Retaining heat use during EOC
 

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but around here it has sure cooled off quickly. Just last week I was going to work and it was 60F out at 7 in the morning. Today it was 34F. So, I was using my heat today. And of course with P&G you kind of loose nice warm heat after a few seconds of EOC. A few more seconds later and its not real warm at all. A bit longer and you may find yourself turning down the fan speed so it doesn't blow cold air on you. Of course, as soon as you bump start, you're jacking the fan speed back up to get the heat back! This is obnoxious to me, so I would like to fix it. Its also a detriment to defrosting when you first start driving. This causes me to run my engine more just so I can stay safe and see.

My first thought thus far is to put in a small 12V coolant pump that runs when the engine is not running. It can be put directly on the 5/8" heater core hose. There seem to be more and more small coolant pumps available as more and more hybrid and start/stop systems are put in place. You can pick one of these up for about $36 on amazon.

12V coolant pump

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1571146371

I'm very open to other ideas for retaining heat use with the engine off, but this seems to be the simplest I can think of.

The next step would be how to turn it on only when the engine is not running. I don't really have any thoughts on that so far, so I would love to hear you guy's thoughts on how we could do this.

On the ranger, I built a pumped tank system and use a 12v 50 amp solar panel dump heating element, but it is my primary heat /defrost source. You only need pumped storage because you can expand your coolant system. You could use a car coffee heater or two to keep your tank warm. Add a high temp thermostat and waller you're golden

Otoh, isn't being warm anti efficiency?

Hate to be that guy, but: How much is the fuel savings difference between engine off coasting and engine on coasting(maybe dfco)?
Interesting idea, still.

My first steps would be engine coolant heater so I start off in the morning with reasonably warm fluid, and a grill block. I tend to run the fan on the lowest setting unless I'm trying to defrost/clear a window because I don't like the extra noise, and it's just about as effective at warming the cabin (hotter air rather than more warm air). Then I have seat heaters which are quite effective and very economical to run.

Interesting idea with the 12v pump though.

I was gonna go with what will this save, but it's DAOX so I figured that was unnecessary.

Another thought along redpoints line: oil filled room heater before driving. Heavier coat while driving. After all, they DIDN'T have car heaters in 1908.

When I drove school bus many of them had electric recirculating pumps. The best method was to shut off the engine and turn on the recirculating pump, as it only pumped from the engine to the heater cores. The radiator cooled off very quickly and the thermostat closed, but the hot engine would heat the cab for an hour or more. The running engine kept coolant going to the radiator and would actually cool it off faster, circa 15 minutes for an idling bus engine.

Sorry for the incomplete thought: the point was that your idea should work fine, though I imagine you couldn't sit and use it long term, but for 10-15 minutes it would probably stay warm, and certainly enough to take care of EOC. as for wiring, if you have a toggle kill switch, you could maybe figure a way to have the toggle disconnect your fuel injectors, and at the same time cut power to a normally closed relay that runs this little pump. Of course the pump power would have to also run through ignition, or else be manually toggled off when you shut the car off or drain the battery dead.

I once owned a saab 900. Bought it because the "warmest winter car ever" - reputation. Zero warm air to the cabin. So i drove around with big coat, big furhat and big warm mittens. So yeah, warmer clothing is one way to do it.

As for the circulation pump itself, you could buy it second hand even cheaper from a junk yard. Some cars have a pump like that, for circulating coolant after shutdown, if necessary for cooling. Fans also run during this time. I believe vw t4 vans have this feature? Correct me if i'm wrong.

Even though the Mirage's engine would have less heat to dissipate, I guess the proportion between engine size and interior space would lead such setup to be quite effective. As a last-case scenario, adding a small supplemental coolant heater might help somewhat.

Great idea again Daox! I see some pre trip heaters might be good for cold mornings. Ever see one like this? Kat's 13150 1500 Watt Aluminum Circulating Tank Heater

Try running the exhaust through the cabin.

With a water jacket you can also have thermal stability.

In something as inefficient as an IC a lack of heat should not be a problem :S

This wouldn't work in my K24 Insight. I think I'll need to insulate my engine block because if I'm running the heater, even with the engine running full time, it takes forever to get up to temperature.

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Easy peasy...

Wire the coolant pump via a relay into the oil pressure idiot light circuit. Idiot light on - coolant pump on - idiot light off - coolant pump off.

Should work perfectly with the EOC (engine off coasting) technique.


:turtle:

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That's actually brilliant, bravo.

Excellent replies guys! Thanks for jumping in. :thumbup:

As it is, I do have a bunch of warm up mods done to the Mirage. I am currently running:
- 1000W block heater
- Coroplast lower grill block
- 3d printed upper grill block
- Sealed hood gap with weather stripping
- I'll soon be reinstalling my warm air intake for the winter


In my experience there is a very large gain from going from DWL to P&G with the engine on. There is another fairly sizable gain from going to P&G with the engine off. If I had to guess, its around 5 mpg on the Mirage which is getting around 55-60 mpg.


I do have a block heater installed. Its a 1000W Kats type circulating tank heater. This definitely helps things out.


Ironically, I checked ebay for used pumps and found them to be the same price or higher... :confused:


That is perfect! I wanted to stay away from complicated controls and that does it. :thumbup:



I also have a 110V cabin heater. But haven't installed yet. I think that will definitely help with wanting to get heat asap. I'm hoping it also will help with defrosting.

Hot water bottle under seat? Or between legs?

I bumped my best tank from 45 to 51 just by adding EOC just on 10 or so hills for a tank, normally those hills would have been partially DFCO or N coasting.

They had portable kerosene heaters.

As it takes more than 45-miles to bring a vehicle fully to operating temperature (anything less reduces life), the length of your commute (not stated) is where to start. Rather, of what road types does it consist?

I’d choose the longer non-stop route, and leave earlier. It’s pretty easy to chart average mph. Leave early enough, and there’ll be a point where stunt driving is shown for what it is: accelerated vehicle degradation. There’ll be a trade-off somewhere between distance and fuel burn. I know what is with my Peterbilt in a metro area. (Number of stops is the hardest thing to overcome).

If you’re forcing the vehicle to adapt to you, it’s a bad business. Involves too much reduction of book maintenance intervals. Also requires regular fluid analysis.

If the car just doesn’t matter (reliability & longevity), then it just doesn’t matter whatever else one does (after the fact changes).

I wouldn’t ever choose to sacrifice utility. Means I own the wrong vehicle. Second, an increase in comfort is nothing to sneeze at. Avoid the first and highlight the second.

Let us know your change in morning departure time, and average mph change. (Same goes for evening).

If you never ran the car on a non-work day, (say, all weekend; ALL personal errands joined to the commute on one or two days), what would be the change to the budget? Reduction by gallons & dollars of non-compensated miles? (as work or school implies payment; present or future).

If you don’t know, you should. MPG isn’t a stand-alone. Context is the only thing gives it meaning. Making claims about how far you can go on $7 of gasoline means I’d flunk you from class the first day as it’s too easy to devise tests & guidelines that defeat a numerical miles challenge.

Get beyond idiosyncratic. Forest, not trees (as the problem).

0700 departure is the start. Or understand that weather is a fact, not a variable. Ignoring YEAR ROUND traffic volume per clock hour, is the thing to address. Done right it kills this spend-to-save thing. So you can’t EOC under some conditions doesn’t matter, as your vehicle use is prescribed. Find the offsets elsewhere. Know the cost. That’s THE ANNUAL.

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Slowmover, I still think you're posting on the wrong forum.


Subscribed for updates, nevertheless.

Departure time has a big influence on my morning commute of 17 km.

At 5:55am it takes 18 minutes and 4.5 l/100 km. At 8 am it takes 6.5 l/100km and an 1 hour.

Thanks, Daox, for this great idea! I, too, get tired of having mostly cold air in the wintertime due to EOC. So, I bought two of these pumps and installed one in each of our cars. I'm very happy to report that it works! No more cold air! :thumbup:

I wired the auxiliary coolant pump into the 12v ignition ON circuit (with a fuse) using a relay that I installed and connected to the fuel pump circuit. When the fuel pump runs, the auxiliary coolant pump turns off; otherwise, when the key is on the auxiliary pump is running. In the summer, I can just disconnect the auxiliary pump from the relay to keep it from running.

The only catch I discovered is that the pump linked above is designed for 3/4" hose, not 5/8"--so I had to use adapters in order to connect it to the 5/8" heater core hose on both cars.

Again, I just wanted to report that this works very well indeed. Thanks again for the excellent idea!

-Funkhoss

That is awesome Funkhoss! Thanks for reporting back. I'm really glad to hear it worked so well. Also, thanks for the heads up on the pump inlet and outlet size.