Something BIG! Road Rally / Race / Documentary Film
 

Hi everyone.

A while back, an indie film producer came to see me and a few of my friends with a concept about building an electric car and driving it across country, and making a documentary about the whole thing.

A thread was started on that HERE.

Nothing has come of that. Last time I checked the URL for the concept's web page, it was now available for sale...

But I really like the idea of doing something REALLY BIG!

I don't know exactly what that thing is. I do know that it involves me and you and a bunch of us all working together. Crowd-sourcing, Twittering, keeping things affordable, maybe digging up some sponsors.

In this last year or so, I have met some pretty amazing people. In September, I was at the Mother Earth Fair, and ten minutes into dinner before I realized I was sitting between two X-Prize contenders. This summer, I met a twenty-something year old "kid" who just happened to start working for Tesla Motors because of building his own kick-butt EV motorcycle from scratch. I even know a NorthWestern young inventor who went from building his own electric car to being a contractor (making big bucks, really big bucks...) to design equipment for one of the largest cereal companies in the country.

We have folks right on this forum building AMAZING open-source equipment.

My only redeeming qualities are that I am not afraid to screw up. I'm good at learning things the hard way. I can test pilot nearly anything, design t-shirts, and I have a video camera.

So here's the thing. WHAT do we want to do?

I'm imagining something like an Eco-Cannonball Run. Some sort of road rally for fuel economy, alternative fuels, creative and inexpensive building. Imagine an X-Prize with no entry fee, but we take our vehicles off the track and out into the real world. And no restrictions. Nobody saying "hey, your trunk isn't big enough" (Please see X-Prize Rant...) If you don't have air conditioning, and roast, that's ok too.

Maybe we could "crowd source" a documentary film out of all this. Get a couple of teams of Ecomodders all going. Take a bunch of cameras. Take a smart phone. Tweet where you are and what you are doing.

Blog, blog, blog!

Get a sponsor or two. (I bet we could get a few Hero cameras donated!)

I don't know exactly where this is all going.

I just know it's going to be big, and I want you to be a part of it.

If you have some great ideas, throw them out there, right here, right now. If you have something REALLY CRAZY or super-secret, just send me a private message.

Super idea.
Now let's see what it can turn into!

Hmmm... NY to San Francisco within x number of days. You have to make it in the specified time to win. Whichever team uses the least gas or diesel fuel used wins. OK to use electric but it doesn't count as "fuel". Need to work out rules requiring x hours down time for driver rest.

Maybe require 4 wheels because 2 + 3 wheelers have far less safety + emissions regulations in the US. It would be an unfair contest if less than 4 wheels.

Would probably need a couple cameras mounted in each car to document that all fuel filling is reported + rules are followed. Or each car would get a follower with a monitor in it?? Probably not.

Reminds me just a bit of the BABE rallys. Big Apple to the Big Easy, car has to cost under $500 (2010 version of rally), points are earned for surmounting challenges, points determine winner. In that rally, the challenge is to make the hunk-a-junk cover the distance!

No race or measurement dimensions, all too hard to "enforce" and the X-Prize already exists. Instead, generate media attention for cheaper and cleaner alternatives to current US fleet through a nationwide "game." All cars converge on Detroit on a given date, and then fan-out on a vast scavenger hunt of sorts, taking pictures of one's car at some site. Sites could be museums, or a factory, or a race track, or other things less topical but just fun. Roll into small cities with local press alerted that this odd squad of modded cars involved in a nation-wide game are on their way. You'll get reporting if your timing is right, and the reporting will raise the issue (usually). In fact, one item on the hunt list could be a pic with a news team. let contestants track and report their MPG in any reasonable way. With the pressure off that factor as the heart of the competition and redirected as the substance of a media message I think you'd avoid the "cheating" on logs.

This is like the "your trunk isn't big enough" comment. Seems a bit premature to start eliminating vehicles no? We might as well say no pickups because they can carry too many batteries and that would not be fair?!?

No, you should allow anything that anyone is willing to build/drive IMHO

In Finland I am starting to make ecodriving practice couses near the routes and places that I usually drive. Some are short routes that people drive everyday and some are long trips I take. People usually record only the fuel consumtion and not so much the route that it is achieved. On shorter routes there will be a driving instruction video how the route should be driven to get lowest fuel consumtion. First route will be 17 km and the target time for that route is 18 minutes. I did it in the video under 17 minutes while driving accordint to speed limits. I did not had to push my brakes at any point of the route to really slow down, I could have saved more fuel by driving even slower but that is not the point of test route. My fuel consumtion for that route was 2.8 l/100km so I beat the EPA overall consumtion. If route proves to standard driver that you can beat the epa figures while still driving according to speed limits it encourages people to start learning more hypermiling techiques. Also if that route is on your regular work route it is easy to test different driving techiniques.

My first video is downloadin to youtube at the moment. My internet connection is slow it takes over 2 days to complete. The route is added to google maps with description of the route.
If you are in a route trip you can search if there is some local routes there where you can test your car and skills and compare your results. Simple and easy how I like things to be. Best routes are the one that are next to big highways that you go still the same way but just can take the test route.

Nummelan kierros taloudellisuusajo harjoittelureitti, Vihti, Suomi - Google Maps

That is my first route and google translation of it.
Taloudellisuusajo training for the planned route Nummela region. The goal is to drive the route through the speed limit on time with minimum fuel consumption. The trail begins at the ABC station in Nummela split when you turn the roundabout CM direction, where the car's fuel consumption would be to reset the meter. The trail ends when you come back to the roundabout. The route is 17 km long and the reference time is 18 minutes.

Of course if you can make even some kind of big event or high quality video its more fun but its difficult to get people there from far distances to same place. If you already have those routes you can use them at some big holiday when people travel long distances with their cars to test the routes. Just lurk at petrol stations where the routes can begin and tell them about the possibility to test tehir driving skills. I would quess that you can but brochure inside the petrol station conserning that driving route...

Those were some of plans that I am doing at the moment on my own...

Something like the "Iron Butt Rally"? They start at and return to one point and cover the whole country, and sometimes Canada, take pictures of themselves and/or motorcycles and/or rally towels that have their rally numbers on, with their rally points in the background( think statue, road sign, boat,...), now. First runs were to the four corners of the US. Current IBRallys are about scheduling and time/sleep management. Some of the places take longer to get to, but are worth more points. It's such a huge endeavor, that they only run it every other year, but a scaled down version could be run yearly.

I would recommend being inclusive and deviding the participants into classes. Make the rules simple and easy to enforce, something that can be mesured at any check point. The iron butt ralley is a good model to start from. have only two or three check points per day. stage winner based on least fuel and closest to the stage time alotment, therefore no advantage to going fast or slow. winners determined by things like
1. least fuel
2. fuel/ton mile
3. fuel/pasanger
4. most punctual/ stage
etc

I can buy into that!

Some good ideas from the old Mobil Economy Run: Mobil Economy Run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That Rambler American in the upper right looks exactly like my first car - a 1961 Rambler American. It got 30 MPG when I first got it. The top speed was 60 MPH because the throttle linkage would not allow full power. When I fixed the linkage, the mileage dropped to 24 MPG.

Exactly where do you want to take this, Ben ?

For practically useless vehicles there's the Shell eco-marathon, and at 3836 kilometer to 1 liter / 9000 mpg US, you'll have a pretty hard time beating them.

If it has to be road-legal for a road-rally, that means restrictions - and they'll depend on country / state where the vehicle is built / registered.

Building a new vehicle here means compliance to Euro 5 ... we ain't getting away with what you guys in the US can do to your vehicles.

Also, it ain't nothing big if it's not even clean enough to pass current emissions testing.
I'd suggest Euro 6 levels (which are already attained by some OEM vehicles) + excellent fuel economy.

Very cool. And quite a bit like what I proposed above too. I would do this, and maybe bring my daughter along. She is getting into the car a little. The scheduling and time/sleep management parts are a bit like what redyaris proposes too. I just think, however, that the more the competition turns on specific measures such as fuel, the more difficult and costly regulating fairness will become. Checkpoints would be at least a little more complex to organize, regulate, and coordinate. So I would opt for an even simpler plan: get the pics in the places and get to the destination when you can but before a specific deadline.

bennelson- I know a couple Indie film guys, if this does go anywhere, I could ask if they would be interested.

GPS tracking could be used to ensure( at least a little anyway) no out of the ordinary( fuel) stops.

Just had a brainwave; participants register ahead of time and purchase a locking gas cap from Rally staff( at cost) that one key will be maintained by Staff and used at designated fuel stops and the other key is given to the participants in a sealed envelope for emergencies. Penalties levied if envelopes' seal is broken. Staffers would run ahead to the fuel stops while participants were stopped. IBR does something similar with drivers licenses to promote legal driving. If a police officer asks for your license( for a speeding ticket) you loose points.

Kind of putting the cart before the horse as a rally format hasn't even been discussed, I know. I don't always think linearly.

I wouldn't mind helping get something going, but, like California98Civic, I'd REALLY like to participate:D.

Locked gas cap might be very workable to support an FE competition. Spare key in sealed envelope as discussed above.

Most of us are in the habit of stretching fillups till (absolutely?) necessary - thus minimizing the FE loss due to stopping. But the prescribed stops would be uniform for all cars, so it would be pretty fair, at least in my humble opinion. I like it.

I'm interested in participating. :D

I think we would want to stay away from locked gas caps, "check-points", etc.

Ideally, we would want this to be lowest barrier to entry as possible.

One of the issues with the X-Prize is that there was a pretty stiff entry fee ($5000?)

Ideally, I would love to have this where people could "self-report". If anyone participating could use a Scan-Guage for tracking fuel use, and a Kill-a-watt for EV charging, and take a photo at each fueling, we wouldn't need an entire team of people looking over everyone else's shoulders.

Unless there was some great-big valuable prize, there's no need for cheating. Instead, participants would want to show off as much as possible. Post photos through the blogs, twitter their current fuel economy, etc. If somebody had a really unbelievable fuel log, anyone else should be able to say "prove it" and see some photos or other data to back it up.

I would love to get a squad of indie film-makers involved. I know from experience that it's really hard to drive a car, film it, and blog about it all at the same time.

If I were doing an eco-road-trip, I would definately want somebody riding shotgun who knew how to use a video camera and a smart phone. (Daox, where are ya?)

I like some of the ideas from the old Mobil fuel economy run. I read a book a while back about all the driving competitions of the early 1900's. They were AMAZING! The guys would have to drain the radiators at night, and refill them in the morning so that the water wouldn't freeze during cold nights. Anti-freeze hadn't been invented yet!

I'd love to re-create some of that old-time excitement of adventure, discovery, and pushing new technology.

Running extension cords out hotel room windows to EVs? Heck ya! I want to see it! Begging for veggie oil from the fast food place? Yes! Yes! Yes! Strange looks from passing drivers!? You Bet!

I do know that putting together any kind of big event is a lot of work. I certainly can't do it all myself. If we get some folks involved who are good with video, good web designers, co-ordinate volunteers, I think we could really have something.

I also wouldn't be against some sort of event with a "flag-ship" vehicle. After talking to some people about the Green Machine Experiment concept, there was mention of having the main vehicle meet up with other folks around the country. Drive with them a ways. Charge up at other 'modded transportation enthusiasts' homes and businesses, etc.

Right now, I really don't have any vehicle that would merit ANY kind of media attention. A Geo Metro really isn't that sexy. Even 144V of used lead acid isn't going to get me through any mountains or deserts.

i did get offers from a few people about lending a hand to build a "sexy" long-range EV. Even for that to happen, I would still need a major donor or sponsor to afford the required batteries.

Hey, my trunk is small. :-(

This is something that I would be interested in. I like the locking gas cap idea. Normal rally races judge by times through legs of the race. However, since we judging based on fuel economy, not speed, we should focus on something other than time. Prearranged gas stations could be set up in 300-500 mile increments (the legs), and each vehicle would be ranked by the fuel consumed during that leg. If you can't make the gas station without breaking into your "emergency envelope," it would be the equivalent of breaking down in an actual rally.

Why not just seal fuel filling door with some security tape - if you need to open it, you broke seal. Much easier/cheaper to use than lockable fuel caps. That could be similar tape that get used around hand in mass-events.

edit...
made quick search and I think something like this.
http://www.leghornseals.com/internat...wristband.html

If it costs a lot people wont like to participate so much. In finland ecorallys cost 40 to 60€ depending on the class. IMO that is way too much to test your driving skills. To drive long distances with least fuel is fun if there are also other cars on the same route. If you drive 1000 miles in a one day on your own its boring.

The less rules you have more cheaper will it be. If you watch how top gear uk or gumball rallyes makes their road trips that is the rigth way to make good entertainment. For that you will need that good cameraman and few cameras. Also cameratruck would be nice.

Gas stations are pretty easy to get "sponsors" in a such event if there will be lots of cars filling their tanks. they can give discounts on food and maybe even fuel, because its a good race. They might even promote the event in the press if their stations are the only ones where you fill...

So, kind of a Eco-Road Trip that is a promotional/awareness event. Honor system on the fuel logs. Easy enough for existing vehicles that can link back to fuel logs on this or other sites to show they were getting nearly their numbers before. People who can't make it for the whole run could join up, meeting at prearranged stages or joining on the road. Car cams in and/or outside for streaming and post production.

Something like this?

I agree, Jethro. In my experience, if you take yourself too seriously, no one will take you seriously at all.

BIG fan of the not-so-serious:D.

So, what are we looking for? Cross country? West-East, East-West, Two starting points meeting in the middle( Junction City, KS is pretty close on I-70 IIRC), Four corners meeting in the middle?

I would be interested in participating in this. Ecomodder road trip?
Could be live streamed to the Internet with something like livestream or justin.tv and would be tweeted often.

Maybe have some different categories.
*Trucks/SUVs
*Econocars
*Hybrids
*Diesels
*Motorcycles
*EVs

Then go by lowest fuel used/C02 produced.
Sponsors could be Linear Logic (the Scan Guage people), Mobil 1 oil, coroplast, Ford, or GM. Have Ford/GM donate a car and have it used in the "rally" driving for best FE. Gets them good press.

How about Promontory, Utah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :thumbup:

Ooooo! Boneville! They'd appreciate the aero.;)

Many of the destinations should be areas where ecomodding is unheard of to raise awareness, here in Southern Minnesota no one knows about this ecomodding. When I tell people about MetroMPG, the AeroCivic, and this website they think I'm exaggerating the MPG figures. I think local media would jump on this event and have a field day, promoting ecomodding and getting more people on the wagon.

Fair enough, but you have to have a climax or sense of adventure, or accomplishment when done, like crossing the country, meeting up with a bunch of others at "X" location where "Y" happened/s. The education would be the side benefit. "We're headed to Bonneville where they use aero for speed and we use it for better mileage." Or "We're traveling across the country, ocean to ocean, without petroleum products as propellant, and there is 50 of us not just a couple people."

Bonneville is a must, amazing idea. I wasn't saying only stop at places that are unfamiliar with ecomodding, just suggesting trying to "spread the word" will raise attention from the media as well.

+1 Bonneville.

I like Bonneville as a meeting point and then have a daily loop of around 200 miles similar to the Vetter Challange where we all travel together then park all the cars in the same spot for public viewing for a couple of hours in the evening. On the way to Boneville from all over the contenent we could log our mpg and vedio... any rule would need to be simple and easily enforceable.

Bonneville Speed Week 2012 is Aug 11-17, Saturday-Friday.

Personally, I've only helped organize local motorcycle charity runs( around 100 miles) that have 4-6 assigned stops, sponsors, donations, promotion, bands and food for the final stop, games for the kids, and volunteers to set up route signs, man the food stations, and getting the donations to the appropriate people. Small things like these takes a couple months to plan. If "Something BIG" is going to take place next summer, Bonneville or not, things need to start rolling ASAP.

Ben...?

I've been thinking about this a bit more.

Here's what I've come up with.


Build an Open Source Plug-In Hybrid.


Fully document it. Open Source it. Drive it, race it. Cross the country in it.

Something with better range than a Plug-In Prius and maybe a Volt as well. And don't use gasoline for the engine component. Diesel. Make it be able to run on bio-diesel or veggie oil.

A person could drive from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific, without ever using a single drop of petroleum. The car could run on solar, wind, and other renewably-sourced electricity. In extra long distances, where there just aren't stops available for electric recharging, the engine could run the car directly.

Likely, it would be a turbo-diesel engine coupled with an AC motor. But by coupled, I don't mean with some sort of super fancy transmission. Design a four-wheel drive vehicle, which has a separate power source for the front and the back. No need for a transfer case or anything like that, just keep them completely separate.

The AC motor would feature regen, which would help with range in start and stop and city situations, but almost more importantly, it works as a generator and brake when going down mountains and big hills.

My electric Geo Metro just uses a series wound motor. I'm not in a real hilly area, and just use the service brake going down larger hills, it's not that big of a deal. In September, I was out at the Mother Earth Fair in Pennsylvania. I got the chance to drive an original RAV-4 Electric. That area was skiing country. I got to test out the regen feature on that SUV. Works great. I was really FAR more interested in it to keep the truck from going way too fast down those big hills than in charging the batteries. For a vehicle to make a cross-country trip, it needs to be able to deal with various terrain, including going UP and DOWN hills and mountains.

So how does one recharge the batteries, while driving, with an engine WITHOUT a fancy planetary gear set connecting them? "Drag Charging"

I know guys have done this out on the salt flats for racing EVs. They would drive a shunt-wound or other regen-capable motor vehicle for their race time. Then, they would drag the car back to the start with a pickup truck, but leave the EV in gear and set to regen. By the time they got back to the start line, the EV would be mostly charged.

A through-the-road hybrid could charge the batteries with the same process. Say you drive the front wheels with a diesel engine, and the back wheels with an AC motor. As you drive the car with the diesel, you would simply turn on the AC motor system and have it start generating. Of course this adds drag to the car, kind of like driving with the parking brake partly on. However, internal combustion engines run more efficiently at closer to wide-open-throttle. Even though you would be getting worse total fuel economy, you would be recharging the batteries. If the car was designed to handle cruising speed on electric only, once the batteries were charged the diesel engine could be shut off. Hey, I think we just re-invented Pulse-and-Glide!

Through microprocessor control (Arduino, etc....) it would be easy to automate, possibly with some sort of override. If you knew you were going to be arriving at your destination in a certain number of miles, you could set it to leave the batteries on a lower state of charge, and just finish the end of the trip on engine power, so that the batteries would get recharged by wall power.

The car could be a conversion of something standard to make licensing and insurance easier, the way typical hotrods and EV conversions are often done. All information on the project would be open source, including a Wiki, plenty of YouTube videos, etc, etc.

I think we have everyone we need right here on Ecomodder to make this happen. The Open Revolt project has lead to an Open Source AC Motor Controller. Several members are building their own chargers.

I know next to nothing about diesel, but plenty of people here do. Most of the X-Prize guys were pretty happy with turbo-diesels, and I think they would be willing to help out with it.

I know the basics of aerodynamics, but plenty of guys here know far more than I.

Oh, and then we make TWO of these things. Two teams could build them, so there would be both a friendly competition AND cooperation between the two. The cross-country trip could then be a "start at both coasts and meet in the middle". Or heck, any time there's two of anything you know they are going to get raced!

Being hybrids, the vehicles could easily show up at events that a typical homebuilt EV never could, just due to range issues.

You could call it the Not1Drop tour - going around the whole country, without gasoline, meeting cool people, shooting video, powering the cars on whatever you have that's local. "Oh, what's that, you know a guy with a wind turbine. Hey, let's go visit him!" Zig Zag across the continent sharing the DIY work ethic, Open Source sharing, and good clean fun.

Find a sponsor if you can, but I think this one is going to the people.

I think this really might be a good idea, as it meets a couple of the criteria I've been thinking about.

1) Something new
As far as I know, there has been very little done with with plug-in hybrids, other than the Prius-hacking, and even the best of those still use gasoline as the main fuel, and typically can't put a charge back into the aftermarket pack.

2) Something good comes of it.
By creating an Open Source Plug-In Hybrid, other people will be able to design their own vehicle which can use a variety of fuels, including renewables, and be either ultra-clean/efficient or long-range, depending on the need.

3) Something I can't do by myself.
I only know the basic theory of diesel engines and AC motors. I sort of get how battery chargers work. I know that microprocessors can be amazing at automating things, but I've never really programmed one. But I think I could figure out those things.... with help.

A lot of help.

I really have no idea what I'm doing. But I'm trying. I'm learning. I managed to build an electric motorcycle, and an electric car (and hybridize it!).
I have drive (Pun intended) to do something.

Maybe you have mad skills programming code, but don't have time to mess around in a driveway or shop to work on a car. Can you solder electronics and ship them to me? You have a new idea for a battery monitor? Can you give me lessons on how size an appropriate diesel engine? How about graphic design? The whole project could really use a look and some awesome decals for the side of the car!

This could be the people's tour. Many hands make light work. Be a part of it.


What do you think? Is it a good concept? Is it doable? What can you add to this project?

Your input desperately needed.

Grand dream, grand idea.

Excellent plan. Building two at different locations would definitely inspire competition:thumbup:.

The car builds are similar to what I'm planning for my Jetta, except I'll be including a rewound alternator running off the engine for the drive battery charging as the engine runs, regen will be manually variable for differing hills, and as I have a gasoline engine, I'll be keeping that for now.

Bennelson,

These sound like great and ambitious ideas. Even if you couldn't find enough people for two teams, one would be enough. I would still recommend the other ideas as well, recruit a larger fleet of EM cars too. I imagine the event as a whole would have larger participation that way. I would love to participate, especially if my daughter rides shot-gun with me!

I would still plan on filming/documentary, racing/rally, and anything else that would make this big!

Biodiesel (B100) is not compatible with current generation diesel particulate filters and methods.
As a new vehicle, it'll have to comply with the current (Euro 5) or oncoming standards (Euro 6) - or their US counterparts.
It ain't worth building if it ain't going to be clean.
And even diesels with DPFs are not clean by the looks of it.

Conversions may be OK in the US, but are a lot harder to get registered in the EU.
Conversions only exist as long as donor cars exist.
Say no to conversions of 1980-1990 cars.
They are simply not comparable to today's emissions and safety standards.


I say natural gas.
Burns clean by its chemical simplicity (the purer you get it, the cleaner it'll burn).
Sure it's still mostly a fossil fuel, but it's easy to make Methane / CH4 / biogas from biological waste stuff.
The basic distribution network exists - at least in Europe.
Many countries that don't have oil, do have gas.

It can still be coupled to a hybrid drive.


It's been done by the Wind Explorer.
Evonik Industries - Specialty chemicals - Wind Explorer
Yup, it's a very minimal car - hardly a car IMO.

It can even use a wing to pull it along.


IMO the basic flaw is the purpose of the vehicle.
The no limitations / no hassling about - say - lack of boot space issue may look nice on paper, but may well result in a pretty useless vehicle.

It's got to have a practical purpose beyond driving coast-2-coast or coast-2-mid continent.

A commuter-car then ?
Fine, but while many have said they'd built the next-gen über-efficient commuter vehicle, few are on the road.
Around here, most people have 1, or 2 cars at worst.
Few people here have an additional fun car, or a dedicated commuter car.

I'd say the practicality of the 1st gen Insight is very much the lower limit.
- 2 seats
- a fair bit of luggage/cargo space - preferably a bit more useful than on the Insight 1.

I spoke too soon. Seems I've acquired a 1.6 diesel to swap into my Jetta. Could be an "also ran" for part of it:thumbup:.

I suspect that your proposal is to much for one year. My personal inclination is to focus on conservation regardless of fuel/energy source. I very much like the Idea of a meet up at Bonneville.
I recall discusions in the 1980's about the energy sources for home heating and the comparative cost of each, and the idea that servived was that as the amount of energy needed droped the cost/unit mattered less and less. In our case as the amont of energy needed by a vehicals to go 60mph on the high and in stop and go trafic is reduced the energy source/cost becomes erelivant. this would also result in the return of EV's as a viable option for more and more people...
So for the first year simply organize the event find and solve those problems then go on, in subcequent year with other bigger ideas.

I agree. I don't think that this should be a one-time, all-or-nothing event. I'm wondering if this could be set up in "cells," so to speak. If a group wants to try to create an EV from scratch, they can. If a group wants to participate in a Cannonball Run type eco rally, they can. And if an intrepid group wants to film this as a documentary to provide national exposure, that would be awesome!

Personally, I'd like to help with/participate in the last two.

Agree, tall order indeed.

Ben, it looks like I'm going to be meeting up with Aerohead( maybe Redyaris, too:thumbup:) next September, on the Salt. The timing could allow for a meet up on the way out or back. Tentatively, I'll be taking the weeks before and after that weekend( Sep. 8-11) for travel. Be a good time to meet up with others share a bottle or two:D. This trip is going to take a lot of my time, but since my build will be heading in the direction you are thinking, it could add on to what you are thinking.

I better start designing something if I'm going to be there!

Sounds like fun!