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-   -   Project HX - The flip side (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/project-hx-flip-side-3177.html)

Vince-HX 06-19-2008 04:57 AM

Project HX - The flip side
 
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I'm totally addicted to mpg and i'm not afraid to admit it :cool:

My current ride is a worn in (180,000) mile 96 Honda Hx. When i first bought the car the best I could do was high 30's but that was before I discovered the world of hypermiling.

My Hx is setup mostly stock with a full suspension upgrade, 15's and grippy 205-50-15s, and a Full-Race traction bar. I compare it to riding a Ninja 250, small, nimble, but if you want to go fast around corners you have to go fast into corners. Anyway it rides and handles great but right now with my MPG kick I could sacrifice a little here and there.

I swapped a Ex tranny into it before i knew what the hell i was doing and now I'm guessing I'm loosing out on 5-7 mpg because of the shorter gearing. And the current wheel and tire combo is a little small (speedo reads a little off but odo is gps verified). A Cx tranny from a Eg chassis should put my rpms where they should be soon.

My latest mods have been side mirror deletes, upper grill block, vacuum gauge installed, front lip, tune-up. My last tank checked out @ my best yet - 48 mpg :turtle:

In a few days I plan to have my hands on a set of Hx wheels and tires for a 28lb rotational weight drop and a SCII. Also if my job doesn't take over my life this weekend I plan to start fabrication of a full fiberglass belly pan and rear wheel side skirts.

I also plan to add extra instrumentation to better monitor the vtec-e and lean burn modes. Right now my vacuum gauge is providing me with some great info and it seems to be working. Its cool to feel and see how a vacuum gauge, throttle, vtec-e, and lean burn all work together but I still feel there is much to learn to maximize my mpg gains.

I also just want to say that Honda's are effin AMAZING

Oh, and I guess i should add that during the day I engineer and fabricate custom stainless steel turbo manifolds. If you guys are interested in that kinda stuff you can check out the site http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea....full-race.com.

So yeah, thats about it for now.

I would love to hear any ideas you guys have

And when I achieve my goals and finish all my planned mods I am going on to the next project. It will be a full custom chassis three wheeler, fully enclosed single seater with a ninja 250 engine with sprag clutch combined with a custom small hybrid brushless Dc Regen capable setup. I want, need, 150+ mpg **insert evil laugh**

The pic is pre mirror delete and grill block but gives you guys an idea of what i'm working with.

Daox 06-19-2008 08:20 AM

Welcome to the site. The HX is a great car to start with. Looking forward to hearing more.

MetroMPG 06-19-2008 12:01 PM

Quote:

I would love to hear any ideas you guys have
Sounds like you have no shortage of ideas and are already headed in the right direction!

I hope you'll keep us updated on the ecomods as they unfold.

Vince-HX 06-20-2008 12:34 AM

So I guess i'll be putting the SCII on the backburner for now as my driver side motor mount completely failed. I will be replacing all the mount with new Hasport billet performace mounts, they retail @ $550

Oh well, still getting new wheels and some tint. I really need the tint because temps here are hovering around 115 and my mpg has dropped an estimated 15% with the Ac on

brucepick 06-20-2008 07:40 AM

I know how it is sometimes - planned mods stacked up in a holding pattern like aircraft while doing maintenance.

ebacherville 06-20-2008 09:39 AM

the scan gauge will help you out considerably, Its so worth the $150.. make it a priority on your list.. Wish my 87 CRX had ODB2 :(

sickpuppy318 06-20-2008 01:22 PM

I've read about you FULLRACE guys. Your project cars are AWSOME!!! Crazy attention to detail with flawless execution. So you designed some of those BEAUTIFUL robot welded manifolds??? SWEET! If you can eco-mod as well as you can performance mod, i'd think 60 (or 150)MPG is no problem.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Vince-HX 06-20-2008 04:06 PM

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Thanks for that props, its a really amazing job and i'm really grateful to have the opportunity to do what I do. :thumbup:

Man, all you guys that Crx's are making me sad. I had a cherry 91 Si as my daily 3 months ago but a truck turned left infront of me when I was driving and its beyond totaled and I should have died in the accident. Seatbelt didnt lock out and it was a 50 mph t-bone, crx vs Ford f-450. Wasn't my fault and my lawsuit is coming along just fine.

Here is a pic of my baby :(

SVOboy 06-20-2008 04:12 PM

Wait, you're one of the full-race guys? OMG that's cool.

Vince-HX 06-22-2008 02:22 AM

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Heres a few pix of my mirror block off plates and upper grill block off plate.

They were made out of a nice aluminum diamond plate sheet I had laying around from a dune buggy project. I know its not a completely smooth surface but its what I had and it looks blingin :cool:

Also attached is a pic of my vacuum gauge and its custom mounting system:thumbup: Its also my very best half tank @ 300 miles and it calculated out to just about 48 mpg

c0da 06-22-2008 09:17 AM

nice work, great mods on a great car. I remember when I was looking for a new car back in 98' I wanted the HX model and not a single dealer had the HX model on their lot. I think they were lieing and trying to push EX models on me. Anyways, I wish they still had the HX model in their civic lineup.

If you're looking for another mod, I'd suggest either the wheel well covers or a boattail.

BTW, what material did you use to block the upper and lower grilles?

Vince-HX 06-24-2008 11:53 PM

thanks

I actually jacked a few election signs this weekend for prototype wheels skirts:thumbup:

And i used aluminum diamond plate for the block off plates, sprayed quick with some semi-glass rustoleum rattle can.

On another note I picked up some new shoes today and swapped a few of them one (one had recently separated). On my scale they weighted in @ 28 lbs apiece with some nankang crap tires. But its better than the 35 lbs per wheel/tire that I had on there earlier. They are the factory Hx wheels and made by Enkei.

I checked the tire pressure before I put them on and they were @ 35, 70, 70, 50. The max psi on the tires is supposed to be 36 :eek:

some people:mad:

I'll get some pix tomorrow.

Last fill - 49.35 mpg, I can taste 50 and I haven't even begun the majority of my mods.

Vince-HX 06-25-2008 05:41 AM

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So i'm just diggin these wheels but I discovered the tires aren't really in driving shape, well not in "peace of mind" shape anyway.

My old ones are going back on and these are i'm going to polish the lip and paint them the same semi-gloss black as the plates. This will keep me busy untill I can actually afford new tires in a few weeks. I'm going to go with Sumitomo HTR-200s in a 185-65-14 factory size, I was thinking of going down to a 175-65-14 to shave 2lbs per tire but it would hurt rpms a little.

SVOboy 06-25-2008 07:50 AM

No love for the HX wheels? I'm sure someone here will want to buy them, :p

Vince-HX 06-25-2008 08:40 AM

oh no, theres much love. And i think ima full polish them now like this hatch

looks so cleanhttp://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...o/DSC_0055.jpg

cant go wrong for $150:thumbup:

Daox 06-25-2008 09:18 AM

Sounds like a good plan. Keep us up to date. The HX is such a nice car. If I wasn't fixing up my sister's Celica I'd find an HX for her.

c0da 06-25-2008 12:18 PM

Wish I could find some cheap rims as light as the HX ones. You could probably juggle those things!

Vince-HX 06-29-2008 01:01 AM

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The rims are pretty light and i'm having all sorts of fun polishing them right now, lol.


I have some new parts to add to the build though, a brand new auxiliary vacuum canister for those long EOC periods so I dont have to worry about my braking ability. It was free :thumbup:

I also mocked up turbo position for a Ac/full length radiator compatible manifold on one of my coworkers Crx. He has a fully built D series almost ready to go back in and he is going to use a Skyline turbo @ first then switch to a Disco Potato later on. My boss also wants one of these manifolds for his Ek coupe and I'm also building one for myself:cool:

They will be strictly prototypes for right now as they will incorporate some "tricks" we usually dont use.

I also picked up some 440cc injectors

I attached a pic of my baby gt17 turbo, should pump out 200 hp but thats gonna be pushing it pretty hard. I also plan to use a Aquamist HSF-5 setup for pre-turbo meth/water injection. But I wont be boosting for a few months.

Vince-HX 07-02-2008 11:26 PM

So last night I finished making some lower aluminum supports for some temporary wheel skirts and I pretty excited to see if they can push me over the 50 mpg hump.

The skirts are only going to be temporary because my current wheels are a little wider than the Hx's I have @ the powdercoater right now and I want a tight fit.

I want to finish these up tonight and get them mounted because I'm going to Vegas this weekend with friends and the total trip is about 600 miles, good test:thumbup:

On a side note, @ least 6 people that @ my work have started hypermiling after seeing my results firsthand. Its cool to see, and its funny to coach them a little, lol.

Vince-HX 07-07-2008 04:31 PM

64.69 MPG :eek:

that was with the wheelskirts on and mostly in city with hardcore pulsing and gliding.

It may be a fluke but this next tank will be a THE test.

The Vegas trip was very dissapointing. I was forced to drive much faster and with the AC on 100% of the time. Results were about 40mpg there and 36 mpg back. No drafting, not EOC and vtec-e and leanburn were not used. Plus there was the extra weight of the two passengers and luggage (approx - 450 lbs)

Wheelskirts held up under 110+ degree heat, rain, and quite a bit of time @ triple digit speeds:rolleyes:

Oh well, hopefully with help from the skirts I should be pulling 50+ tanks from now on

MetroMPG 07-07-2008 05:49 PM

Got a pic of the temporary skirts?

Congrats on the good results...

Vince-HX 07-07-2008 08:14 PM

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Heres a pic, I'll take a few more tonight

Quite a few people noticed and I met another hypermiler on my trip also.

Vince-HX 07-09-2008 01:48 AM

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The full side shot, it looks pretty dorky @ first but they are starting to grow on me. Plus the skirts seem to have a huge effect on my coasting but I also bumped up my tire pressure 5 psi so who knows.

Also doing some light tuft testing untill I can get a camera man, lol. I'm still getting quite a bit of turbulance around the mirror delete areas:( Maybe its the diamond plate's raised design causing it so I may remake some smooth ones. Also I'm getting a pretty clear picture of where the air detaches from the rear window and I hope to make some vortex generators @ the shop this weekend to maybe help that.

I also want to try some zig-zag tape to see if it helps a little.

MetroMPG 07-09-2008 08:09 AM

Thanks for posting.

Glad to see some tuft testing too.

As for the turbulence around your mirror delete, it's not likely the fault of the plate texture. It may simply be an A-pillar vortex, and there's not much you can do about that.

Vince-HX 07-10-2008 07:57 AM

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Woohooo for homemade vortex generators:thumbup:

I now have very good attached airflow over the whole rear window, my strings hardly move @ all which is really exciting, for me anyways:D

I used a pattern found on the gassavers forum and some scrap mild steel sheet. They were super easy to make, I love having all the right tools available.

I'm thinking about making a large batch of them and sending them to our powdercoater for a nice, gloss black finish. So if anyone wants a few just holler.

Oh, the current race car I'm working on has a unusual roof spoiler and the owner agreed to let me turf test it after we get it back together. Its a Subaru STI pushing a tad over 500hp and a few months ago it set a track record @ Firebird raceway on 91 octane. Its really an amazing car, I mean the stuff dreams are made of, 14k in just the coilovers, probably 100+k into the complete car :eek:

MetroMPG 07-10-2008 08:07 AM

Can't argue with yarn tufts - your application is just the type where VG's have a demonstrated effect. Any chance of getting that camera man for a before/after?

Vince-HX 07-10-2008 08:20 AM

I hope to cover the whole car in tufts by this weekend and get some footage of before and afters with the vortex generators in various locations. Right now I'm using braided nylon string but I think its a bit too heavy and I am going to try to find something lighter and more responsive.

I'm really glad they ended up working so well, I would have started a Kamm back if things would have went sour. And these VG's look really cool:cool:

Vince-HX 07-12-2008 01:07 AM

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I received my wheels back from the powder coaters and they look fantastic!!! Not a bad way to spend $85 but the powder did add 0.15 lbs per wheel, small price to pay.

Oh, I got stuck in some rain driving the other night and it was pouring but my rear window stayed completely dry until I stopped @ a light. And when I started driving again the water from the roof ran down the rear window in a few streams and no more droplets hit the window. These Vg's work and the tufts and water really prove it.:thumbup: And they are only going to cost $0.50 apiece to coat black.

So my plans tonight are to finish this Subaru and then start on some nice camera mounts. One that positions the camera about 4 feet back from the car and level with the roofline and one that positions the camera about 2 feet behind the car and 3 feet off to the side.

And I dunno how much you guys are into performance cars but I felt the need to attach a few turbo porn pix:D

And i'm estimating my current FE to be around 60 mpg


love it

Dust 07-12-2008 10:05 AM

Your turbo is bigger than mine. All the mods look good.

RLLRS8 07-12-2008 11:51 AM

That manifold in your pic is awesome looking.

SVOboy 07-12-2008 12:02 PM

Like the new wheels, looking forward to the future tuft testing!

Vince-HX 07-14-2008 12:10 AM

Thanks for the comments guys. This is one of the most fun projects Ive had the chance to do.

And that turbo is one of the smallest ones we have @ the shop but it still makes 375 hp, that a professional drift 240 btw:thumbup:

The manifold is one of my favorites and is meant for a RB26-RB25 in a R32-R34 Skyline chassis or S14-S13 240sx chassis. We have one customer making over 1,450 Awhp with that same manifold in a Skyline R34:eek:

And today the rain started pouring so no tuft testing on camera but I have noticed quite a few things while driving.

-Vg's seem to be effective between 35-65 mph

-Even opening the front windows a crack has quite an effect on the outer 1/3 of the tufts on the rear window. Interestingly the amount of the window being open has little effect on the tufts.

-Wind seems to be less of an effect @ freeway speeds, the Vg's make the car feel much more stable.

-No need for a rear wiper as my rear window drys itself even in pouring rain from 35-65mph:D

-I think some hybrid owners are jealous of my skirts, haha



Cant wait to fill and calculate my current mileage, I'm @ 300 miles and have a little over half tank left so I'm estimating 50-55 mpg.

metromizer 07-14-2008 12:25 PM

I can relate to your excitement... performance is performance, race or high mpg, it's very similar in many ways. Nice tig'ed turbo header btw, great craftsmanship.

Vince-HX 07-18-2008 02:34 PM

55 MPGs!!!! :eek:

Running the tank to empty would have netted 590 miles but I filled up @ 520. This is really cool, I remember times struggling to make 400 miles per tank before I knew how to ecodrive.

Also picked up a complete Z1 swap for $150 and going to swap the Vx tranny this weekend. I'm hoping the better gearing will push me to a consistent 60 mpg.


My city driving is getting great FE and if starting to feel weird NOT pulsing and gliding.

Currently I'm matching my mom's Prius FE, however my Hx does way better on the highway, hahahaha

Hybrid owners are suckers, cept for Insights:thumbup:

Vince-HX 07-19-2008 09:31 PM

Thats pretty good Fe with a b16, your probably not buzzing it to the moon and that where b16s really are fun, lol. I have a freshly machined b16 ready to be put together but I'm saving up for pistons and rods to build for boost later, want to hit between 5-600hp.

It doesnt look like I'm gonna get a lift this weekend so its probably a no go on the tranny. I did order some new tires though and they should be delivered mon or tues. I decided to go with Sumitomo Htr-200s in a 175-65-14. They will be a little balloony but weight in @ only 25 lbs per wheel combo:thumbup:


Soooo many projects so little time. I need to start really busting ass before school starts up again. Its tough to work a full 40 hour week and do a full 12 hour school sch and find time to work on your own car.

SVOboy 07-20-2008 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince-HX (Post 45354)
55 MPGs!!!! :eek:

Running the tank to empty would have netted 590 miles but I filled up @ 520. This is really cool, I remember times struggling to make 400 miles per tank before I knew how to ecodrive.

Also picked up a complete Z1 swap for $150 and going to swap the Vx tranny this weekend. I'm hoping the better gearing will push me to a consistent 60 mpg.


My city driving is getting great FE and if starting to feel weird NOT pulsing and gliding.

Currently I'm matching my mom's Prius FE, however my Hx does way better on the highway, hahahaha

Hybrid owners are suckers, cept for Insights:thumbup:

Congrats!

Vince-HX 07-25-2008 08:24 AM

http://a516.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...ab6a933113.jpg

Hypermiling and looking good doing it:cool:


I love the new shoes, very grippy and accel is up and RR feels a little better. I'm missing the rear skirts though, good thing I picked up a nice big sheet of aluminum to play with.

Gonna try and make some rear skirts that attach to the hub and move up and down with the wheel.

almightybmw 07-25-2008 08:57 AM

Ya know that almost fits a "sport modified" crowd look. Looks very clean and awesome.

Vince-HX 07-25-2008 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almightybmw (Post 47527)
Ya know that almost fits a "sport modified" crowd look. Looks very clean and awesome.

You know it would be nice to add a eco-sport modified category to this forum. People need to see that you CAN have your cake and eat it too.

Thanks for the compliments, my ultimate goal is 60mpg without looking like a spaceship. :cool:


And currently I have a blindspot mirror that I still need to mount on the driver side A pillar, gives me more view than the stock side mirror. I also keep my mirrors and wipers in the back so I can put them back on quick like a bunny if i need to.

SVOboy 07-25-2008 02:55 PM

What's up with the lines on the front fender/body? Dentage or am I seeing stuff?


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