Quiet motorcycles/scooters
 

I've started a new job recently that has me doing a very large amount of traveling. It pays well enough that even driving the 25mpg pig that is my 1996 Buick LeSabre is well worth it, but I would like to get back to two wheels.

Problem being that I do deliveries, and while space is not much of an issue, noise is, as sometimes my routes are long enough that I'm working past daylight, and discretion comes into play. So I'm curious to know if anyone is aware of an unusually quiet model, or, alternatively, an aftermarket exhaust manufacturer that is focused on silence rather than boisterousness.

Unfortunately, electric is strictly out of the question, unless someone makes an electric anything that can go 300 miles on a single charge.

ETA: I also have a dislike for CVT's, so I'd prefer to avoid those.

But loud pipes save lives, you got to know that :D

Anyway, I see you have a Suzuki Burgman 400. Is it not silent enought to fulfill your requirements?

:p

I've actually forgotten to remove that from my stable, but both the Ninja and Burgman are long gone. The Burgman, while the engine was quiet enough, has turned me off to the idea of CVT's, (especially so for high-mileage applications like I have currently!) so I should probably amend my inquiry to exclude those.

Noise is one thing that annoys me. My Yamaha V-Star 250, being a wanna be Harley cruiser, is loud. Most of the noise if from the exhaust, for my bike. In order to eliminate exhaust noise my plan is to install two mufflers from a Honda Grom that i have collected already. The Honda Grom is the quietest bike i have ever heard, the loudest thing on the bike is the chain.
I don't think anyone make "quiet" pipes, as i haven't seen any advertised.

Wind noise would be second, in terms of noise with my bike, for other bikes the loudest. As such, wind noise is a big factor. I added a big faring of corroplast to my bike, in order to eliminate wind buffeting hitting my helmet, it worked. A quiet helmet helps a lot in this department. What helmet do you have?

gil

I don't have a helmet at the moment, as my previous helmet (when riding the Burgman in the previous decade) is nowhere to be found. And it isn't noise for myself that is the concern, but rather the fact that I'll be tooling around neighborhoods doing my delivery route, sometimes as late as midnight, and I'd like to be as discrete as possible.

In that case I would say most Honda street bikes are quiet, I don't know about their cruisers. My friends CBR300 is relatively quiet. Also I have noticed that dirt bikes are louder for whatever reason.

I guess one of my tips would be that a quiet helmet makes long ride more present. Also exposure to loud sounds is bad for the ears.

Gil

I would go for something with a twin cylinder, the exhaust noise would be less pronounced than a single. Ninja 250 would probably be pretty quiet. Avoid motorcycles with gear driven cams, they are very noisy.

Water cooled engines helps too.

I wouldn't even want to try riding an air-cooled in the BS traffic I have to deal with, so that's a given. :)

Are there any gear driven motorcycle engines outside of the Italian breeds? (I ask as I'm not aware of any)

I was considering the newer Ninja 250-J, as I had decent results with the older 250-F, but they forgot to bring the FI to NA, so it got knocked off my short list. I'm too young to feel the cold in my bones come winter, and too old to fiddle with a bike that needs to idle before it can be ridden. :D

I rented a Honda NC700X for a weekend in France. It is as quiet as a sewing machine and I got over 65MPG flogging the thing through the Alps. The seating position is upright, i.e. good for traffic and comfort, and it has factory cases to carry copious amounts of stuff. Note that it has wimpy suspenders and brakes, i.e. newbie friendly, but should go for a million miles without trouble. Good utilitarian machine.

Honda VFR700/750/800's had gear driven cams. The last of the 800's went back to chain. Oh and the VF1000R had them but it only lasted a couple years.

Honda VFR 750 I believe

I had to read that again for that model name to stick in my brain.

The Grom is too small for the work I do, (I need someplace to put a LARGE tank bag), but I sure do want one now that I've seen it in person. I'm 5'6" and I still look damn silly on it. :D

Dude, $6K for a brand new '14 in Merrillville, IN. My riding buddy who is also 5'6" rode one and thought it was very manageable. I believe they make a lowering kit, maybe just the seat. Were I riding many miles for a living, this is the bike I'd buy, not the most exciting but clearly, clearly the most practical and utilitarian. And it has a FRUNK!

Oh yeah, and see if you can get the dealer to throw in the heated grips to close the deal. You'll need and love them.

2014 Honda® NC700X® Stock: LAST ONE 1800 OFF | Lake Cycle

http://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-conten...nda-nc700x.jpg

Honda PCX150 would be ideal.
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Honda PCX150 Mileage | Fuelly
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2015 PCX150 Overview - Honda Powersports
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Well, it might... Except it has a CVT, which I'm turned off to for high-mileage riding.

This has made it onto my short list due to have an undersquare engine, and the accompanying torque signature. Now if only a reasonably priced example would show up on the local Craigslist. I think I'm too old to be paying the new vehicle tax at this point. :p

What is the turn off? High mileage riding? I get 99 mpgUS at 55 mph on my PCX150. And my belt lasted 15,000 miles. Same as the first chain on my CBR250R.

Lack of ability to change final drive ratio, (and nearly ALL bikes, not just ones with CVT's, come with a "sportier" ratio by default, and higher revs than needed would just grind my gears constantly at this point), and maintenance.

I'll be doing 18,000 miles in 3 MONTHS.

I'll already be doing tire changes at least at this interval, unless the moto tire industry has a serious tire out there that competes with the lifespan of passenger car tires.

I've also ridden a Burgman 400 for 26,500 miles, I can say that the belt isn't the only thing you need to consider as far as maintenance goes.

So you would rather have to lube a chain every 500 miles? Which for you is every other day. Than do nothing but just ride a belt? Based on your experience with the mediocre fuel efficiency of the Burgman, you are under a preconception that you would have to change gearing on the PCX (Which is available via DrPulley sliders in the vario for $40 or final drive gear set for $150). Is 93 mpgUS not good enough?
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There are no high efficiency shaft drive bikes.
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Michelin City Grip tires will last 30,000 front and 18,000 rear. Tire cost for a PCX will be slightly less than a car. But it will use half of the gas of a Prius and costs 14% as much to buy. You can find used ones all day long for $2,000.
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The only other highway capable bike that can approach 90 mpgUS is the CBR250R if you really want to shift gears.

Lube? No. Dry chains last longer, as they don't collect as much garbage. Any o-ring or x-ring chain has all the lubricant it needs sealed into where it needs it. Keep chain clean, and no problems. Once a week, wipe off with a rag, I'm willing to do that much, at least.

But to the point: You have the CVT pulley faces, and there are 4 of them, and they DO WEAR. They change the characteristics of the transmission over time, and cause additional belt wear as they get further worn down. The clutch, while it lasted all 26,500 miles on the Burgman, was threatening NOT to for the last 5,000 or so miles.

Sliders don't really make a difference in the min/max ratio's, but merely how fast the transmission shifts through those ratios. For reference, I saw a MILD change in engine characteristics running 50% heavier (homemade) sliders. I suspect the heavier sliders had something to do with a bearing failure at 25,000 on the Burgman.*

An aggravating circumstance is that I'm currently driving a slushbox in the car, and it's driving me bat-**** insane. (Well, I mean, I already am, but moreso...)

My Burgman peaked at 81 MPG. It had a LOT more on tap, so does the PCX. It's rated for 100, actually. But the Stella 4-stroke is rated for 140+, with a similar engine, except for air-cooling, which I've heard generally lowers MPG.

And whatever a bike gets stock is NEVER good enough. I thought that was consensus on this forum. :D

And I would hope the PCX had significantly cheaper tires. I used to pay $50 for my Burgman tires, I dropped $125 each on car tires last time around.


*Said bearing failure involved the ball bearing immediately behind the front pulley suddenly shifting it's inner race to the left about 1/4" during operation, which forced the pulley into the housing, shutting me down temporarily. (Not violently, but it made enough racket in the early morning I couldn't continue riding) I shimmed the housing and rode another 1,500 miles on said bearing (as replacement required a COMPLETE engine teardown), but it concerned me greatly the entire time.

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You have many strong preconceptions so there is no point in me discussing this with you any further. Good luck getting a chain and sprockets to last more than 5,000 if you never lube it.
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Again you have apparently never really read up on how the DrPulley sliders work to increase gear ratio on both ends. Engineering genius, where each surface dimension is optimized to do it's specific job. Unlike a round roller. Very cool design. I wish i had thought of it. And they last forever.
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https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...4181b9af1ff4ae
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Burgman 400's are showing about 60 mpgUS on Fuelly.
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Suzuki Burgman 400 Mileage | Fuelly
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Air cooled is usually better on fuel economy due to the much higher cylinder head temps and no parasitic drag of a coolant pump but they make less power and are less reliable.

No wonder some small motorcycles targetted to under-developed markets have chain covers, so the chains wouldn't collect residues when properly lubed.

DuPont dry wax chain lube with Teflon is my recommendation. Every 500 miles as stated in every motorcycle owners manual as the industry standard lube interval. It's not so much for the chain's pins as it is for the exterior of the chain where it runs on the sprockets.
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Amazon.com: Finish Line Dupont Teflon Chain-Saver Dry, Wax Lubricant CS0110101: Automotive
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18,000 miles in 3 months, assuming your getting paid IRS minimum of something like $0.50 a mile, that's $9,000, if you keep that up for 6 months it'd cover a brand new Mirage, and have lower operating cost than most bikes and scooters.

I've done 3,000 mile months and had to replace a rear tire within that month.

NC700 is a neat bike, 65 estimated mpg is pretty good. Probably $150 mounted per front tires, will last 9000 miles, $0.017/mile. Rear tire about $200 mounted, maybe 6000 miles, 0.033/mile. That's $0.05 per mile tires only. Maybe you can mount your own as knock that down a little bit. $0.04/mile in fuel.

Somewhere where around $0.10 per mile operating cost or equal to a 25 mpg.

Here a spreadsheet I think someone else on here created kind of neat to play with an input different cost associated with vehicle operation.

This is a decision that will ultimately be made based on the economics of price per mile over the life of the vehicle. This would include depreciation, insurance, licensing as well as maintenance costs. Consider availability of parts and service to minimize down time. The issues of safety and comfort must be considered. In Ohio there is snow and cold six months of the year. This could require snow tires or dual sport treads. A liquid cooled engine would allow for a heater core inside a fairing.

I'm not paid per mile, but per delivery. I average more than that minimum, though.

I've ridden in snow without, though having a car now, I might opt to take that when the weather is rough.

Yeah, why can't I find those here without stepping into a fabrication shop?

Oh, I did look into those when I had my Burgman, but they can only do what the pulleys themselves will allow, nothing more.

To clarify: the sliders don't control the min/max ratios. The pulley sizes and angles do. The sliders control where in the overall ratio range the transmission is at any given moment. Stock sliders can tend to "downshift" at very high speeds, limiting top speed and increasing revs at high cruising speeds, while the Dr. Pulley's force the CVT to stay in it's top ratio once spun up. This gives the illusion of a ratio change, without actually changing the ratios.

DrPulley sliders do actually change the top ratio on many scooters including the PCX. The stock rollers run up against the end of the ramps before the pulley halves are touching, forming the limit of travel. There is always virgin metal that the belt never touches on the outer portion of the front pulleys with the rollers. The sliders are thinner at the side that comes up against the end of the ramp so they travel out further, moving the variator through additional range of motion to take the belt all the way out to the edge. It is a cheap and easy 7% increase in top speed at redline and the stock 18gm weights are too heavy anyway. My 12 gm sliders pull at about 7,900 rpm. 11 gm might be even quicker with the rpm even closer to the 8,300 rpm power peak.
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There are a couple final drive up gear kits available but I am content with a 71 mph top speed and 100 mpgUS on 55 mph back roads for now. If I want to run 70 on the highway to work, I take the CBR250R and get 90 mpgUS.

I think you might find that the DrPulley's do as I described: make the variator stay in it's highest ratio even when max throttle is applied.

Though, I'm willing to concede the possibility that the PCX is different from the Burgman. (I honestly don't know) On the latter, the pulley's simply did not move far enough to use up this virgin metal. I removed the rear spring to see how far they do move, and it's to the edge the belt makes in the pulleys, no further.

Well again we disagree. I find that the transmission is more responsive with the sliders. Possibly just from the lighter weight but it also feels like the sliders move in the ramps with less sticktion than the rollers. Providing an efficient drop in rpm when cruising around town at 5,500 rpm but quickly revving up to 7,900 rpm any time you pin it.

If you install sliders in a well used variator, the belt travel will get hung up on the groove even though the sliders have not reached the end of the ramps.
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Anyway, I highly recommend the Honda PCX150 to anyone doing urban delivery that is fuel conscious and can get by with 65 mph. Maintainance costs will only be slightly less than the best car but it will use half the fuel. And even at the cheap price of $2.79 / gallonUS, you will save $2,000 per year over 80,000 miles. In Europe where gas is $8.00 / galonUS, riding a 125 class scooter instead of a car offers huge money savings.

As an update, I ended up buying a 2006 Suzuki V-Strom that was cheap and now, and while the machine itself is well up to the task of carrying me around on my route, it's tall (I'm not), and not comfortable to be on for long periods for me. Though it's doing respectable for fuel economy, reaching for 70 mpg on a rev-happy 650cc engine.

Ergonomically, however, I'm pining for my Burgman again, because I know I could do the miles in that saddle. But sorry, no, Sendler, I still cannot get past my dislike of CVT's. :p

CVT's are not as efficient as chain drive, but the CVT's are simpler to operate and maintain. Just guessing, but probably also cheaper per mile than chains, oil & sprockets.
In their own right, CVT's are always in the correct gear. Again maybe not always at the most efficient ratio, but close enough for the task and it is all automatically done requiring no other input than simply changing the throttle. CVT's are simple, but effective - geared transmissions with chain drive are more complex, but more efficient. Another alternative with a geared transmission is a belt driven final drive. Nearly as efficient as chain drive, but cleaner with no oily mess, low maintenance and quieter than a chain. It's all about what works best for you. BTW, for scooters, insurance is likely to be less costly as well.

Prioritize your requirements to establish positively what you desire (plus the degree of flexibility in your criteria) Then do research. Ask about what are considered quiet bikes (as you are doing here since that seems a priority) find bikes with belt drives if you would consider them acceptable, consider bikes of acceptable engine size, initial and maintenance costs and any other criteria you deem most important in your decision. Weigh your options as you find them then decide which best meets your criteria.

What ever works best for you since the "best" is subjective. Unless there is a more specific objective like the objective of simplicity; then CVT would be the choice - objective of higher efficiency; then manual or automatic geared transmission with belt or chain final drive would be a better choice.

But getting good help in your decision would be easier if we knew more of your criteria and its order of importance. That way you wouldn't need to sound snippy when someone makes a suggestion that you think irrelevant or less important and people would be less inclined to question your motives in your choices. No sense in arguing semantics of what is better for you when you could already have it laid out.

Ideally, what I would like to see is a CVT that can be operated automatically or manually... ditto for the clutch.

Anyway, I think any bike could probably be modified with some sort of noise baffling after the muffler to make it quieter than it might already be.

EDIT: OH! I see you got a bike already anyway... but already seems you are not completely happy with it... later possibly come to regret getting it & utterly despise it because it is not comfortable.

My solution to tire longevity and lower rpms is to use passenger vehicle tires (commonly referred to as "car tires") on the rear of my scooters as I have done for the past 7 years. On my Honda Reflex 250 scooter I changed the tire at 35,000 miles only because I wanted to try a different size car tire. It could have lasted another 2 or 3 thousand miles more. Typical scooter rear tire life for the Reflex scooter is 5 to 8 thousand miles. Mine usually went 6K miles.

Bike tires are not likely to ever equal car tires in longevity for certain reasons.

#1 reason why not) A car tire uses the full width of its tread face and thus shares the load and wear across a larger tread area per revolution than a bike tire which, because of its arced tread face, can only use 1/4 to 1/3 of the available tread at any one time. And since bikes typically spend most of their life time upright, it is no surprise then that the center-line of the tire wears out first and most and faster than a car tire.

2) Car tires are often a larger diameter than the bike tire they replace. This gives a slight mechanical advantage in reduced rolling resistance. (along with the tread width advantage) A taller/larger diameter tire will last longer than a similarly designed and built tire of smaller diameter while carrying an equal load... even more so if it is wider as well. But a larger diameter tire is a geometry change that may have a less than desirable affect on handling qualities. On the plus side though, a larger diameter tire would effect a taller final drive ratio which would be better; fuel economy wise that is.
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3) Even with dual compound tires, (harder along the center-line of the tire for longevity, softer compound outward from there for grip in turns) the center-line of a bike tire will wear out first. And that, even though car tire rubber compound is softer than bike tire compound; durometer number (a measure of material hardness) will show this difference in car tire VS bike tire compound hardness to be true. It is an often assumed misconception that bike tires have softer compound than car tires... they don't

4) Load capability for a car tire would typically be higher than that of the bike tire it would be replacing. Significant physical aspects of bike tires would need to be changed to increase load bearing capability; an attribute which would benefit longevity.

5) Tires could be made to last longer by using even harder rubber compounds, but as a result would have less grip. A bike tire could possibly be made to get near to the longevity of a car tire, but it would look an awful lot like a car tire (wide, flat tread section) and it would likely have similar handling attributes that car tires exhibit when used on bikes. Those attributes may be found to be unacceptable by many riders and the manufacturers are not going to make tires that don't sell very well because they don't have desired handling qualities that most riders want.

There is no conspiracy by bike tire manufacturers to make tires that have poor longevity to a captive group of bike tire buyers/users. Bike tire manufacturers make the best tires they can for bikes and car tire manufacturers make the best tires they can for cars. It is the rounded profile of the bike tire that makes them so smooth and consistent in turns, but it is also the very thing that causes them to have limited wear life. As it is with most things, changes are trade offs... gain this but lose that. C' est la Vie. (that's life)

Using automobile tires on any two wheeled vehicle is a very bad idea.

EDIT:
I will not debate this as I consider doing so tantamount to arguing with a potted plant. Following is an in depth, rational analysis that should dissuade any reasonable individual from considering this practice.

http://www.ridermagazine.com/browse-...torcycles.htm/

It seems like using a small car tire on the rear of a motorcycle would be a bad idea by those that have never tried it but the reports by those few who actually have are very positive even with regards to handling. You are not going to have the same consistant performance when dragging a knee but for general commuting lean angles, a car tire on the rear seems to work out very well.

I wouldn't feel confident to use a square-treaded tyre in a motorcycle, unless it had a side-car :D

But until a few years ago it was not unusual to see some folks using VW Beetle tyres in the rear of the Honda CB400/CB450 from the 80's.

I wrote about doing tire changes at that interval when my short list included only bikes that had no suitable darkside available, such as the CBR250.

Yes, I'm crazy enough to darkside, but thanks for trying to convince me nonetheless. :thumbup:

Speaking of which, a CT is sitting on the bench right now, waiting for the last vestiges of rubber to disappear from the rear on the 'Strom.

Yep, it was definitely an impulse purchase. Regret? No. I feel happier in pain than I do driving my car, so worth it. (Now, my helmet, which is also giving me grief, THAT I regret, but it's not an expensive mistake, and one I can more easily rectify, next paycheck) I'd still like to address the pain, though, as my body does demand the use of the car more frequently than the 'Strom.

To outline my requirements more clearly, of course silence is my most important requirement. The 'Strom, while not as quiet as I'd like, still seems to be acceptable, as I hear no echoing coming from buildings in city environments, or closely packed neighborhoods. A ride along with my father has him describing it as "barely audible" with his windows down. I suspect my riding style of "lugging" the engine at 25-35 mph speeds contributes to this, so perhaps a great many more models than I thought would satisfy my quiet requirements.

I'm unwilling to use a CVT, from the point of first-hand experience with it's durability, and the "disconnected" feeling it has which is not totally dissimilar to an automatic in a car. (This contributes partially to my greater happiness on the 'Strom, over the car, which has a hideous automatic, even for a car) Efficiency factors into that, but as there is no engine which appears (unmodified) in both a manual and CVT form that I'm aware of? difficult to get accurate numbers on what an engine COULD do if not ham-strung by the CVT.

Insurance no longer seems to be an issue for me. Those grey hairs are starting to come in handy. Progressive quoted $75 each per year for my 1983 Nighthawk 550 (more of a toy than a serious ride at this point), and the 'Strom. This is liability only, but I doubt I'd get coverage on a newer bike anyway. (Financing is for fools, and I've outgrown my foolishness :D)

The ultimate in simplicity would probably be a chain in a proper chain case. I could see that going for a hundred thousand miles, without maintenance.

HE NEVER TRIED IT! HA ha. I read the whole thing, waiting for him to mount a car tire on the back of his bike and test it but he never did.