Question for those of you who drive vehicles with "low power" engines
 

Hello everyone. I'm looking to buy a vehicle for fuel economy and I would like to hear some feedback When it comes to small displacement engines (1.3-1.5L), they make good city vehicles but what about highway driving? Is merging onto the highway safe? Can you merge on an uphill ramp?

I'm debating whether to buy a Civic CX with an 8 valve, 1.5L, 70HP engine or not. I wonder if this vehicle (and others like it, eg Geo Metro) requires a significant lifestyle shift, such as avoiding uphill ramps.

I owned a Civic CX, but the previous owner had installed a D16A6 (100 HP at the wheels) into it. So, I may not be the most qualified to answer. It still had the really long CX gears though.

I don't think you'd have to change your lifestyle, but you'll probably need to wring the engine out if you want to get up to speed in a reasonable amount of time.

My favorite car was a 25hp Subaru 360

Just requires an attitude adjustment

Agree that there is no lifestyle change in driving a car with no guts.

What is needed is an adjustment to your expectations and this will follow through to your driving style. Overtaking and freeway merging needs anticipation and planning, especially where the car requires written notice to accelerate.

:turtle:

Many years ago I drove a Honda 360 (2 cyl air cooled with a 4 speed crash box) and the local buses could win a drag race on a good day with 1/4 mile times measured with an egg timer! It never stopped me driving it on the freeway because I planned the merge and wrung its neck to fit into a slot in the traffic.

Plan ahead, have a back-out plan and be conservative and you will not have a problem.

Simon

Yeah. Right now I own a Volvo 940 2.3L Turbo. I don't have to think about highway merging at all. Don't get me wrong - it's not that I mind going slow and people zooming by me on the highway. I do 60 MPH on the highway all day long. But I do find sometimes find it stressful to merge onto highways when a lot of traffic is coming. That's why I'm thinking of doing the 16 valve swap.

But I'd like to hear more opinions before making a decision.

And at the time I drove the Honda as a road car, my other set of wheels was a 285HP 13B engined RX2 rally car.

Attitude and expectations are the key. Practice driving the Volvo with a block of foam rubber on the accelerator and see how you go.

Simon

I drove a Metro for 8 years, I commuted 60 miles per day. I rarely had it on the freeway, my commute is on rural 2 lane highways. I went from searching for fuel mileage to having fun with the car. I went from 55 mpg pig to 45 mpg with the 1.3L. Either way you don't just pull out and pass a line of traffic. I was fun with the 1.3 to race people, they just couldn't get their head around a fairly quick Metro. I have a 150 hp Saturn L now and I can pass at will.

They've got brakes.

When driving a slug on the highway I always made sure that I had really bright lights on the back to make people see me from a bit further back. These new LEDs make lighting up the back a whole lot easier than back in the day!

With cars built in the last 15 to 20 years, why compromise with sub-100hp engines? You can get nearly the same economy with a lot more fun factor.

Keep in mind i have only had 2 vehicles in 10 years of driving, the smallest engine was 3.2L and 220 hp.

What's your goal for MPG? If hp is a concern there are plenty of more powerful cars that can get into the 40's. My XFE is rated 155 hp with lifetime of 40 mpg with pretty normal driving.

That said when I had a 1990 Sentra 1.6 12 valve(90 hp?) I never thought of it as slow. 83 escort 3 spd auto was slow.

1997 Saturn SL1 sedan 100 hp 5 spd, power was never a thought, drove it faster than I do today so generally got 35 mpg.

a 1.5l Honda won't require much adjustment over any other 4 cylinder, if it's mated to a manual trans. 1.3 Geo engine probably starts pushing it, unless it's one of the later model 16 valve jobs, though that's just speculation. Gearing tends to make up for the smaller displacement.

1.5 or 1.6l is a nice size for a small (~2000lb) car, IMHO. 1.0l requires an attitude adjustment on the highway, though I rather enjoy it other than having to accelerate up a steep on-ramp.

A puny engine isn't slow... if the car isn't too heavy for it and you aren't hiding what little power you've got behind an automatic transmission.

Sure, stomping your right foot and letting cubic inches make your problems go away isn't something you can do any more, but if you're thinking about fuel economy at all, you should have left those days behind no matter what you're still driving. That said, I'm having a horrible year for mileage this year because my driving pattern changed radically. My pleasant (never thought I'd call it that) good mpg run to work in the mornings became a frantic run on the interstate between 70 and 80. Morning mpg in the high 50s turned into a struggle to keep it over 40, and I didn't see a single tank over 50 all summer.

But I could do those long, high speed runs and still turn in tanks in the 40s. Ignoring the still good mileage, I can do long, high speed runs. I can even move through traffic. You just need to pay attention to everything, predict what people are going to do and prepare yourself by getting ready to be in the right gear at the right speed at the right time. That's all.

On the plus side, when you don't need to drive like a maniac you're going to get some great mileage. On the other plus side, you can still drive like a maniac if you feel the need to. But the real adjustment is in driving for mileage- thinking ahead and taking a longer view than being first to that red light or passing that one car to be one car farther ahead in line. Once you get in the habit of conserving momentum, underpowered cars aren't underpowered- they just aren't excessively powered.

70hp in my opinion is enough to get you up to highway speeds quick. Take it from someone who went from DD a Kawasaki Ninja zx6r with some get up. Then jumping into a 67 vw bug. 40hp motor with 40 years on her, and I could get to 60 just like the best of them. Even now my 68 bus with the same style motor I can get up to 55 pretty quick. Like most have said its not such a lifestyle change its an attitude change.

70 is plenty of power

A small engine can get you up to speed fast enough if you are willing to rev it.
My '85 1.3 liter Civic was willing to rev, and so was I. We left many commuting racer boys behind. It had just a 71 hp engine, but it did not weigh much too.

The '86 VW Rabbit Deasel, that was another story. That was slow.
I got a speeding ticket because I forgot I was accelerating, it took so long that my mind wandered off (true story!)

My Insight accelerates very fast in town, but on the highway not so much. Again revving it to redline helps, except for economy.

In general small cars are fast when you go slow, and slow (to accelerate) when you already go fast.
So whether they serve you well or not also depends on what speed you prefer.

When it comes to determining the ideal speed, take a lesson from a pro:
https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8984378880/hC95513CD/
:)

While that 2.3L turbo is quite fun, it is by no means necessary. I've driven my uncle's S60 turbo on many occasions and it is a very quick car. Then, I'd jump into my 55 hp 1.0L Metro, not the fancy 1.3L, and get around without any issues. It probably sounds dumb to a lot of people, but the car is not slow. I've never had issues getting up to speed by the end of an on-ramp. I've also never felt 'unsafe' due to not having that extra horsepower. If you don't have enough power, downshift... its not hard.

Take the car for a test drive and make sure you hit an on-ramp or two so you can get a feel for it. I can pretty much guarantee that if you floor it you'll be well over the speed limit by the time you need to merge. So, why would you need more power (besides for fun which really isn't a 'need')?

I just sold my 100hp, 1.6 Renault. I regularly drove it weighing 2300kg (5000lbs), it wasn't great climbing away from traffic lights, but other than that I really had no issues with the power, in fact, a lot of the time I was being held up!

100hp in a sub 1000kg car is a rocket ship.

I drive a 90hp when new in 1990 (probably somewhat less now) 3000 pound 3 speed auto shaped like a brick every day loaded with 200-1000 pounds of mail and packages. It gets up to anything up to about 55 mph with the flow of traffic from a stop. I've only been on a freeway in one a few times and it wasn't the acceleration that was bad but the vague, 1/2 disconnected feeling steering and thin aluminum shell that made it white knuckle.

While I'm sure there are some places that would make it really difficult to get up to speed, I haven't found one. The problems I've had in freeway driving in my Insight come from people trying to merge going 10-20mph below the speed limit. They'll be going, say, 55-60mph on an on ramp when traffic is 70-75mph and due to their poor planning it makes things difficult for them and people in the rightmost lane.

If I'm the guy already on the freeway in the rightmost lane and they merge in front of me going slower than traffic and I can't go into the left lane, I'll have to decelerate to their speed. They speed up with ease, often going into the left lane to do 10mph over the speed limit and I'm down to 60mph trying to get back up to 70mph or so which isn't fun with traffic behind you.

If I'm behind the person trying to merge going slow, that again sticks me with trying to quickly make up the difference in speed between me and traffic.

But if I'm entering a freeway I've have no issues with my extra slowness (avoiding any assist) getting up to 75mph in time to merge.

Heh going slow isn't a problem, getting back into your weekend car with double horse power makes you feel like Jesus parting the red sea when you need to accelerate to pass to get to an exit.

**** my civic probably makes 50 whp the way I drive it and I love how it drives 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time im just to lazy to downshift to pass and that's the only time you'll actually miss the horse power

My current car is on the heavy side for a 1.3. About 1.2 tons.

The motor supposedly made 85 horses when new. If I had to guess how much it makes now... I'd say... uh... forty?

Takes forever to hit 60... about fifteen seconds with a dump-clutch start.

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Doesn't matter. I never have issues merging into traffic.

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My previous service vehicle was worse. A two ton diesel truck with about 75 horses. Half-a-minute to 60 mph. Could not overtake anything on a two-way two lane.

Got great mileage, though.

My first daily car was a 170hp '94 Celica. I was quite the overtaker. :D

The key is not accelerating, but maintaining the speed ;)

Now i drive a 75hp, one-ton Russian crapbox with a final drive of 3,4.


but yeah, patience is a big helper here.

My car is 1.5 litre small diesel with approx. 65 hp. Driving these cars is, how they say, " expression of life attitude" (citing one local automag).
"You are never in a hurry with this car." is my second favorite phrase from the review.
I must admit acceleration isnt strongest point, but so far it was sufficient. No problems with merging so far. One has to weigh the risks more carefully when overtaking, but thats all. I have no highways nearby though, and traffic situation here probably differs from yours.

Thank you for the awesome feedback. From what I'm reading 70 HP on a lighter Civic should be sufficient especially with a manual. Not fast, but not insufferably slow. I've never driven a Honda Civic before, that's why I asked for your feedback. This has been extremely helpful.

Enjoy!

It looks like I have to disagree with the common wisdom here. I moved out to Frederick, MD and live along US Route 15 (which turns into I-270 heading to the DC beltway).

This is not a road for wimpy* cars. Basically, you will see turns rated for 15mph, and short on ramps to 70mph traffic with *very* small spaces you are expected to fit into. Down in 270 you can expect situations nearly as bad (don't ask about the Urbana-I270 exit where you get to merge up a relatively steep incline). Also expect some of the worst drivers in the US, where tailgating is even more popular than college gameday.

Of course, this is the worst of both highway (high speed) and cityish (high traffic) together. If they aren't combined you can get away with such things (such as going East-West on I-70, the local highway with a much higher speed limit).

There's still a reason for the electric engine in hybrids. I can only hope that some car makers see that all you need is a [gas] engine like a Prius and the electric can be be as powerful as anything Tesla makes (this might take ultracaps or LiFePO4 batteries).

* an old 2l Focus has more than enough power (similarly a 90s 2l Breeze). I just can't imagine using the 1970s econoboxes that I learned to drive in, much less a classic beetle or similar.

Somewhere I have a picture of "Welcome to Maryland. Please drive gently."

Ask any Honda boy, Civics are fast! :D

Most civics are. I'm less sure about the CVCCs (what do you use for fuel?) that competed with the Datsun Honeybee I learned on. I suspect you might even survive with a CRX HV (50mpg! before hypermiling!), but I think I'd want modern safety standards on these roads (although for some reason it's I-70 between Hagerstown and Frederick (i.e. not the traffic nightmare I'm describing) where people die.

A low horsepower car with a manual transmission is fine. A low horsepower car with an automatic is the slow one.

My current ride has 117 hp, but I'm almost never above 3000 rpm so I'm only using (very roughly) half of that.

My current DD is a MT 04 Civic Hybrid... 88hp on tap from the gas engine. Much heavier than your earlier Civic.

I just checked, and the 0-60 times for both are nearly identical.

It's not a fast car, but at no point have I ever thought "this is dangerous." Plus, yours should be more fun, since Honda used the VTEC on mine to do valve-closing-on-coast. It just kind of wheezes out over 3500 rpms. You should get a nice extra kick around 3000k rpms and keep pulling much higher.

Sam

Playing underpowered crapcar trumps...

I win.

https://scontent.fmnl4-6.fna.fbcdn.n...82912164_o.jpg
https://scontent.fmnl4-6.fna.fbcdn.n...ad&oe=58C7F35F

34 roaring horses.

And it's diesel, to boot.

0-45 mph in a quarter mile, give or take. Never did find out how far you had to drive to hit 60.

Yes, that's me in the driver's seat. Grinning like an idiot.

-

And to think, just before that slalom run, I was driving a GT-R.

Kind of gives you a perspective what "fast" and "slow" really are.

Holy crap batman

I didn't know Japanese carmakers made diesel kei cars.

Is that a 660cc twin too?

Would love to import that.

It's more fun to drive a slow vehicle fast than a fast vehicle slow.

P.S. Old Microbus driver here. Do all Microbus drivers have silly grins pasted on their faces? I bet they do! :)

Haha that's great! I almost bought the flatbed version of that for my farm runabout. I ended up getting a Polaris Ranger side-by-side atv instead.

As others have said, you can do just fine with an 'underpowered' car. You may have to change your attitude & driving style a bit. You can't expect to crawl up an on-ramp, pull in to the travel lane and floor it to merge, for instance, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. You need to get a running start on steep hills instead of expecting to maintain constant speed, but if you're driving for economy, you should be doing that anyway. And you need to look ahead and anticipate, but again, you should be doing that anyway.

And don't be afraid to drop into 3rd or even 2nd to accelerate when needed. That's what the gears are for.

*2000 Insight, 1000 cc engine, not much battery assist left.

I got a chance to drive a classic Beetle a few months back... for the first time, ever (don't ask why it's taken so long).

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No power. But no brakes. No power steering, either.

Lovely thing. You only go as fast as you can go, and no further. But the unfiltered steering and controls, and the lightness of the car, make it feel like it's going quick enough.

793 cc twin, according to the specs... though I (SADLY) didn't get a chance to pop the engine compartment open for pics.

Suzuki is big in India, and India loves diesels, so no, it's not Japanese, even if it's Japanese (if that makes sense). A Maruti-Suzuki product, this thing. Don't know if it could pass the sniffer test, but surprisingly, it is supposed to be Euro IV compatible... direct injection, four-valve head (8V total) with a turbo and intercooler.

Won't set your pants on fire, but the low-end torque is enough to get you going quick.

Hmm, wonder how I could import that motor drivetrain combo?

How much do they charge for a Suzuki diesel tuk?

We don't have them, but we do have Bajaj and Piaggio Tuks. Both around 400cc, I think.

Mahindra is testing a diesel kei to bring in... but it has a thumper instead of a twin.

The Zuk is probably the cleanest small diesel package you can buy, since it's DI. But it will likely be expensive.

http://www.nordwestmobil.de/vespa-ap...-Kasten-01.jpg


I've thought about buying a Piaggio Ape tm 703 someday.

No diesel tax, and is classified as a motorcycle.

consumes 3,45L/100km/68MPG! :O

400cc diesel. The top speed is only 60km/h, but you can load 700KG of stuff on it.

I keep meaning to ask for a test-drive from the local distributor, but my issue is that I can't take it on the tollways around here.

With the traffic, a tollway trip from the metropolitan area to my place is around an hour to an hour and a half (it's only about twenty five miles.. yes, traffic is that bad). If I have to take local roads, it's about two hours or more.