure you use brown box-tape or clear cellophane packaging tape, as the foam won't stick to it as easily, and it makes for a nice, shiny face. You just line the area with the tape, then make some pieces of tape that will overlap the area, with another piece of tape face up on the backside of it to make a "lid", leaving only a couple small open spaces from which you can fill the void. Once you've done that, fill it up, until the foam comes out each hole, then let it set. You'll want to use low-expansion hi-density foam for this. Once the foam sets, in 24-48 hours or longer, you just slap some body filler over it and sand/paint. You can then figure up an attachment method from the back, so it's hidden, and you can plug your holes any time you want.

I guess that's about it for now, If I think of anything else, I'll report back.

Def. eventually gonna do this. I was actually researching about LED's today at work!

As far as mirrors, I've seen some aftermarket Carbon fiber f-1 styled side mirrors that i've been eying as well.

Thanks for all of your input Christ, gonna have to copy and paste everything you've suggested look back at it later. So many ideas!!

All the ideas that I post actually make me realize how lazy I am... :P I could easily have done all of those things already to most of the vehicles I come in contact with... I just don't have gumption.

I know exactly where you are coming from. It took me 2 weeks to finally get around to building that bar. A month to wire up the alternator kill :p

I've been "thinking about" a TC Lockup switch in my van since I bought it, almost 9 months ago. I haven't even sourced a switch, yet.

I highly recommend a kill switch over key-off, because using it is easier, safer, and faster. A kill switch gave me a large improvement vs. leaving the engine idling during my commute, as I've been seeing 31mpg on the ScanGauge, instead of 26mpg.

Christ -

I know how to do the injector kill switch for my SW2. I even have a spare on/off switch *installed*, but I haven't hooked it up. Last Thursday I tested the concept by pulling the fuel injector fuse with the engine idling, and it smoothly stalled for me. I'VE KNOWN THIS FOR ALMOST 3 YEARS!!!

I could out lazee you any day of the week.

CarloSW2

RobertSmalls -

Yes, no worries about steering wheel lock. And I could have MANUAL DFCO ON COMMAND!

(sorry about all the yelling)

CarloSW2

I use key off, but it won't actually go to the "lock" position while I'm in neutral, so it's OK. It only goes down to the first "on" click, but shuts the engine off, leaving the BCM and PCM powered, and the Odometer still reads off mileage.

I shut my engine off if I'm going to a red light, or pulling into a parking lot. I often get about 100-300 feet at a time of EOC, never much more than that, b/c it's an auto.

Wait until I get that damn 5 speed swap... :evil grin:

Damn, more switches in my limited dashboard space :confused:

UPdate: Solar goodness arrives in the mail

Pre-tabbed, this will save you TONS of soldering time.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/SL370791.jpg

They work! (I was in my warehouse, not in full sunlight)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/SL370792.jpg

Ok, i bared the *96 weather outside to make sure they fully work.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/SL370793.jpg

Small updates
 

Still haven't got around to wiring up the solar cells, you can thank laziness for that. Instead, I finally got around to removing the stock battery from the front and installed a deep cycle battery in the back.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/DSC00021.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/DSC00024.jpg

One thing i notice right away is that the handling has improved. The car no longer nose-dives so much when braking, and turning feels more neutral.

As soon as I can get ahold of enough wire to do it, I was thinking about either relocating the battery in the van under one seat, or way in the back where the jack and tool kit used to be.

I don't carry a spare, so the jack location is also empty, and there's actually a good bit of space in there.

Hm, I wonder what handling improvements that will yield :rolleyes:

I got my wire from Home Depot for like $1something per foot. They don't call it 4gauge, they call it #4.

I'm not sure I know why I want to relocate the battery, other than to make more room under the hood, I guess, and maybe for safety, since the battery is in a really bad place in the event of a collision... it's in a crush zone, sure to split.

UPDATES: Tinkering, refining...
 

BEFORE:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0205.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0204.jpg

AFTER:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0241.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0242.jpg

At this rate, im NEVER going to finish this car :(

I think your rear section on your skirts is going to be too steep for airflow to remain attached. It's a minimal wake area, but just thought I'd throw that out there for you.

Yeah, I noticed that after I finished making it, unfortunately there is no mounting point further back in the bumper. So I was thinking about extending the wheel skirt to wrap around the bumper like this:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m.../REARSKIRT.jpg

And then secure the rear section with clear packing tape i guess :confused:

Do you think this would help?

No, no, and no...

I was actually thinking that since it's aluminum bar stock, you could just make a triangular piece and rivet/weld it to the existing rear angle so that it would naturally overlap the bumper. A neoprene gasket (old door seal) would keep water/dirt from getting in there, if you were so concerned. That would make it possible to sweep the angle right back to the tail end of the bumper!

Side mirrors delete: How To on Del Sol
 

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0287.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0289.jpg

Then from the bottom, pull out the cover until it pops out. Then LIFT UP the cover, while at the same time, thread the door handle through the door. Unplug the plugs for the power windows. You should be left with this.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0293.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0290.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0292.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0295.jpg

Then think of a way to replace the mirrors, here is what I came up with. (It's supposed to say "METAL")
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0294.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0296.jpg

Very Cool, i realy like the way you put tape or something on the headlights. Do you plan to remove any wipers or just keep one? I like it.

Thanks. Yeah, it's just clear plastic packing tape. I saw another Del Sol owner on here do the same thing, except for the entire car. So i figured i'd give it a try (not the whole car though). Not actually sure if its giving me any positive FE results because it seems such a minor thing to do. But i figured every little bit will help.

I plan on keeping the wipers, I made a cover for them though (not pictured). I did tuft testing with it and it didn't seem to make any difference with the airflow.

Some shrink wrap will likely come out cleaner on the headlights than the tape does. All those wrinkles in the tape make it look like a bad patch job on the headlights, like my tail light looks right now. (It's held in with duct tape.)

power stearing delete should not be that hard to do if you find junked 5th gen civic DX

Looks good!!! That really clean up the looks of the car too.:thumbup:

pgfpro - I was searching through the ecomodder archives for "del sols", and actually it was your car that i saw that inspired me to put the tape on the headlights and aux lights. You said you have this heavy duty plastic wrap that you use at body shops and you ended up wrapping your whole car (thus creating a semi-kammback).

I was working on the rear skirt today, and Christ, you were right, the angle of the aluminum cross bar is too steep. Yes, yes, its cuz of my fat 205width tires.

Before:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0204.jpg

Some tinkering later (i know it looks ghetto). Would this be a good start in the right direction?
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...MG_02971-1.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...MG_02981-1.jpg


Christ, you mentioned fabbing up a triangular brace to my existing aluminum cross bar to sweep the rear bumper. Is this what you are talking about?
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...MG_03001-1.jpg

Why don't you disable the alternator except when the brake lights are on?

Then you have a kind of poor mans regenerative braking.

You could also bypass this to re-enable the alternator if the battery voltage goes too low.

I bet you find that battery charging with the equivalent of the "pulse and glide" is more efficient.

Your motor is usually more efficient at higher load. So by only turning on the alternator into a relatively discharged battery you are charging with the highest possible mechanical load. The power efficiency of battery charging is also best with discharged batteries. Going from 50% to 80% you get back a lot of what you put in.
Going from 80% to full not so much.

On the other hand it is bad for many batteries to be in a discharged condition so a deep cycle would be the best choice. If you had a big deep cycle and a relatively small motor or live in a warm place and run synthetic oil you should still have enough CCA to start in the AM

Once you take out the alternator you are kind of stuck for range. I drove a car this way for years back and forth to work, till I fixed the alternator. Bit of a pain though.

Far be it from me to offer relationship advice to strange people on the internet, but.

When you say "killed" I want to know how exactly? Chainsaw? Accident?

It is just possible that she prefers a somewhat more stealth look? If this is the case I would go for grill block passenger mirror delete, LRR tires and possibly a belly pan.

Killed = gave me the stink eye when I showed up to her house with it attached and said "I'm not driving in THAT!"

HA so closer to the chainsaw.
In that case, I suggest working on stealth mods first.

-smokeyj,

I've decided to scrap the "alternator delete" idea, too much risk of getting stuck in traffic in southern california, which would most likely leave me stranded. Hence, that's why i installed the alternator disable switch so i can turn it off and on when needed.

As far as stealth goes, I've installed a front grill block just the other day, removed my side mirrors, and as you can see, im working on the rear wheel skirts. The problem i'm having with those is that ive got fat 205width tires on, so they jut outside the body panels. This'll cause a disruption in airflow, hence trying to figure out how to smooth the transitions from body panel --> tire --> rear bumper.

Well a 205 is a lot of tire for such a small car. Maybe you could trade with someone for a more reasonable tire.

I too think alternator delete is a bit risky what I do think is maybe you could automate your disable switch. So for instance when you hit the brakes the alternator is enabled, or when battery is really low it enables automatically. This would also make the car girlfriend compatible as they tend to not want to be bothered with switching the alternator in or out depending

Yeah i definately am going back to a skinnier tire once these wear out.

The gf doesnt mind the alternator switch actually, but she still thinks its a stupid idea.

How is the alternator switch going to work? Do you have access to the field winding?