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botsapper 12-04-2013 12:28 PM

Stop, stop, stop, electric thief!!!
 
Now you go to jail for...5 cents worth of electricity.

Electric car owner charged for plugging in at Ga. school

brucey 12-04-2013 12:34 PM

"He took something that did not belong to him."

Considering it's a public school, that his child attends, I'm not sure that argument applies.

You might as well charge someone who uses your bathroom with theft; After all, they didn't buy that toilet paper, soap, or water that they used. Much less the electricity needed to keep the light on in there.

A judge will surely throw this out. Right?



...Right?

Frank Lee 12-04-2013 12:37 PM

He was "charged" LOL

Superfuelgero 12-04-2013 12:44 PM

If it got to this stage, not likely. He was charged after 10 days, which in Ga means he was true billed and a judge signed off on the warrant. Sounds political, but it's not a bad precedent to set (charging etiquette). Really if you think about it, he could have asked and prevented all of this.

Frank Lee 12-04-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucey (Post 401849)
"He took something that did not belong to him."

Considering it's a public school, that his child attends, I'm not sure that argument applies.

You might as well charge someone who uses your bathroom with theft; After all, they didn't buy that toilet paper, soap, or water that they used. Much less the electricity needed to keep the light on in there.

A judge will surely throw this out. Right?



...Right?

Especially ironic, considering that public school funding is one of the most inequitable scams on Earth.

rmay635703 12-04-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xntrx (Post 401851)
Really if you think about it, he could have asked and prevented all of this.

False, like my church, EVEN IF YOU OFFER TO PAY, they won't allow it, (schools are notarious for that attitude) that was part of the reason I had to replace my battery pack a year early because I could not find a safe place to borrow or pay for 5 cents of electricity.

Perhaps some laws need to be made that if you temporarily steal electricity (less than a days worth) the max penalty is the court cost plus the actual cost of the electricity,

That should stop this type of penny stealing BS and knee to groin ideots who are willing to sue to get their nickle.

Frank Lee 12-04-2013 01:47 PM

bennelson better watch out...

botsapper 12-04-2013 02:39 PM

Better figure out your EV travel itinerary, your EV map app or else...the AAA mobile electric charging assistance trucks. How to Find a Charging Station

ShadeTreeMech 12-04-2013 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 401856)
False, like my church, EVEN IF YOU OFFER TO PAY, they won't allow it, (schools are notarious for that attitude) that was part of the reason I had to replace my battery pack a year early because I could not find a safe place to borrow or pay for 5 cents of electricity.

It must be a big city thing. In Arkansas, I had a motorcycle that had a bad alternator. I simply kept a car battery in my luggage rack to keep the bike running. When I did sometimes run out of juice, not only would people let me charge my battery, but they would loan me the use of their charger.

Another time I ran out of gas going to work (I had a carb that would get the float stuck and drain the gas at random). It was about 12 at night and I was miles from the nearest gas station. I knocked on a stranger's door and begged for some gas. He gave me a gallon and told me not to worry about it.

The idea that a church would say no to letting you have a bit of electricity is shocking.

redyaris 12-04-2013 02:59 PM

The first step is the preliminary hearing at which point the prosicuter will offer a reduced charge or fine. You refuse the offer and a trial date is set.
You then get disclosure on what evidence will be used against you at trial
you then prepare your defence.
Trial day arives and you show up at court and let the prosicuter know you are hear to defend yourself. You set down and wait your turn to be heard.
Your name is called, and you step up
The prosicuter then stands up and says the state would like to withdraw the charges.

The reason they don't drop charges before trial is they get lots of convictions on people who don't show up...

The reason they don't go to trial is that even if they get a conviction the judge is likely to say "fine 5 cents" or some other rediculess low amount. Sending the mesage... don't wast the courts time...

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 12-04-2013 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xntrx (Post 401851)
Sounds political, but it's not a bad precedent to set (charging etiquette). Really if you think about it, he could have asked and prevented all of this.

Ditto.

P-hack 12-04-2013 04:36 PM

Yah, it is a bad precedent. 15 hours in jail for $0.05 cents, plus lots of legal hassles and expenditures by him and the state. Meanwhile US leads the world in number of people behind bars and per capita.

Georgia is really strict on "stealing"
Georgia Shoplifting Charges: Penalties and Defense | Criminal Law

Frank Lee 12-04-2013 04:38 PM

This is what happens when common sense isn't common anymore.

rmay635703 12-04-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech (Post 401866)
It must be a big city thing. In Arkansas, I had a motorcycle that had a bad alternator. I simply kept a car battery in my luggage rack to keep the bike running.

The idea that a church would say no to letting you have a bit of electricity is shocking.

i brought the battery out of my suburban to charge with the forklift at work a few times when I had a short. Nobody cared.

As for the church they had a bunch of right wing ninnies that believed I could somehow remove $20 or $30 of $0.11 per kwhr electricity in 1-2 hours out of a 15amp outlet @ 1200 peak watts. i offered to put my kilowatt meter and told them to call the utility to find out how much they pay and I would gladly pay them for it.

They said it caused too much trouble if I charged, sadly they aren't remotely unique, I have been asked if my electric bill is $500 a month because of the EV a few times, people just have no concept of how electricity works and how its billed.

Frank Lee 12-04-2013 07:41 PM

Hmmmm...

When I see people in restaurants grab about 50 paper napkins- 5 cents worth?- should they be cuffed, stuffed, and jailed?

How about in men's rooms everywhere, when guys wash their hands (IF they do) and they take about 5' of paper towel off the roll? Geez, they must have big hands. :rolleyes:

How about when people grab huge handfuls of packets of condiments, then don't use them, then throw them away when they leave?

vskid3 12-04-2013 10:05 PM

If anything, the officer should have issued a warning or citation. I bet you could figure out a way for it to be a parking ticket, say having it plugged in in a spot not marked for charging is a hazard.
There's a reason I just shake my head when the government says they don't have enough money. There's plenty of dollars, just not enough sense.

oil pan 4 12-05-2013 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 401931)
They said it caused too much trouble if I charged, sadly they aren't remotely unique, I have been asked if my electric bill is $500 a month because of the EV a few times, people just have no concept of how electricity works and how its billed.

Possible if your electric bill was nearly $500 with out the EV.

People are stupid.
I figure charging a single electric vehicle (car) would add no more than $10 a month to ones electric bill.
Why would any one own an electric vehicle if it increased ones electric bill by hundreds of dollars every month? :rolleyes:

Cd 12-05-2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech (Post 401866)

The idea that a church would say no to letting you have a bit of electricity is shocking.


Keep 'em comin' guys :D:D:D

fbov 12-05-2013 03:33 PM

Interesting thread... but this isnt' about electricity, it's about courtesy; after reading the police's side of the story, I hope they throw the book at him!
Frank
We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. ...The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. ...Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. ...the school resource officer ...recognized Mr. Kamooneh. ... (who) had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.
... but the decision (to pursue theft charges) was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh's son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself.

z_power 12-05-2013 03:55 PM

Placing an outlet in area open for public is a kind of invitation to use it. Single board or sticker saying "No use without permission" could simplify this case in laweyer's eyes. Usage of common sense wouldn't cause any case ;)

sheepdog 44 12-05-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbov (Post 402046)
We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. ...

You see someone plugged into an outlet and -this persons- first reaction is to call 911? The whole incident is full of misunderstandings.

On the topic of churches or businesses refusing to let you charge even if you offer to pay. I think the main reason would be ignorance on the subject making it to much of a hassle. Letting you charge for free is one thing, but when you get into remuneration for they know not how much electricity, or what cost, or how to charge you for it. I wouldn't say they are against EV's, they'd just rather not deal with it.

Frank Lee 12-05-2013 05:04 PM

Calling 911 over seeing a car plugged in strikes me as an abuse of the 911 system and the caller should be warned.

TheSGC 12-05-2013 09:40 PM

I have never had a problem charging in MA. I get permission before I charge, but I charged at my college, local elementary schools, peoples houses, etc. I even got to park my EV on the front curb of a Lowes and charge because I ran out of juice, but my meter still read 75% left...

Now that we have Charge Point stations everywhere it's easier to charge, but I have never heard any anyone calling the police over charging. That's just stupid.

XYZ 12-05-2013 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbov (Post 402046)
Interesting thread... but this isnt' about electricity, it's about courtesy; after reading the police's side of the story, I hope they throw the book at him!
Frank
We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. ...The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. ...Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. ...the school resource officer ...recognized Mr. Kamooneh. ... (who) had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.
... but the decision (to pursue theft charges) was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh's son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself.

Spin, spin, media spin.

The Gannett news release quoted by the OP certainly was provocative and garnered sympathetic comments in this thread by telling only part of the story. What is important is that much of the story was spun by omission. There is more to the story than what we were led to believe. For a different perspective, now try reading this article:

Ga. Man Arrested for Charging Electric Car at Local Middle School - ABC News

Apparently the guy was being provocative. He already has a reputation with the local police for doing similar things that are marginally or actually illegal. He went looking for trouble and he found it. It's hard to have sympathy for him.

brucey 12-05-2013 11:31 PM

""I'm waiting for them to arrest water drinkers and cell phone chargers," said Kamooneh, a former university professor who is now an investment advisor."

Oh, he's a bean counter. So he's probably thinking he is clever by getting everyone else to pay for those pennies he's saving with this car.

Case is still ridiculous. Still can't imagine this one not getting thrown out.

P-hack 12-05-2013 11:51 PM

shoulda tazed him and called it a day :) "You want free electricity?!?"

ciderbarrel 12-06-2013 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbov (Post 402046)
Interesting thread... but this isnt' about electricity, it's about courtesy; after reading the police's side of the story, I hope they throw the book at him!
Frank
We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. ...The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. ...Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. ...the school resource officer ...recognized Mr. Kamooneh. ... (who) had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.
... but the decision (to pursue theft charges) was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh's son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself.

I guess we now need to lock up everyone charging their phones in airports and stealing 2 cents of electricity each.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 12-06-2013 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-hack (Post 402101)
shoulda tazed him and called it a day :) "You want free electricity?!?"

That's a good one :thumbup:

JasonG 12-06-2013 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYZ (Post 402097)
Spin, spin, media spin.

The Gannett news release quoted by the OP certainly was provocative and garnered sympathetic comments in this thread by telling only part of the story. What is important is that much of the story was spun by omission. There is more to the story than what we were led to believe. For a different perspective, now try reading this article:

Ga. Man Arrested for Charging Electric Car at Local Middle School - ABC News

Apparently the guy was being provocative. He already has a reputation with the local police for doing similar things that are marginally or actually illegal. He went looking for trouble and he found it. It's hard to have sympathy for him.

After reading all of the articles it is hard to have sympathy for him.
He was acting like an activist jerk and got what he deserved.

I'm seeing more public buildings turning off their exterior and lobby receptacle breakers duee to phone and laptop charging.
I expect this to be a growing trend.

elhigh 12-06-2013 11:01 AM

In his book Solo, Noel Perrin wrote about having difficulty finding places that would let him charge. He offered to pay, and sometimes he just plugged in. That was in the 1980s I think, and his car only had about a 35 mile range. He was literally going all the way across the country. Generally the greatest trouble was when he was trying to pay. No one had any contingency plan in place for that nor any precedent to establish a working practice.

The guy's a schmo - interesting, no redline under "schmo," I must have spelled it correctly - for taking power without asking or offering to pay, but having him arrested for what is literally only a few cents' worth of electricity is even more criminal. This is going to fly out of court so fast it'll spin up some wind gennies.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 12-12-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elhigh (Post 402143)
The guy's a schmo - interesting, no redline under "schmo," I must have spelled it correctly - for taking power without asking or offering to pay, but having him arrested for what is literally only a few cents' worth of electricity is even more criminal.

Just fining him would be more reasonable than wasting taxpayers' money with an arrest.

XYZ 12-12-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 402805)
Just fining him would be more reasonable than wasting taxpayers' money with an arrest.

Who would benefit from that action?

Astro 12-13-2013 06:17 AM

I think it all boils down to, he knew he shouldn't be taking the electricity, he knew he shouldn't be on the property, he knew what he was doing was against the owners wishes.

Criminal.

It doesn't matter if it was 5 cents or $500. Knowingly performing a criminal act is the act of a criminal.

What would you do if you came home from work and someone had parked their car in your driveway and were in the middle of siphoning petrol out of your second car into theirs? And then when you approached them to question what they were doing they got all aggressive towards you. And what if this wasn't the first time you caught the person doing this? You had made it very clear to them that this was unacceptable but still they continued doing it over and over???

Would you just shrug and say "Ah well, its only petrol, i can always buy more."?

I think the fact that it was an electric car muddies peoples view of the situation. I think people who drive electric cars like to think of themselves and other electric enthusiasts as good people doing good. But re-read the article and substitute petrol where it says electricity and it may make you feel differently towards the guy.

P-hack 12-13-2013 10:14 PM

my view isn't muddied by the fact that it is an electric car. The punishment should fit the crime, and the crime was $0.05 from an unsecured outlet, not emptying someones tank at $4/gallon. Maybe your view might be muddied by the fact that it is a car, how do you compare siphoning gas to plugging in to an unsecured outlet on public property? I have plugged my laptop into many a school outlet and never had anyone complain. Indeed how many people recharge things in public areas?!?

This was an attitude adjustment, his attitude is what got him a 911 call and the worst treatment by the authorities.

Frank Lee 12-13-2013 11:58 PM

Ooooooo... "criminal"! :eek: Sounds so sinister, illicit, and menacing! :eek:

Want to know where the real criminal activity on school grounds occurs? It is in the Superintendents' six-figure pay package.

When banksters and the like get caught (not all that often) the fine is less than what they stole. I think they just consider it a cost of doing business.

This guy's fine should be less than what he stole... so how about 2 or 3 cents?

P-hack 12-14-2013 12:08 AM

I don't envy our superintendent, even with his 6 figure salary. Parents are the worst creatures to deal with, seriously irrational at times. There are far easier ways to make 6 figures.

Astro 12-14-2013 12:17 AM

Each is entitled to their opinion.
I was just trying to give a different perspective.
Instead of judging the severity of the crime by the dollar amount, judge it by the actions of those involved. I would not like someone stealing from me no matter how much it was.
It only takes a moment to ask the owners permission but if they say no, then even if he thought he should be allowed, he still should have respected the owners wishes and not continued.
If someone asked to plug into my house i would have no hesitation. Like you said it is a small amount. Not quite 5c for me seeing as our electricity supplier charges nearly 40c/kwH, but that is a different sort of crime. :(

P-hack 12-14-2013 12:25 AM

I think they did judge it by the actions though. He acted like a turd. It wasn't the plugging in as much as how he acted indignant and entitled and had previous run-ins with a school his kid doesn't even go to. Plugging in just gave them ammo, his repeated behavior gave them motivation.

P-hack 12-14-2013 12:34 AM

FWIW, I can't find the guys court case in the county system. So I don't know if this got very far at all.

Astro 12-14-2013 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-hack (Post 402941)
Plugging in just gave them ammo, his repeated behavior gave them motivation.

That is very likely exactly what happened.
And now with all the controversy over the media report it will make it just that little bit more difficult for other electric vehicle owners to get permission to plug in.


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