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-   -   Saturn S-Series 5th Gear Swap (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/saturn-s-series-5th-gear-swap-2779.html)

cfg83 06-04-2008 03:22 AM

Saturn S-Series 5th Gear Swap
 
Hello -

I am copy-catting Multiades' great post :

Taller top gear makes a real difference
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ence-2748.html


I did my 5th gear swap back in September 2007. It was based on this saturnfans.com thread :

MAD!! gear swap - 04-27-2006
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76116

My mechanic didn't want to do it at first because he normally farms out transmission work, but thanks to all the information I got at saturnfans, I described the process to him and he was able to do it, no problemo. He did have to pop the cover again to make an adjustment, but I just drove home and was super happy with it. Here are some pix :


Transmission Cover :
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8437/01coverwo7.jpg
As other (saturnfans) have said, you don't have to remove the transmission to do the mod. The 5th gear is under the transmission cover seen above.


OLD MP3 5th gear in place :
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4...5thgearco1.jpg
This is my original "performance" 5th gear in place after my mechanic took off the cover.


NEW MP2 5th gear being installed :
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8...5thgearop3.jpg
Here is the MP2 5th gear during installation. Fits like a bug in a rug.


Gear Ratios for 91-02
http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...gearratio.html
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6...rratioscc4.jpg
It turns out that the 1998-2002 years had the best economy 5th gears for the MP2 transmission.


Some number crunching -

MP3 5th gears : 37*27 teeth => 27/37 = 0.7297 => 0.730 = The MP3 5th gear ratio seen above.

MP2 5th gears : 43*26 teeth => 26/43 = 0.6046 => 0.605 = The MP2 5th gear ratio seen above.

Dividing ratios : 0.730 / 0.605 = 1.2066 => ~21% reduction in RPMs => 21% gain in MPG (maximum).

When I first drove home at close to steady-state 50 MPH, on a stretch of freeway that I recalled seeing ~40 MPG, I was seeing about ~50 MPG on my ScanGauge, so this fit the 20% increase I was predicting.

But, this 20% is an ideal gain because I am pushing the engine away from it's optimum power band (BSFC). That's the way I think of it, anyway.

There is an associated power loss, but it runs fine at 35 MPH on the flat in the new 5th gear. I have to be lighter on the throttle, but I'm already Hypermiler-Granny trained in that respect anyway, so no biggee. With the old gear, on the flat, I would say that the absolute bottom of the gear would have been about 20 MPH. Today, I think that is now closer to 25 MPH.

Right close to home, I always spend time "lugging it" uphill for about the last 3/4 mile. With my old 5th gear, I could just hold my own at 30 MPH going up the hill. Now I feel the loss in power so I need to use 4th. But, since that is such a small component of my commute, I don't really care.

As other (saturnfans) have said, I did lose my cruise control. The ECU/PCM is none too pleased at this state of affairs, but I don't need it.

Benefits : I am getting better MPG on city streets because I can just "cruise in 5th" and be driving close to idle RPM most of the time. It's *easier* to get better MPG.

Detractions: I used to P&G a lot because my sporty 5th gear could do a really quick pulse followed by a long glide. Now, with the economy 5th gear, the pulse takes longer. I think it is also less efficient because I have moved away from the BSFC sweet spot (right!?!?!?!). I think that because of this, the economy 5th gear (for me) is a wash on the freeway. I still get great MPG on the freeway and I still P&G, but I don't have to work as hard. If I was not already using the P&G technique, the MPG gain would have been closer to the ideal 20%.

CarloSW2

MetroMPG 06-05-2008 12:17 AM

Good post. I'm going to twin yours and the other one and link to them from the home page.

JohnnyGrey 06-05-2008 12:57 AM

Wow great mod! Are those straight-cut gears? I wish mine was so easy, but it will almost certainly involve pulling the trans :(

cfg83 06-05-2008 01:52 AM

JohnnyGrey -

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyGrey (Post 31538)
Wow great mod! Are those straight-cut gears? I wish mine was so easy, but it will almost certainly involve pulling the trans :(

I think of it as a Saturn S-Series "exploit". You get this economy 5th gear "for free" if you have an S?1 S-Series Saturn with manual tranny. I bought my SW2 used after it was out of production, so I didn't have a choice on the gearing. The S?1 and S?2 manual trannies are physically identical except for the gearing ratios and how the ECU/PCM manages the cruise control.

The other virtue of the Saturn S-Series manual tranny is that the 5th gear is accessible without dropping the rest of the transmission. That's what makes it so fun.

PS - Just to be obvious, you need both of the MP2 5th gears (the 43 teeth gear and the 26 teeth gear) in order to mesh properly.

CarloSW2

Arminius 06-05-2008 02:22 AM

Perhaps you mentioned it, but how much did the gears cost?

cfg83 06-05-2008 03:01 AM

Arminius -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius (Post 31572)
Perhaps you mentioned it, but how much did the gears cost?

I bought them from the Saturn Dealer, so I paid retail (a LOT). I think it was something like $80 and $60 for each gear, respectively.

I did see this gear set on ebay for $80 for both gears. I think the most economical way to get these is to go to a junkyard, find an S?1 with a manual tranny, and remove the 5th gear yourself. I posted my mod in saturnfans.com and someone named Nagyfasz copied me by going to the junkyard :

MP2 5th Gear Swap into MP3 Online ...
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=105555

CarloSW2

ebacherville 06-05-2008 12:24 PM

nice i heard my honda 5th gear swapp is the same on the 3rd gen hondas..

ZachUA 06-05-2008 12:53 PM

Are there any people doing 5th gear swaps on civics?

cfg83 06-05-2008 01:35 PM

ZachUA -

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachUA (Post 31724)
Are there any people doing 5th gear swaps on civics?

Not being a Civic dude, I wouldn't know. Here's a question. is the Honda tranny 5th gear accessible without dropping it?

CarloSW2

tjts1 06-05-2008 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 31754)
Here's a question. is the Honda tranny 5th gear accessible without dropping it?

CarloSW2

Nope


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