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Old 02-05-2018, 11:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Sandy Munro compares Model S built quality to a 90s Kia

I think we have discussed Munro before, he tears down everything from small appliances to airplanes to tell competitors how stuff works. https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-t...ual-1822678045

People in the comments said to cut them slack, they have been building cars for as long as Kia had in the 90s. If I am getting a mortgage for a car, I want perfection! I remember sharing an article about how difficult it was to open the trunk on a Prius when the battery died. Someone said they fixed that in later models. A comment on the Jalopnik page:

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I do remember being in a parking lot that had an EV charging station, and some dude with a Leaf came up and asked me to give him a jump because his battery had died, so he couldn’t get the battery charger door open to plug the car in. That struck me as an appallingly stupid design.
There were complaints like those about the Tesla. Don't run out of gas, military-grade jet fuel, or electricity, but if you do, there should be a better alternative than selling your car for parts.

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Old 02-05-2018, 02:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd call those design flaws (AKA bugs), rather than build quality issues. Same as my 1st-gen Insight, which doesn't run if the 12-volt battery is (nearly) dead, even though the traction battery is fully charged.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The traction battery needs a controller to be useful and that controller is powered by the 12V system.
I don't mind jumping an EV to get it working again. The charge port is useless if there is no 12V as the battery brain is needed to be able to charge anyway.

The fools that dragged a BMW I3, wheels locked and all, onto a tow truck and toward a BWM dealership only to have the dealer jump it and drive it off by its own force should have RTFM tattooed somewhere though.
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Last I checked, no normal cars start with a dead 12V battery... Is this a design flaw too?
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
People in the comments said to cut them slack, they have been building cars for as long as Kia had in the 90s. If I am getting a mortgage for a car, I want perfection!
It's like comparing apples with oranges. Kia was still doing nothing more than copying Mazda designs, plus it targeted to a cheaper end on the global markets, while Tesla has always been after a more affluent one.


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Last I checked, no normal cars start with a dead 12V battery...
At least the ones with a manual transmission can be push-started
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Last I checked, no normal cars start with a dead 12V battery... Is this a design flaw too?
Strange, because I've started a number of normal cars with an (almost - not enough juice to turn the starter) dead battery. You just give it a good push (or hope you're pointed downhill), hop in, pop the clutch, and go.

Indeed, I probably started my old Austin-Healey that way almost as often as I used the started. Lucas electrics, you know?

And yes, it is a design flaw because it would be simple to make the DC/DC converter provide current from the traction pack.
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
And yes, it is a design flaw because it would be simple to make the DC/DC converter provide current from the traction pack.
It's not quite that simple because the traction battery must be disconnected when not used for safety. This means the 12v battery is necessary to actuate the contactor that connects the traction battery to the rest of the vehicle circuitry.

My thought was a momentary switch that can be manually operated that closes the contactors. Hold the switch long enough to charge the 12v battery, a minute or 2, and then the 12v battery can take over holding the contactor closed.

The power required to "start" an EV is very low compared to an ICE. A very small 12v source is all that is needed to provide just enough to run the computer and close the contactor, then the traction battery takes over.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Small, super-powerful, 12Vdc Li-ion battery inside a simple, old-fashioned, IGNITION KEY; just plug it IN to "start" the 12Vdc electronics.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Small, super-powerful, 12Vdc Li-ion battery inside a simple, old-fashioned, IGNITION KEY; just plug it IN to "start" the 12Vdc electronics.
A 19th century telephone with swing-to-ring generator

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