Robocars, just like any car on California roads
 

There are fifty autonomous/self-driving cars driving around California roads and highways, four have gotten into accidents since September after getting their permits. Three were from Google Lexus SUVs and one from Delphi Audi. They must have an observer/driver behind the steering wheel at all times. They have reported that they were minor fender benders and more importantly, none of their cars were at fault!

News from The Associated Press

Personally, I can't fathom the fascination and investment in this. I don't want it, I wouldn't pay anything for it, I won't even have a car with On Star, much less this. But then, I can't relate to "normals" and what motivates them anyway.

I also don't get this fascination with computer driven cars,
is anyone asking for this ability? I don't think so!

I do understand that reducing accidents is very important.
There are MUCH better ways of making this happen and having computer driven cars is NOT the way.

I would think the most common accident is on the freeway when a car in front of you stops or slows too quickly so you run into them.
This case is not difficult to handle with a computer.
Changing lanes on the freeway is a difficult task I don't think a computer can do this better than a human, the biggest problem in fact is the blind spots, which can be solved by cameras that apparently they think should not be legal.

I personally proposed 10 years ago that freeway driving would be safest if cars where connected together into groups, what I called an EV Train, using magnets like a kids toy train. Now there is no way to crash into the car in front of you, the aerodynamics are MUCH MUCH better, and the locomotive towing the lot of cars is recharging their batteries via regen, and you don't need to drive the car either, so an EV can be used in longer distance driving and arrives fully charged for the local driving.
And the key is this can be done TODAY without any new infrastructure.
Let me correct that, it could have been done 10 years ago.

That's a commendable goal yet injury/death rates currently are at historical lows. As such I don't see the need for radical intervention.

Driverless is radical.

It would greatly reduce traffic. Most traffic issues are caused by human error. For example, not letting someone cut in when they need to exit. If all cars could communicate and work together (unlike humans) traffic jams would be a thing of the past.

I agree the slowdowns/traffic jams are more of a problem than minor accidents themselves, as it effects hundreds of people, some being late to appointments can be rather costly. And idling cars causes pollution.
But there is no way ALL cars will be computer driven, you can't outlaw all older cars, that would never fly in the US, we still allow motorcycles even though they are unsafe and a traffic hazard, and 1961 Corvairs, which are unsafe at any speed. :)

The train idea would operate only in the fast lane, and you can equip your car to be 'train capable' or not, your choice.

Like anything, it would take time to work out the merging of old and new technologies. But there are major benefits to going with computer driver for the majority of people.

Imagine how disappointed passengers would be if they could not slow down to see accidents!

If they ever looked up from their phones, woke up, etc.

Yeah, that's what they all say :-)

I could see a use for them, like when I was doing the 5-6 hour drive once a week. Would have been nice to nap for a couple of hours on the way, instead of either fighting to keep my eyes open, or pull off to the side and try to sleep a bit.

google is officially evil, your privacy belongs to them. Another solution in search of a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Gz6eSatM8

Folks don't understand that they are borrowing the road, that somehow it is a sanitary environment. They are claiming BS figures and if you believe any of it, then you are a chump or a shill.

Follow the money.

Robocars=a hackers dream come true!!!

That would be my biggest concern.

Pros of robot cars
First gen won’t be capable most of these thing but you have to start somewhere.
End of speeding tickets – for everyone
Elderly night time driving – currently seeing this with my parents
End of drunk driving, falling asleep, distracted driving
No more parking hassles – valet everywhere you go
Sleeping on long trips
Women will look more attractive – easier to put makeup on in the car

And you can't think of a single drawback... Amazing, or stupid.

What do you mean "you have to start somewhere"? People fall when they ride bikes, better get on that (and make sure we track their every movement in the process)!!!

Tell me who pays when these things screw up? Will you be arguing with a machine in court if you can't afford one? Will you have to crush your car and not drive? I can't believe there are folks so eager to give up their autonomy.

Just because they CAN drive themselves doesn't mean they have to drive themselves all the time. They're already here. The functionality will continue improving gradually as time goes on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPTIXldrq3Q

I agree, if it's done improperly. If done with open source, open standards that anyone can critique, it could be done very securely. (Like Linux and FreeBSD) And if a security issue did come up, a patch/upgrade could fix it. Unfortunately the auto industry doesn't seem to like open standards.

First let me say - I’m Amazing

Tell me who pays when these things screw up? A. The party at fault pays.

Will you be arguing with a machine in court if you can't afford one? A. Yes, the same way you argue with: red light cameras, police radars, surveillance video and eyewitness testimony.

Will you have to crush your car and not drive? A. No you will not have to crush your car. Weak drivers are allowed to drive on the roads, I don’t see why that would not continue into the future.

The slow boil starts with semi-autonomous
 

Toyota, Audi, Mercedes Benz, GM, Nissan, Volvo and Tesla will have their semi-autonomous driving features (super-cruise, cooperative-adaptive control & navigation, lane tracing, pilot-assist, anti-dozing alarms, chauffeur-assistance, etc) available soon. They are currently testing and driving are all over California roads right now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J63NiYZROPo

And causing accidents, and driving slowly, and you guys are idiots. My only guess is that you own stock, and that is the ONLY reason you think it is amazing. It is a load of crap.

I have been driving for 40 years and been a technician the same time. I have a degree in industrial robotics. I have come to the conclusion that there are benefits to automation and there are limitations. One should never let the machine do your thinking for you. Its job is to handle routine repetitive tasks. Automated systems will always require some level of supervision in the form of an operator and a systems controller. Sensors will give us much more information and it will be processed rapidly. We will still have to deal with unexpected conditions and failures. Measuring the traction in various snow or rain conditions will not be easy. Predicting the path of an animal in the road would be only a statistical best guess. Computer systems are vulnerable to attack and sensors can be negated so in the end there are limits of reliability. Trust but verify.

I guess all the car companies creating the semi-autonomous systems are idiots too. It looks like they work pretty well from the test videos I see and cars that are currently on the road. A lot of drivers are really crappy drivers and systems like these would help a lot. Either that or actually requiring people to learn to drive before they get in a vehicle, but that doesn't seem like it will happen.

The challenge
 

Every manufacturer are creating their own proprietary systems so it is the wild wild west of the 'autonomous auto era'. The incremental creep of active-assistance driving will give way to total autonomous driving. For manufacturers it is NOT a real technology challenge but the 'herding' or standardization of these systems. The main reason are for LEGAL grounds. Congress and lawyers will have a boom. Traffic violations/insurance liabilities from all or any instances of tech failures, accidents and injuries/deaths in these vehicles. These have to be legislatively bullet-proof and fairly adjudicated before any large public acceptance. DOT AND FCC might be involved by requiring self-driving car-to-self-driving car standardized communications for safety and cooperative existence. Add to that traffic mix and complication of the last-hold-out real drivers and our 'off grid' old muscle cars. (they might still make it mandatory to have a smart device or smart phone, to identify our location & disposition in 'the system')

The last hurdle is the psychological jump by drivers/passengers to accept the ride of an autonomous vehicle.

too lazy to walk, too lazy to ride a bike, now too lazy to drive.

NOBODY thought robo-cop red light cameras were a good idea. "whoever is at fault" is the biggest cop-out ever.

As long as they are being promoted, I'll be pointing out how fantastically idiotic it is. I don't care how much google/apple/whatever stock you own, it has ruined your brain and common sense.

Why do you want google to track your every move? What possible rationalle can you fabricate for that? There is none.

You have no clue as to the complexities in driving, so maybe you should be taking those lessons. Or at least one in programming, so you know how utterly rediculous all these claims are.

You might as well put on the goggles or plug back into the matrix now, without pushing all this crap. Your lineage is done.

Bullcrap safety claims, from bullcrap companies. You better believe "acceptable losses" has been discussed, and this whole thing has been swiftboated by corrupt/naive politicians.

YAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!!! omfg.

Quick, get a tinfoil hat. John Lear Official ATS Tin Foil Hat not Signed Original | eBay

you can't mod it, you can't drive it without assuming liability. Craptons of unfounded claims. This isn't ecomodding related in the slightest, but could fit nicely in the unicorn corral.

Yah, tinfoil hats, that's really addresses the issues... You are down with automated private police state.

The day that report came out, Google disclosed that it is actually 11 accidents and the AP story has been updated...

Jalopnik had a story on it:
Google Needs To Come Clean About Its Self-Driving Car Crashes

Driver assist features do exist, unlike unicorns. There are self parking cars. There are cars with lane keeping assist. The assist features don't affect the ability to eco-mod the car in any way. Eventually having all traffic flow better because erratic people aren't controlling their cars will definitely affect the MPG's. Also features like cars being able to join up in a "train" configuration will definitely improve mpg.

11 crashes in 1.7 million miles of driving, and all the reported accidents were the fault of other dumbass drivers... rear ending, running a stop sign, etc. They should be more clear to point out how ****ty people really drive and how well the autonomous cars from google have handled that.

show me the independantly verified data, not the marketing hype.

How did they determine fault? If it is typical corpslease it only means they were not convicted. See also "who's fault is it". If it was driving irratically...

The records were concealed, with as much gusto as the road tests were approved.

Do you even know how to think critically? Or do you think google is going to do anything but blame you with all the data they collect (that you can't get to) if you touch the wheel or not.

Why would anyone want to give them money?

You seem to think google has a monopoly on this market. All car manufacturers are working one these types of systems/cars. Google was just the first to do it on such a large scale.
Let the Robot Drive: The Autonomous Car of the Future Is Here | WIRED

In two recent incidences; gas pedals getting stuck and faulty ignition switches.
Both represent two extremes of self driving cars, going too fast and safety equipment not functioning. These are not new concerns.
You can't solve a case before it happens.

Anyone who is impaired anytime during their life could benefit from self driving cars, elderly, drunk, disabled, blind, sleep deprived. If you're not on this list you're not livin'.

Well, it went from 4 crashes to 11 in one day. Next week, we could be up to 50. :P

11 known accidents over 1.7 million miles is about 1 every 150k miles. I would say that is not far from the average human driver.

According to:
Here's how many car accidents you'll have
The average driver gets in an accident once every 17.9 years. Average US driver drives 13,500 miles per year. So, one reportable accident every 240k miles. Google's robocars don't look so good to me...

Another interesting point from the article linked above... of 30,797 fatal accidents, less than 1000 involved a cell phone (which doesn't necessarily mean it was the cause), or about 3% of all fatal accidents. Looks like we may be exaggerating that concern a bit...

if it drives like a herkey jerkey robot, it is gonna be causing accidents.

Who get the driving like crap ticket?

How is this anything ecomodder?

You can't mod it, you can't drive it. It isn't even a car.

"if it drives like a herkey jerkey robot, it is gonna be causing accidents."
Perhaps. People driving like assholes cause accidents all the time.

"Who get the driving like crap ticket?"
The person who isn't paying attention and rear ends the car in front of them, just like any other vehicular accident.

"How is this anything ecomodder?"
It's a vehicle with aerodynamics. Right up our alley.

"You can't mod it, you can't drive it. It isn't even a car."
Semiautonomous/autonomous vehicles are being made by a wide range of manufacturers. You can drive them, you can mod them, and they are absolutely cars like any other, but improved.

We already have tons of computer assisted features in production cars. ABS, etc. People protested those at first too. Now it gives you discounted insurance rates because it's been proven.

I think the computer controlled parallel parking was a huge hit, every car has it now, it has saved millions of lives, a true advance in vehicle technology.

:rolleyes:

Mostly what I don't like is the hype about self-driving cars, like we all are just waiting holding our breath to get a car that will drive itself, and hurray! it is coming tomorrow, or next week, or wait, next year, I mean in 2017, or was that 2025, because Google or Mercedes or Nissan are just SO FREEKIN SMART.
But they still don't sell a car that gets 100 mpg, or still needs freeking wanky windshield wipers that obstruct your view, which btw, what does a self driving car do in the rain or fog?
Yeah, they are so freekin smart.

The fur flew when air bags were introduced. There are improvements and there gimmicks. They get sorted out fairly quickly.

"The reason it is so hard to make something foolproof is because fools are so ingenious." The guy at the NTSB loved that one.

This is a huge part of my objections. folks here swap in a manual trans and hypermile to 100mpg. The more you automate the suckier your personal efforts will be.

You can't do crap with a robot transporter, except get blamed for not holding the wheel when you should have, or holding the wheel when you shouldn't have.

The insurance companies will adjust in any event and keep making their money, guaranteed.
doesn't look like it is actually changing overall since 2013, but wow, what a shell game. (and data is hard to come by)
CarInsurance.com Premium Index - Average Car Insurance Premiums

edit: "Aerodynamic", lol
http://static1.businessinsider.com/i...me-upfront.jpg

Looks like I overestimated a bit. Google's cars have only driven 1 million miles autonomously.
Google acknowledges 11 accidents with its self-driving cars

The other 700k were manually driven.

You realize your comments here are public and permanently recorded in history, right?

Automated driving is guaranteed to happen, and it will improve the following things:

Reduce number of accidents
Reduce severity of accidents
Increase fuel economy
Reduce traffic congestion
Reduce travel time
Increase mobility for elderly/impaired
Increase safety and mobility for those under the influence of drugs
Reduce vehicle cost
Increase productivity and leisure time

Drawbacks:

More difficult to express road rage
More difficult to express personal (disruptive) driving style
Can't blame traffic for being late to work
Less fun, if you consider a routine grid-locked commute to be loads of fun compared to watching your favorite TV program
Auto insurance industry shrinks in size - loss of jobs
Auto repair industry shrinks in size - loss of jobs
Big oil shrinks in size - loss of jobs/terrorists
Parking garages and meters eliminated - loss of revenue
Confusion when someone yells "shotgun" when determining where people will sit
Can't yell "crazy maniac" to those driving faster than you, and "inconsiderate idiot" to those driving slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWPCE2tTLZQ

"Give me absolute safety, or give me death!"

I always thought you were being sarcastic about that, guess I was wrong.

My quote is political satire modeled after the original "Give me liberty, or give me death" by Patrick Henry.

Our society is too quick to trade away liberty for the illusion of safety. Health insurance is seen as an inalienable right, and not being able to board a plane with fingernail clippers or more than 3oz of fluid feels like we have more safety.

I'm all for liberty, but one persons liberty ends where it begins to affect other people in a negative way. In the future, you won't have the freedom to manually operate your vehicle in an infrastructure designed for autonomous travel. It would put others in danger and disrupt the orderly flow of traffic.

However, you will still have the freedom to race your old-school petroleum burner on a race track at whatever speed your vehicle and your nerves can muster.

Public roads are not the place to exercise free will; hence all the laws about maximum speeds and rights of way. All laws are an attempt to standardize the infinitely diverse desires of people into an orderly system; one that maximizes the utility and well-being for all. Nothing accomplishes the goal of order better than a machine. A machine dispassionately and unwaveringly follows the rules it has been given. It's performance depends solely on design and isn't subject to emotional state, tiredness, attention, or miscalculation.

Commercial aircraft are mostly operated in auto mode. Just seconds after lift-off, the autopilot is engaged. A heading is entered into the system and the plane automatically banks and steers in the desired direction, doing so with a level of efficiency and comfort that is not achievable by human operation. Even the glide slope on decent is often done automatically, with the pilot taking over just before touchdown.

Automation of complex systems (traffic), or routine operations (commute to work) is desirable.