Solving the blind spot problem
 

Hi,

I've been unhappy with the blind spots and never really felt the OEM mirrors were doing a through job. But in another thread at PriusChat, some folks suggested after-market, convex mirrors. I picked up a pair of 2"x1" convex mirrors, $2/each, at the local Autozone and started this experiment:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_mirror_010.jpg
This is the rear view mirror of our 2003, NHW11 Prius.

Driving home, it worked perfectly and in a few minutes, I'll try some night driving. Barring some problem at night, this is working well. I'm now seeing cars in the blind spots, just behind the rear passenger doors, on both sides of the car. Not visible because the cell phone is closer than my normal eye position, the two convex mirrors overlap in the center. Also, these mirrors fit in the same area that the rear passenger head rests normally block the rear view.

For less than $5, I finally feel comfortable that the blind spots are covered. I'm seeing vehicles that otherwise are not seen in the OEM mirrors. FYI, these particular, convex mirrors are "Pilot" MI-003 bought at Autozone. I have no financial interest in Pilot or Autozone.

Bob Wilson

Get the inside and drivers side mirrors from a European (mainland) market car. These cars have convex mirrors from the factory with no blind spots.

bwilson4web -

This is my current state of overkill :

In practice I almost never use the interior side-view mirrors, but they are there if I need them and allow me to argue that I am in "gross compliance" with the law, so to speak. I do use the teeny bike mirror, but it is not very helpful at night.

CarloSW2

It's possible to adjust your outside mirrors to eliminate blind spots to the sides of the car. You set your outside mirrors to having a very minimal overlap with the rearview. The passing vehicles go rearview mirror -> outside mirror -> peripheral vision when you're looking straight ahead.

Don't know if that's possible on a Prius. Works well on my car.

CarloSW2, I was considering a mirror like yours, but do you find the 17" rearview mirror obstructs useful portions of the windshield?

RobertSmalls -

That's a good question. I haven't really noticed it. The real problem with it is that when a passenger uses the window visor, they frequently knock the rear view mirror out of position. I don't do that because I am *aware* of it's size. Sooooo, in that sense, bwilson4web's solution is a better "fit" with existing visors.

CarloSW2

Doesn't anyone check over their shoulder anymore?

Hell, I don't even use the mirrors on Cara most of the time, because I'm not entirely concerned with what's behind me unless I'm slowing down, and I'm not entirely concerned with what's beside me unless I'm changing lanes... And even then, I check over my shoulder unless physically unable, like in box trucks and large vehicles which aren't equipped for passenger travel.

My OE mirrors are set so that there is no overlap and no blind spot, as well.

Method for setting mirrors:

Get into driving position
Lean your head to the left as far as you can while keeping your head in the straight up and down position, so that an imaginary line down the bridge of your nose would remain vertical.
Adjust left mirror so that the sheet metal of the vehicle is just visible, then move the mirror until the vehicle is just out of sight in this head position.

Lean head to the right, using the same method, adjust right mirror (have someone else adjust it if it's a manual mirror and you can't adjust it from your driving position).

Adjust rearview mirror so that you can see equal parts of the rear interior on all sides of the mirror.

If you use this method correctly, you should have no (or minimal) blind spots, and you won't need to move your head to use your mirrors properly. You just don't need to look at the corner of your car while you're driving, although many people apparently assume that their ass-end is going somewhere the front hasn't already been.

What I find with this method is the nose of most cars just show up as the rear disappears. The body of standard cars on either side are not simultaneously visible and motorcyclists still disappear. The visual clue is the doors of the overtaking or being overtaken car disappear.

The convex mirrors provide 'the whole car' and work great with motorcyclists and Smart cars. This morning on the way into work, there was a Mini Cooper that was completely masked by the "Method for setting mirrors" but it was clearly visible in the convex mirror. I'll post photos from my cell phone this evening. One other aspect is the convex mirrors also show parts of my car, the door posts, which gives context or sense of exact location that the "Method for setting mirrors" does not provide. Those mirrors just point out into space with no reference relative to your own vehicle. Regardless, this story led to this most recent effort:

I Crashed into a Scary Biker Dude | momlogic.com
A former motorcycle and bicycle commuter, I knew I was invisible. The convex mirrors have shown my 'lying eyes' why that is the case.

Bob Wilson

Hm. I haven't had a problem with losing cars as they pass (I'm not usually the one doing the passing...) and I can see motorcycles on the highway that ride in the right-most section of the left lane while they're on my corners. I've used that method on every car I've driven, and I've noticed that only on those with extremely long rear-ends (box trucks and flat beds) that there are still blind spots, but on the average <20 foot length commuter vehicle (misnomer, I know), there are none.

I read about this in a Cartalk article. Makes sense. I set mine that way.

However I still end up turning my head most of the time. Because depending on the weather I might have 1 shirt on or 4 shirts on, or boots or not, changes the position I am in relation to the mirrors. And the only way to really set them properly is to be on a straight level piece of highway, which I don't get unless I am going downstate.

You're supposed to check/adjust your mirrors each time you get into your car, before starting it.

Also, it doesn't really matter where you are when you set your mirrors, since you always set them using your vehicle as a spatial reference.

So this morning on the way to work, I looked out my driver side window and saw this:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_mirror_040.jpg

So then I looked at my rear view mirror:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_mirror_020.jpg

That little red car:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_mirror_030.jpg

The Mini Cooper was located behind my door post, along side the passenger door. My driver side mirror is adjusted so if my head is against the glass, I can just see the side of my car.

Bob Wilson

Obviously, your car is different than EVERY other car I've ever driven.

So, you couldn't have leaned your head slightly to the left to see that Mini in your mirror?

(By the way, your left mirror is adjusted up too far, if I'm to believe the image you've posted. I'm not sure why you'd want to look at the sky while you're driving, but a few inches off the road is more likely to give you a better view of what you actually need to see... Unless you're afraid an airplane might be tail-gating you? :) )

Well I'm glad to have saved you from ever driving a Prius.

I just checked my owner's manual and it doesn't have any instructions about "leaning head." But what really surprised me is the mini wasn't visible out my window. I had to look behind the door post to see it, which the convex mirror revealed with a quick glance.

You'll notice that the widest part of the outside mirror corresponds to the horizon line. It was adjusted so the widest angle of view would be equal to the hood and body as shown by the pickup truck that was behind the mini cooper.

Bob Wilson

Car Talk | How to Avoid the Blind Spot

http://www.cartalk.com/content/featu...alkMirrors.pdf

Yes that is true, adjusting the mirrors before you go. I do that if they are out of whack. But doing this you can only roughly set them so you can see the back corner of the car. Anything else, like setting them further out to tune out the blind spots, requires you to be out on the road.

Actually, it is. The rear curves away at a good aerodynamic angle, the windows are at unexpected angles, and the rear hatch glass is seperated into two.

Some vehicles have horrid blind spots. I had to drive a former employer's two door Ford Ranger, and I hated it. Despite using the rear view mirror, the wing mirror, and turning my head, a small car could still hide in my driver's side blind spot. If you wanted to execute a safe lane change, you had to put your head against the driver's window and look.

Are you like 6'2"? I'm 5'7" and tend to sit close enough to the steering wheel that I can comfortably hold my arms at approximately a 135* angle at the elbow while holding the wheel at 10 and 2 with both hands. This places the wheel approx 2 feet from my chest.

In my FIL's Ranger (I believe it's a '91) I can still adjust the mirrors to account for blind spots, and even though I do so, I check over my shoulder without having to bang my head against the window.

In the mirror, I can see the area at the rear half of the spot that would normally be blind, and I can see directly next to the truck, about 1/2 way back the bed by looking over my shoulder out the window. Granted, it's also an extended cab version.

Hi,

I do not have any blind spots with my video mirrors. If there is a large truck behind me, I see it in all three mirrors. And if the rear of a car next to me is even with my shoulder -- I still see it in the video mirror on that side.

I just use the little (2"?) round convex stick on mirrors on my sideview mirrors, and nothing can hide from those. This allows me to aim the side mirrors further back. I have overlap between the mirrors. A vehicle can be visible in the rearview and sideview at the same time, and will appear in my peripheral vision before it is out of view of the convex mirror. I use them on every vehicle I own, and never have to turn my head to change lanes.

Many people ignore the instructions and install them incorrectly. They belong on the lower outside edge of the sideview mirrors.

Here in the US cars come with convex passenger side exterior mirrors, and flat driver's side mirrors. I drove British cars in GB for a good while before I noticed they have convex mirrors both sides, and I thought they worked great that way. Why don't we do that here? The FMVSS says flat mirror driver's side, the Automotive X Prize says flat mirror driver's side, what's the logic there?

It's a matter of depth perception, as I understand it. NHTSA feels that people will need to focus more on a convex image than they would on a flat image to determine depth of image and proximity of approaching objects, and thus, require a flat mirror on the driver's side.

Keep in mind, these rules only apply to OEMs, and if your state doesn't have laws specifically governing the type of mirror in use, you can change them to suit your needs. (Most states don't, that I recall. In fact, PA doesn't require any mirror specifically, other than "one mirror which provides a full, unobstructed view of the rear of the vehicle". In most cases, this is the mirror on the inside of the car's windshield.)