Sondors 3-seater electric trike for $10,000
 

Thanks to Rmay for bringing this to our attention. This is more than the Elio is claiming for a gasser, but less than the Arcimoto is charging for electric, and is wider than either. I think it looks like a double-wide Elio, with a similar rear. Their site [currently] only shows a grand total of eleven pictures and a link to this video. They really only say they have raised a million dollars through crowdfunding.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1511203866

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1511203981

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1511203927

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1511203910

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1511203866

More information: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...3701_253g2.htm
https://www.startengine.com/sondorsc...ondors_website

I need to get back to work! :D

They state they are on the third phase.

[de-emphasis added]

"We do not currently intend to offer any form of direct financing on our vehicles."

"We are seeking $19,999,998 in funding"

They anticipate producing in April 2019.

While the offering circular states 50, 100, and 200-mile range, the crowdfunding page says "Lithium Ion battery with 75, 150, and 200 mile range."

"Most cars on the road today are over-engineered and have features that no one needs, wants, or uses."

"Many concept cars are created without ever considering how the car is actually going to be made."

"Our three wheel vehicle design also allows us to seek designation as an autocycle."

"Having bypassed investment in a cumbersome manufacturing infrastructure, once engineering and tooling is complete, we believe we will be positioned to begin assembling vehicles as early as April 2019."

"Our choice for the exterior has been inspired by Storm’s lifelong passion for Gran Turismo, but with a modern edge."

"The interior is designed to feel large and open, seating three adult-sized passengers. It’s simple and clean, yet intelligent and innovative. We’ve cut out the unnecessary bulkiness of today’s standard car interior."

Bulkiness?

"[W]e are not currently taking any deposits."

"We have no plans to take any pre-sales until our vehicle is ready for production."

Do any of you guys know Sondors electric bikes?

The price is in line with project trike cost estimates from Richard Q Riley or diesel car kit from John McCornack. The heating and A/C for an electric vehicle draw power. Most everything else is off the shelf or made with minimal capital investment. Don't expect a high volume of vehicles unless demand grows more rapidly than other trike motorcycles.

Yay! A response! :D

I think the Sondors will do slightly better. Having a third seat might have convinced some people to go for the original Insight. Having side-by-side seating should appeal to more people.

I am not sure how many people specifically want their passengers out of sight. I have been known to happily hold hands while I drive. That would be far more difficult in an Arcimoto.

I like it. But I wonder how aerodynamic it is, compared to a tandem 2-seater. That taper on the sides rear look too steep for maximum efficiency, though it should still be better than a 4-wheel design.

I thought the open wheel design of the elio was worse but I have no numbers one way or the other.

Probably not very aerodynamic. I wouldn't want to widen the rear though, because it would greatly increase rollover risk.

This could be an excellent city car though, and one that is appropriate for traveling a couple of exits on the highway.

Sondors has managed to deliver on its promises before.

But if the past is any indication, the specs will change after people invested to:

● Rear wheel drive with wheel hub motor
● Lithium Ion battery 0 to 60 Mph in 12-15 seconds
● Charge with standard 110V
● Three battery range options: 25, 50, and 100 miles
● One color option: Yellow
● Driver and passenger airbags?

A taper angle of 22 degrees in a boat tail is recommended. From "Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles" 5th Ed. pg 312

The price is in-line with self-assembled kit cars, but what about a production vehicle? Can he deliver a wider car with doors, etc. for less than the Arcimoto?

Judging from the bike shipping, the car will have a $2000 shipping charge.

The Sondors looks too much like the Elio to me. Elio got $100.00 out of me for a T-Shirt and bumper sticker. Having the bad taste still in my mouth from Elio, the Sondors is going to need to be in full production before I would ever consider it, and it would need to show me how it is better than any of my Prius (Prii.)

On the one hand, Elio set the bar low, on the other hand, legitimate companies need to overcome their stigma.

Sonders seems to have extra space that I want. I had that German City-el EV when Elio began. That City-el is not sold in the US and it barely had room. This waiting game for a 3-wheel vehicle is too long and too hard on the nerves! I hope Sonders makes it on time.

Niels original thread

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ats-35527.html

More Sondors propaganda

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...ing-for-10000/

Sonders is way too much like the parade of three-wheel vehicle builders wanting money first and foremost. At least 4 tried since 2007. Elioism is catchy!

"Having bypassed investment in a cumbersome manufacturing infrastructure, once engineering and tooling is complete, we believe we will be positioned to begin assembling vehicles as early as April 2019."

Nice double speak there. :rolleyes:

Elio all over again. You cannot build a low-volume car with ABS, airbags, HVAC, and windows (powered or crank) and sell it at a profit for $10,000.

I've read "15 degrees." I'd go for the Elio, but it needs a rear door for us senior citizens.

I've read "15 degrees." I'd go for the Elio, but it needs a rear door for us senior citizens

Was the 5th edition written when the National Speed Limit was 55 MPH? Another 20 MPH should mean a more gradual taper.

One of the best looking 3-seater trikes I've seen though a bit pricey.

Thousands cheaper than any other new enclosed vehicle and it is electric?

I do not see how he could possibly make it happen for that price. As JSH wrote, you cannot sell low production volumes that cheaply for that many features for a profit.

China can sell at that price, I’m still surprised how few Chinese motorbike contraptions end up over here

"...a starting range of 75-100 miles per charge using a 33-kWh battery,"
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...ing-for-10000/

How is this car weighs a theoretical 1800lbs, has a smaller frontal area and a tapered body plan and lower rolling resistance, yet gets less rated range than a Nissan Leaf with a smaller battery is beyond me. The roof profile almost matches a first-gen Honda Insight.

30 kwh 2017 Nissan Leaf: 107 Mi EPA range
69.7" W x 61.0" H
cd 0.28
3386 lbs

In China- yes. In the USA meeting NHTSA and DOT regulations - no

Motorcycles just need dot lighting, meeting that isn’t very hard

This is more than a motorcycle:

Airbags will need to meet US standards
HVAC will need to be filled with US legal refrigerant and meet US standards
The power windows will need automatic reverse
The glass will need to meet US standards.
Seatbelts will need to meet US standards.


Then you have shipping. This is closer in size to a car than a motorcycle and they would be lucky to get 10 in a container. Then you have truck shipping within the USA

You have to be licensed, bonded, and insured in the USA. You need a US sales force. You need to register VIN numbers. You need to offer financing and be able to buy down APRs to match the competition. You have to have a dealership network (that takes a percentage of the sale price) or some other way to handle distribution, vehicle prep, recalls and warranty claims.

All of this adds up to more than $10K. I was a product manager responsible for a UTV manufactured in India and sold the USA. The little stuff adds up.

Then if you managed to sell the Chinese-made trike here, someone would rear-end a German-brand bicycle, and go viral.

Could be the taper is too abrupt. If the surface boundary of air detaches from the surface, it produces turbulence, and drag. Stretch the car, and the MPG should increase.

"Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles" 5th Ed. copyright is 2016. The graph is cited from an article by W. A. Mair in 1978. The transition to the taper cannot be abrupt as in the "ice cream cone" profile. The article points out that many cars use a 10 degree taper to good effect as in the tests done using the Mercedes Benz C111. So yes, an exponential curve is better than lopping off at a given angle.

This would actually be easier than a UTV, 3 wheels means motorcycle in the US. I don't think that will stand once somebody actually does some real production and gets a ton on the road but in the meantime they just need motorcycle safety and emissions which are easy in comparison. Still $10,000 isn't going to happen but this company does make an e-bike less than I could put one together myself using the least expensive parts available so who knows. $10,000 also shurely doesn't cover things like shipping, it doesn't for any car's or motorcycle's MSRP.

Any company that puts an airbag in a vehicle that doesn't meet US standards is in for a world of hurt the first time someone is in a crash and gets injured.

So don't put an airbag in it.

That would be one solution - if they hadn’t already promised the vehicle would be equipped with airbags.

That is the problem with all these scammer trike companies. They promise all the features of a car for the price of a motorcycle. That should be a red flag to anyone. Any large investor takes one look at the business plan and walks away. So they crowdsource and bilke small investors and dreamers instead.

Maybe the airbag is in the suspension. Maybe it's an option. I agree though and was trumpeting this on the Elio thread endlessly. Just market it as a safer motorcycle. I say use handlebars like the Arcimoto as well. Arcimoto has it figured out, all they need is a sleek plastic body. They aren't that much over $10,000. Certainly with more scale they could be under $10,000.

Yes, in 1978 the National Maximum Speed Limit was 55 mph. At 55, air can follow a more abrupt angle than at 75. I'm going with the 15 degree quote, rather than the 22 degrees that was OK in 1978.

This project continues to limp along

The $9999 car is now $20000

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cro...artengine/amp/

Based on all of my Internet training I will now blame you for this bad news.

Gerb