Replace your car battery with capacitors!
 

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Replace your car battery with capacitors!




So, would you like to shed 25-30 lbs. of dead weight from your car...???


If so, check this out.



DIY 12V BoostPack.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJao1xLe7w



Think you need large capacitors to do the job ?


Think again...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x_kYq3mHM



Mini BoostPack 12V Capacitor Car Battery Hybrid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8miq6sDy0wA

Author's website.

12V BoostPack



I'm going to do this... :D


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I wonder what the long term effect on his car computers will be.

If this works so well, I have to wonder if race cars and or track cars are already into this technology.

God help him if those capacitors are made in China.

regards
Mech

Maxwell Technologies (world class)

United States
Switzerland
Germany
China

Maxwell Technologies Company Overview Ultracapacitors, Microelectronics and High Voltage

Leader in Ultracapacitors

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Thanks red :)

Did I miss where he said what the capacitors cost in the first vid?

Capacitors have self-discharge.

Couple that with the fact that the caps don't have a lot of amp-hour capacity, and your car will undoubtedly pull a tiny trickle of current to keep your clocks and settings in order...

So unless you plan to charge the car after it sits a few hours (which will undoubtedly result in a totally dead capacitor bank), you'll need a battery.

And then you've defeated everything.

Neat idea though as a boost option. If you could get 6 seconds of cranking out of a bank of them, it would be nice to have in winter.

2000+ cranking amps for the win ;)

Edit: Also without inter-cell balancing, a single cell could (theoretically) be overcharged by the cars alternator, resulting in a nasty explosion (or just the cap venting, YMMV).

Yes, he did say. The smaller pack was built with 6 capacitors that cost, IIRC, something like $10 each. The first pack, with bigger and cheaper capacitors, I can't recall what eh said they cost (or if he said :( )

When you watch the videos, you'll see how he tests and answers these problems... the "mini-boost pack" lasts a whole weekend in one test, cranking the car after three nights without a new charge from the ALT. For longer duration, he ultimately hybridizes the "mini boost pack" with a small battery.

Really quite cool. But I would think that the benefit in weight-loss causes a problem for FE by loading on the alternator, which will have to charge the capacitors pretty often. This might be a fun way to attempt to copy Mazda's capacitor charging regenerative braking system.

Just gonna borderline disclaimer: don't believe everything you see on YouTube.

I wouldn't mind seeing further independent testing regardless.

Heh. Today my roommate mentioned someone calling a radio show and mentioning the research that he did on YouTube. The host asked "Wait, what?"

I like it and understand it well, but the thing I cant put together in my mind is headlights on alternator runs constant or nearly without a well to draw from.
So figure all Led bulbs would help but not stop constant generation cycle.
Other is about discharge rate, there are slow and fast discharge styles and his appear to be fast ones so I am not sure how this is saving anything if car is driven from dusk to dawn ever.
Would like to see testing results from somebody who has amp gage to investigate battery condition after 1 hr at night.
Very good but mabe not eco. would make awesome booster unit though for yall diesel guys who have double batt set ups in trucks. dump a batt add a cap bank instead.

that's what I was thinking. oil_pan4 made a lithium ion pack for his diesel and I thought this might be a bit cheaper of an option along with ample cranking.

I had the same reservation about the "eco" possibilities. And these comments are close to what actually seemed to motivate the guy: he was told by a mechanic doing a routine check that his battery only had 200 cranking amps left and would not start the car in winter. He says he did not want to buy another battery just for that purpose and that got him started on this...

Mazda is using capacitors like this to charge from regen braking really quickly (as they can) and then shut off the alt and trickle the charge into the system (or something like that). Seems to benefit their cars about 2 or 3 mpg.

This is why it needs to be a hybrid.

From Maxwell Technologies.

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yeah I get that too redneck but cant imagine the A/H of that battery being very high while Amp draw of low beams is. not to think hi beams or situations like rain at night then its defrosters low beams and wipers.
Im thinking its great for something driven during daylight hours.
It could be tested although the math doesnt seem probbable for many applications.
Im not implying that the car will fail outrite but if amp draw is high like my rainy night scenario you may get a dead battery like he did jumping off his lawn mower.

I watched the 2nd and 3rd videos the other day and I wanted him to pull the plug wire out of the center of the distributor (if cars have those today) and see how long the starter would crank that way.

I'll bet he killed that battery by hooking up the lawn mower backwards.

Why not use both?
Capacitor backed Lithium power.
I already found that the LiFePO4 batteries do not like the cold at all.
Capacitors shouldn't really care how cold it is.

D cell battery sized 350F 2.7V capacitors
Each string of 6 capacitors would give me about 1 second of cranking power.

"Little Blue" is way overdue for a new battery.

So I ordered the parts to make the same Hybrid battery shown in the last video.

We're going to find out if this will meet our needs. ;)


:)


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This was my thought too, including using the Maxwell capacitors (and I'll claim that it occurred to me prior to the release of the Mazda 6).

The amount of charge a capacitance can hold is non-linearly dependent on the voltage of the that it is holds. I don't know what is done in the Mazda but I would think that substituting a 24V alternator would make it easier to implement capacitor charging. (Removing/altering the voltage regulation on a 12V alternator might work as an alternative.)

Many alternators are manufactured in 24V and 12V versions that are physically interchangeable. With that done, what is then required is voltage regulation (switch mode for efficiency) between the capacitor and battery.

In order to extract all the charge out of the capacitors it would have to both drop and boost the voltage, although the majority of charge could be extracted with just the drop.

It's not for me atm but I think it should be fairly straightforward to do.

Hey redneck might use a motorcycle batt or similar sized for a night driving set-up.
Im sure one of our electric car engineers here can figure up a amp hour requirement for night driving. shoot those guys have thier loads calculated to the last mv.

Any update on this? I'd like to get my power to weight ratio up.

I didn't watch the videos yet but thanks for the post, I might be back to consider things about a car battery.

I think the point is that a typical battery has a good amount of Ah on tap for cranking purposes but needs to be big to deliver the necessary current, which is where the capacitors come in; When the power demand is higher than the battery can supply, the voltage in the battery drops faster due to internal resistance and the capacitor will then help provide more power for a short period of time.

When my battery needs replacing though, I will probably just grab an AGM battery with a healthy amount of CCA over what is required and forget about it. The capacitors may extend the life of the battery but I could just buy another battery with that money.

How would the computers be affected differently than with a standard battery?

So do batteries. From what I've read, lead acid batteries discharge at 5% per month. What is the self discharge of a typical ultra capacitor?


Does the more frequent cycling of the alternator reduce efficiency? What is the efficiency of charging a battery compared to charging a capacitor?

Why would this reduce MPG?

I think that is one of the advantages. Like ICE's, alternators have efficiencies that vary with (alternator) speed and load. Having the capacitor as a buffer allows the alternator efficiency to be optimised more readily. (Using the capacitor's higher charging current capability.)

I have purchased the ultra caps and LiFePo4 battery pack. Just need to find time to work on it. One problem though is that the caps are now PCB mount, not tab mount anymore. This will require a different way of attaching them together in series and I'm not sure on the best way to do this.

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Any updates?

I see a lot of people complaining about the 12v battery longevity on Priuschat, and I wonder if it could be replaced entirely with this "boostpack" supercap/battery combo.

I'm still curious if the frequent cycling of the alternator would cause more wear, and even more curious about the efficiency of charging capacitors/LiFePo vs a lead acid battery. Specifically, what percentage of the input charge is captured and stored, and what is wasted. Self-discharge rates would also play a role in the overall efficiency.

Do supercaps self-discharge at higher rates than regular capacitors? I realize the answer will vary depending on what type ( electrolytic, etc).

Because it's a static charge, capacitor charging and discharging is very efficient, like in the high 90's%.

That's what I thought. No chemical change occurs in a capacitor charge/discharge, so the process should be efficient... charging the LiFePo, however, is a chemical change, and I have no idea what the efficiency comparison of that is to lead/acid, nor do I know what the self-discharge rates of any of these things are.

Any update to this? I'm really curious to see any benefit...

I've been very busy lately. I'll try and get this done over the next few weeks.

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Yes I have seen the lasersaber youtube post but he has shown nothing currently. I am considering this but with ultracaps. There voltage rating is to low and cost serious cash.
I am hoping to salvage a 11 volt 16ah battery this way..........

mazda does this with the new skyactive vehicle

plus they have higher cycle life. Ebay has listing for voltage stablizer..... a basic capacticor bank in small box ....the claim is bettery mpg and better power distribution. At 60-90 dollars may go my own way..........

I have a lot experience using the Mazda Skyactiv system, it fully charges in about 6 seconds of deceleration/braking in gear. I think the alternators are high output 12/24v switching. I can get good mpg gains by using it, adapting your driving to take advantage of it etc

Its basically a kinetic energy recovery system which is where the efficiency gains come from, using otherwise wasted energy & converting it into stored power that provides about 2-6 mins of power Dependant on whats switched on.

This is neat, it's good to see it working in practice. I think a car pulls like 1-2W when it's switched off, which is far higher than the leakage current of a capacitor. However, to be able to leave the lights on at a stop for a while after the car hasn't been used for a week or two for example without having the voltage dip too low, I would throw a battery in albeit a lighter one.

Originally I was thinking of replacing my battery with a 36Ah Shorai (at 300 bucks it's basically 3 times the cost of an AGM lead acid battery, and supposedly they can tolerate much more cycling so it might eventually pay for itself), but seeing this makes me think a small (lithium?) battery plus capacitors for starting might be the better solution.

I'd be interested in doing this on my Lupo 3L as its has a "massive" size battery in the boot, considering its a tiny lightweight car with a 1.2 diesel engine the battery is the same size as a 4.2L truck one.

I think running this in conjunction with a small 12v battery would be the way to go.

Here's a new video. This could easily be the future of car batteries. Not only is it an easy way to lose weight from a car, but then you can phase out 35 pounds of toxic lead acid batteries from every car. Costing about the same price also helps!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUXM1XuLUIs

Nice update on this vid... he has learned a bit since his early efforts.