Sandy Munro compares Model S built quality to a 90s Kia
 

I think we have discussed Munro before, he tears down everything from small appliances to airplanes to tell competitors how stuff works. https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-t...ual-1822678045

People in the comments said to cut them slack, they have been building cars for as long as Kia had in the 90s. If I am getting a mortgage for a car, I want perfection! I remember sharing an article about how difficult it was to open the trunk on a Prius when the battery died. Someone said they fixed that in later models. A comment on the Jalopnik page:

There were complaints like those about the Tesla. Don't run out of gas, military-grade jet fuel, or electricity, but if you do, there should be a better alternative than selling your car for parts.

I'd call those design flaws (AKA bugs), rather than build quality issues. Same as my 1st-gen Insight, which doesn't run if the 12-volt battery is (nearly) dead, even though the traction battery is fully charged.

The traction battery needs a controller to be useful and that controller is powered by the 12V system.
I don't mind jumping an EV to get it working again. The charge port is useless if there is no 12V as the battery brain is needed to be able to charge anyway.

The fools that dragged a BMW I3, wheels locked and all, onto a tow truck and toward a BWM dealership only to have the dealer jump it and drive it off by its own force should have RTFM tattooed somewhere though.

Last I checked, no normal cars start with a dead 12V battery... Is this a design flaw too?

That is what you deserve for purchasing a car with an automatic.

It's like comparing apples with oranges. Kia was still doing nothing more than copying Mazda designs, plus it targeted to a cheaper end on the global markets, while Tesla has always been after a more affluent one.


At least the ones with a manual transmission can be push-started :D

Strange, because I've started a number of normal cars with an (almost - not enough juice to turn the starter) dead battery. You just give it a good push (or hope you're pointed downhill), hop in, pop the clutch, and go.

Indeed, I probably started my old Austin-Healey that way almost as often as I used the started. Lucas electrics, you know?

And yes, it is a design flaw because it would be simple to make the DC/DC converter provide current from the traction pack.

It's not quite that simple because the traction battery must be disconnected when not used for safety. This means the 12v battery is necessary to actuate the contactor that connects the traction battery to the rest of the vehicle circuitry.

My thought was a momentary switch that can be manually operated that closes the contactors. Hold the switch long enough to charge the 12v battery, a minute or 2, and then the 12v battery can take over holding the contactor closed.

The power required to "start" an EV is very low compared to an ICE. A very small 12v source is all that is needed to provide just enough to run the computer and close the contactor, then the traction battery takes over.

Small, super-powerful, 12Vdc Li-ion battery inside a simple, old-fashioned, IGNITION KEY; just plug it IN to "start" the 12Vdc electronics.

A 19th century telephone with swing-to-ring generator :)

Ecomodders invented the MPGuino and the cool kids are installing them into their cars. T_vago has this interesting project: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ead-26469.html. Daox makes shifter knobs that go "Pew pew" and "Vroombwahaha." We have fan indicator lights. People have put engines into cars despite absolutely not belonging and other nightmares of wiring, but nobody has figured out how to make it easy to recover a dead electric car?

Jump start, just like any other car.

I'd carry something like this, as it could come in handy for charging a phone or used as a flashlight:

http://telwin.it/export/sites/defaul...1468683548.jpg

My old MT diesel would bump start and continue running with a bad battery and failed alternator

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PI46qVW2WA4/hqdefault.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PI46qVW2WA4/hqdefault.jpg

Why would anyone drive anything they can't start with the leather belt they are probably already wearing? :) I know, glow plug, right?

The Hyundai Ioniq is the first, and sole, production car to use a partition of the traction battery to provide 12V power without a separate 12V lead-acid battery. Perhaps others will follow suit.

It took me an hour to get a hold of the right mechanics, but one of those jump-started my bus with one of those small lithium jump-starters. I was amazed something so small brought something so large to life.

My Lieutenant still tried to get me in trouble for that I am pretty sure I did not understand why at the time.

I have also been intrigued by the ones that plug into your 12v port, but that is another thing I need to fix on my Civic... :)

There are many other tricks to enable cold-start in a Diesel with failed glowplugs, from ether to placing a few pieces of charcoal right over the cylinder head. Though I wouldn't feel comfortable to try some of those approaches in a modern Diesel...

I haven't tried the cigarette port type yet, but I doubt they are much use. Most cars require the key be turned to the ACC position, which activates some accessories which draw power. On top of that, the port is 10A limited, which means you cannot charge the battery at a rate faster than about 100 watts, which is low.

There just isn't any point. Who is so lazy they refuse to pop the hood to connect a jump pack? Maybe if I was wheelchair-bound it would make sense, but normally-abled people have no reason to be lazy.

The Telwin Mini has maximum starting amperage of 1,000: http://www.telwin.com/en/prodotti/?i...&idPrec=829392

Ten amps seems... less...

Do you have to ruin everything?! :D

Oh, I thought you were talking about the ones that "jump" the car through the cigarette socket, not the ones that can be charged up from the cigarette socket.

Here's what I thought you were talking about:

http://www.techgalerie.com/images/2006/2006_320.jpg

https://www.vat19.com/item/auto-jump...without-cables

Cigarette sockets are usually protected by a 10a fuse, so they can charge a jump pack slowly, but aren't very practical for going the other direction to jump the main vehicle battery.

To fix your cigarette socket, check the fuse first. If that's good, check the wires at the back of the socket. They sometimes come loose.

https://img.banggood.com/thumb/water...1321%20(3).jpg

Somehow I was clearer the first time than the second. Yes, I referred to 12v car jumpers initially, but when you said they were limited to 10A I looked up the device in question, and shared its statistics.

So, it would work, it would only take a hundred times as long. My family had a thirty-minute conference call during my lunch break, which I can summarize in two sentences. If I can give enough information in eighteen seconds, is that 100 times as good as taking half an hour?

I haven't even seen anybody using (or even claiming to use) the cigarette lighter as a power inlet for jump-start, only as a power outlet.

The thing muddying your example is the link was to a device that doesn't have a cigarette lighter adapter. It only has alligator clips to attach to the existing car battery.

The description was inaccurate too:

Amp hour is a measure of total electric flow. They meant to say 1000 A, which is a rate of electric flow. It's like the difference between measuring the rate of water flowing out of a faucet, and measuring the total volume of water collected in a bucket. If that battery had a 1000 Ah capacity, it would be far more energy dense than any other battery.

Guys! We have been working too hard! Just use this!

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1518113980
https://www.amazon.com/Eurow-Quick-J...70_&dpSrc=srch

The thing is, it looks terrible, but are those cables actually enough? I would want to review it, but not without free shipping. This one looks better, cheaper, and is Prime, but only has a four-foot cord: https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SA.../dp/B000H92L4W

I would purchase this if it was longer than four feet. What would I do with it? I do not have any idea! https://www.amazon.com/Cigarette-Lig.../dp/B01MYRV6PE

There is some convenience to not popping the hood, but needing ten minutes to adequately charge a weak battery? What about a completely dead one?

Four feet huh.
One end goes into the cigarette lighter socket, but the other end?

https://www.duracell.nl/app/themes/d...ny-history.png

Speaking of jumper packs, this just appeared for $35 on Slickdeals:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UZC6UH73&psc=1

Use code AUKEYBC1 to get it for $35

12 Ah and 400 CCA
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Arguments are getting pretty rowdy on SlickDeals.

All sold out! Buy 3 and get a decent ebike battery for $100...