Southern New England - New York MPG Meetup
 

The event is planned for Sunday, October 26 in the Berkshire Mountains in MA. This post was updated Oct 7, 2014, so anyone seeing this for the first time gets the whole story right here. There are some follow up posts in this thread as we discussed different ways to plan the meetup, but our settled plan is here in this first post.

A fuel economy challenge and meetup.

Meet: Sun Oct 26, 12 noon, at Pontoosuc Park on Hancock Road, Pittsfield, MA.
The weather will be a bit cool, but should not be wintry.
Here's the plan: :)

We've settled on driving this loop from the park, up Mount Graylock, and back to the park. It's just over 44 miles:
Mount Geylock MPG rally course - Pittsfield, MA
Thanks to Sheepdog44 for the route details!
It's a beautiful scenic route, and we should see some good fall foliage, while driving scenic country roads. There are some noteworthy grades, both up and down, but most of the route is either a gentle slope or level. The route link above has a nice elevation display and notes on grades.

The route passes a gas station just a mile or so after leaving the park, going North on Rte 7. We'll fill up there, and top up again at the end of the run (heading South at that time), to get our mpg for the run.

I envision lunch before the Mt Graylock run. Fellowship, and comparing mods, rides, and notes can be before and/or after the drive. It's a one-day event; back home the same day unless someone drives in from very far away.

We'll handicap the scoring, using EPA estimated combined city/highway mpg. Basically, like what EcoModder does, in calculating your improvement over the EPA estimates: Actual mpg / EPA Estimate mpg = your score.

Of course, we will have the raw mpg scores too, there's no way to ignore those numbers!

We have about a half dozen people already "in"; there's definitely room for more.

I'm fine with Springfield or Albany, Worcester is acceptable. I live in the scenic Berkshire mountains in MA too. At least 90% of New Yorkers would agree, They love our trees in October.

Poughkeepsie i don't like. The Taconic Parkway is an MPG killer and just horrible. The one thing about driving to a destination from different places is that all the routes are different. I live at high elevation, so everyplace is all downhill for me.

I'm in the Springfield MA area and I would be interested. I'm going to be in the middle of moving at that time so I will be pretty busy but I'll do my best to free up some time to attend. If there is going to be an MPG rally it would make more sense for everyone to use the same route, otherwise the numbers aren't relevant for comparison purposes.

I am interested and could possibly go to this. I hope to have mt wheel skirts and strakes rebuilt by then, and if I don't, then it will be too cold anyway.

I'm interested...
 

I could do Albany or Springfield.

Wow - already four people interested, plus myself.
:)

Looks like we're centering on Albany or Springfield, with some mention of Worcester MA. However as any additional people chime in, we'll see where the overall preference leads us.

As for the downhill run thing affecting an mpg competition -
Sheepdog, we'll just have to penalize you 10 mpg!
Kidding of course.
Seriously Sheepdog44, what altitude are you at?
What lower start point could you get to? Start point is your choice.

Springfield elevation: 70'
Albany airport elevation: 285'
I looked these up.

Another plan might be to have the return trip also count in the mpg competition. That would balance off any climbs and descents. The down side would be that we wouldn't have those results till after our meetup.

Glad to see this many people interested, right off the bat.
Thanks, guys!

Who else is interested?

Interested yes but unable to commit at this point in time. Will keep an eye on this though........
~CrazyJerry

Worcester is a good choice. Sunday I think would be a better choice to appeal to larger #s of participation. I've made contact with the director of Thomson Speedway in CT. about hosting an event next year at that facility.

A manual type poll re. a few choices to be made:

smokey442, good to see you here.

Smokey suggested Sunday (Oct 26) might be better than Saturday, and also suggested Worcester.
I'm good either way. I want to see how to get the largest number of people attending our little event.

Here's a low-tech poll

We need to decide a few things.
Everyone interested in joining us, I hope you'll please answer these questions.
You can post here, or send me a pm if you prefer.

1) The Date
I prefer Sat Oct 25
I prefer Sun Oct 26
I'm good with either

2) The City
Let me know Yes/No, whether each of these would work for you.
You can say "Yes" to any or all of these.
Springfield, MA
Worcester, MA
Albany, NY
That way we can settle on the city that works for the most people here.

3) Drive in mpg competition - how much do you guys like this idea?
(Please see first post in this thread for some details)
We could have a 50-mile minimum distance, 75 seems like a lot
We've had thoughtful comments on the idea, need to decide whether to include it in our meetup.

Let me know Yes/No, for these three scenarios (you can say "yes" to all):
I would be in for a drive-in mpg competition
I would be in for an mpg competition loop in/near the meetup area
I would be at the meetup even if there's no mpg competition

Notes re. the drive-in competition idea -

Downside: Different routes for everyone
Upside: You pick your start point and route, so you can use small roads or whatever you prefer. No fair loading your car onto a flatbed!
Upside: After driving an hour or whatever to get to our meetup - with a matching drive to get back home afterwards - you won't be driving another 50-100 miles in the meetup locale for an MPG competition.

1) Sunday
2) No Springfield, No Worcester, Yes Albany (I changed my mind on Springfiel)
3) No on the MPG idea (to small a distance)

I could probably do either day as long it's not too early in the morning. Springfield and Worcester are good for me, Albany less so. And I think having an Eco run that everyone drives would be best.

Here are my thoughts 1. Sunday afternoon. 2 Worcester (several reasons) 3 Every one drives the same route for a better apples-apples comparison. Also use EPA figures for baseline for each vehicle. If anyone is interested I could host a seminar at my shop after the event showing the engine mods made and methods to improve every ones fuel economy.

UPDATES:

Which day:
Two people prefer Sunday vs. Sat, no other comments yet on that topic.
So likely will change it to Sunday 10/26, pending any additional comments.

Location:
We have approx equal interest in Springfield and Worcester
Less interest in Albany
Other cities are fading from our list

Competition Type:
Looks like my idea to turn the drive TO the meetup into an mpg competition is fading.
There's more interest in driving a loop of the meetup area.
Still awaiting more comments on this.
Should we plan that?
We'll ask help in planning a route from anyone familiar with the chosen locale.

Or if people are more interested in swapping ideas and examining mod projects, we could concentrate our time on that instead.

Is anyone driving a car/truck/bike that has no EPA estimate??? I'm good with handicapping an mpg competition that way but I want to check that point.

Just throwing it out there that i live in the most scenic area of Mass. Berkshire county/ Pittsfield MA, halfway between Springfield and Albany. There's a perfect starting spot at a parking lot on Pontoosuc lake that over looks Mount Greylock where we can BBQ/ picnic. Really beautiful roads for hypermiling, and if you want we can ascend Mount Greylock with views of NY/VT/MA and windmills on the mountain tops. The leaves will have all turned red by then.

I'll participate with this plan.
 

I agree living in Bennington, VT I know the beauty of it all. I'm in if this is the venue.

Sheepdog44 and FordFiestaS,
Thanks for this.

Please, let's hear from the others whether you'd drive to meet at this location.

I'm already keeping a tally of how many could attend at each location. This is one more location for people to say yes-no on. Weigh in, please! The location with the most 'yes' votes wins. I'm personally voting 'yes' for every location mentioned so far.

I was asked to post some more details of my suggestion.

It does require brakes and or engine braking. But no stop and go. The view is great though. There are several pullover scenic views on the road, not to mention the top. This was part of NY/MA/VT mpg rally that was held for several years a while back. BTW it's all paved, under 55mph roads. The ascent road is like 25-35mph.

It is a bit of a climb, but it's worth it for the people coming from different places. And everyone takes the same route soeveryone takes that portion of the mpg hit.

We can take route 7 north from Pontoosuc lake (Pittsfield) which is a gentle grade up and a very gentle descent that you can engine off coast for miles. Turn on route 43 which is more gliding down hill at 35-40mph through some rural country into Williamstown. This is the portion were you rack up the mpg.

Then take the climb up Greylock. It's 1 part climb. Take the view at the top. And then the descent is 2X as long as the climb which is good for mpg but requires either brakes or engine braking. The Mountain climb takes you back to the start. The whole road is views of the Catskills in NY. At the top there a stone tower (War memorial) you can climb, i'll have to see if it's open. You can see into central Mass past Springfield. There's also a lodge at the top.

It's a really nice route that has a purpose. I doubt you'll find a better route in any city. No stop signs or traffic lights. It's like a mandatory scenic route that all the motorcyclists and out of state tourists take.

There's plenty of parking both at the start and the top. Especially on weekends, the roads are very lightly traveled so we can go as slow as we want without upsetting people. It's a simple route with few turns that is easy to follow.

Votes tally - as of 9/25/14

Locations:
Springfield: 4 - in the lead
Worcester: 3.5 (for sheepdog44, it's only "acceptable")
Mt. Graylock: 3
Albany: 2

We haven't yet heard from Changzuki or Neil Blanchard on locations.
Anyone can put in a vote for the Mt Graylock location, and raise its total. I think the Mt Graylock loop looks like a great run, and the route is already worked out. Other locations will require more effort to determine a route.

Preferred day:
Sunday: 2 votes
Saturday: 0
Sunday takes the win.


Some support for handicapping cars based on EPA mpg estimate. We'll go with that, unless anyone is driving something that doesn't have an EPA estimate. We certainly will also see the plain-numbers raw mpg scores.

There were a few comments that any mpg competition should have all cars driving the same route, so that's a done deal. Not much support for the drive-to-the-event mpg competition idea. Oh well, I tried.

I'm at a bit of a disadvantage because my HV battery is not fully functional so I have no electric assist. That also makes a hilly route like Mt Greylock more of a chore for me. But if that's the consensus I'll still try to make it. My attendance also depends on me being on or ahead of schedule with moving so it is still tentative.

I'll vote for Mount Greylock, because I like rural roads much more than highways; though Springfield would be fine. Either one would put me over the 75 mile minimum.

Sunday is actually worse for me, though I could still come.

This weekend is my last best chance to get my new wheel skirts / stakes finished up.

NeilBlanchard, Git 'er done!

Sorry for the longish drive. I'm driving from Mystic, CT, it's about 2.5 hours at highway speeds.

The 75 (later 50) mile minimum isn't in play any longer. It was part of the scheme for the now discarded drive-to-the-meetup version of a fuel economy challenge. Of course nothing prevents any of us from measuring that. ;)

Bruce,
Please don't hold any itinerary waiting for my response.. A personal goal was reached the GGP and I'm quite happy to move along.

Looking forward to the outcome if you folks will share a post-gathering update though.

~CrazyJerry

Updated tally:

Locations:
Mt. Graylock: 4.5 votes - this is our location.
Springfield: 4
Worcester: 3.5 (for sheepdog44, it's only "acceptable")
Albany: 2

4.5 votes for Mt Graylock, for the win. That's the location.
I counted Formula413 as a half vote for Graylock, based on his notes in post #20.
I voted for Worcester, Springfield and Mt Graylock, but didn't mention it here till this post now.

Sat vs Sun: 1 vote for Sat, 2 for Sun, so it looks like it will be on Sunday.

Changzuki, you certainly earned my respect with your excellent showing at this year's GGP. I'll be more than glad to see you at the Mt Graylock event if you are able to make it.

Sheepdog44 provided me with a link to the route:
Mount Geylock MPG rally course - Pittsfield, MA
I needed some time playing with the map to get the hang of it. Magnified enough, you can see each mile marker on the route, and use that with the "Cue Sheet" which shows the turns. The elevation map at the bottom of the screen shows the summit at the 30.4 mile mark.

Our event is shaping up!

MEETUP TIME

Needs to be decided.
I'm driving in from about 3 hours away, NeilBlanchard is driving nearly that far.
I suggest meeting at 11 a.m. or any time after that.

Other comments on this?

I'm in! My Greylock is grand.
 

I'm ready to roll.

Should be a grand time.

Only suggestion I have is the WX can be an issue that time of year up there. Review there website for particulars relating to early closure due to the WX etc.

Just a suggestion.

I'm excited.

WX is weather just to clarify.
 

Weather @ that time of year can be a serious factor. The elevation is so dang high on Mt Greylock.

Weather at that elevation is not an issue. I hike to the top regularly and the temperature is usually very near that of the base. The tower at the top has been closed since last year, so we will not be able to take the staircase up it. The views will still be spectacular, but the tower was icing on the cake.

Since i live in the area, i'll make a flyer and place them on the all the eco cars around town. I have several group contacts who may be interested. @Changzuki, if you could make that would be leverage in getting others to attend!

There is actually no advantage for hybrid cars for this route. And disabling the HV battery is beneficial. You don't want force regen going uphill! I'll be switching mine off as well.

Speaking of batteries - my Accord will be set up with approx 200 Amp hours of lead acid and lithium ion batteries. I just installed the most recent 70 AH yesterday.

Alternator output cable is disconnected, and those batteries should give a run time of about 8 hours. I don't want to think about what the two lead acids weigh!

I just meant I won't be able to use assist going up or regen going down. But I'm still interested.

Bump.
I'm looking for any helpful input from you guys on meetup time.
As noted below, I'm looking for any time 11 am or after.

I think we'll meet at the park noted in Sheepdog's route, then go north on 7 about a mile to the gas station where we'll top up and zero our odometers/GPSs etc. Then meet again at the station afterwards.

Going to need lunch too. I'm vegan, I think there's another vegan among us?? Need to decide whether to eat before or after our trip up Mt Graylock.

Speak up, folks!

Yeah definitely no earlier than 11am for me, and yes I'm vegan too but I'm not picky if we're going to grab lunch somewhere. Approximately how long does our route take to drive?

Bump.
I edited the first post in this thread:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post446033,
to show our updated meetup plan, with the link to the route we'll drive and other info.

We'll meet at noon.

More people would be great!

Sounds interesting and only 33 miles from my house. If the weather's good I might take a ride over to see you all in my Fit EV. When you say Pontoosuc Park on Hancock Road, do you mean in the boat launch parking lot?

Yeah. That's the spot. You should join us for "energy" economy rally.

Difinitely, please join us if you're able.
An EV would be a welcome addition.
This event should be mostly about sharing ideas and experiences, just as much as being about the mpg contest driving the Mt Graylock loop.

Of course an EV will get infinite mpg. Wins top prize! Seriously though, since we plan to score on actual efficiency vs EPA estimate, we might be able to calculate a meaningful score for an EV.

I'll be coming out to say hello and kick tires with you guys. The only way to measure the amount of electrical energy used is to start and finish at a ChargePoint station. Top up before the start and then recharge immediately afterwards. The ChargePoint chargers record exactly how many kW's were used during post event recharging. They are much more accurate than pumping gasoline. ;)

We just leased a Leaf today - it is too far for me to drive it. My wheel skirts and strakes are mostly in place on my xA.

Nice! Another EV convert. Congrats Neil. :)