Stretch-Insight as Travel-Van Alternative
 

So I'm forever trying to think of how to travel without spending a ton of money on fuel. Van's are great for travel, but none of them seem to get batter than ~28mpg.

I imagine that an insight stretched via sheet-metal skinned tube-frame could maintain all the aero of the original car and only add a few hundred pounds to the vehicle weight, while preserving all of the factory developed crash hardware and it's enormous economy.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-a8...ch-insight.jpg

I really like bolt-in mods, and imagine that a "kit" could be designed that would require just specific cuts to the car chassis and drilling holes for mounting bolts. Each end would bolt onto a frame in the middle, body panels would fasten on, and electrical would be re-connected to the battery, etc, via an extension harness.

Is this a horrible idea? ;) Has anyone seen other projects like this to reference?

There is an easy way to travel by automobile that gets you great gas mileage.
It is called a tent. Or if you are not into camping, they have things call 'motels'.

Or you could spend years and 10's of thousands of dollars, so you won't spend $2,000 on motels.

and here I just wanted to make mine into a 4 passenger.

I wouldn't take the risk of ruining the Insight's frame. Anyway, isn't it made out of aluminium? So, you'd also have to overcome galvanic corrosion if you'd use a steel tube structure for that stretch...

Dave Cloud to the rescue.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps2sljdf0f.jpghttp://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...psp9fuxuwb.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...psprnd7dvi.jpg

I don't think so. :rolleyes:

This from the same guy that doesn't blink when recommending people swap engines and design and fabricate their own engine management systems? :confused:

Galvanic corrosion- as if nothing is made from dissimilar metals. :rolleyes: Put a layer of paint between 'em and they're good. Look at any older snowmobile chassis with it's steel bulkhead riveted to an aluminum tunnel.

I didn't realize they were made of aluminum. That does present some additional challenge. :) Insulators at junctions and bonding rather than welding... maybe...

I could see using polyurethane bushings where the steel frame mounts to the reinforced points on the insight unibody. Then skinning it with aluminum sheeting that could be riveted to the insight panels. Composite/poly brackets could be bonded/riveted to the aluminum paneling to attach it to the steel frame and allow it to be stressed for rigidity.

I agree about not wanting to mess up the frame... It'd be a shame to do this to anything but a beater, at least to start with.

@rmay, do you already have a first gen insight?

Awesome photos, Frank. I really like the red metro... !

I am not sure that a stretched Insight would maintain its aerodynamics. Don't you have increased skin friction on flat surfaces?

What about an aerodynamic trailer?

Got 'em saved to my computer because I've been considering the same thing.

Problem: RVing while getting good mpgs.

8 mpg = unacceptable. 50 mpg = acceptable.

Ain't gonna happen re-powering an existing RV body.

Oh, and by the way: tents suck.

(A) Solution: econocar stretch.

Years ago I found a K-car stretch limo in a used car lot. Something told me I should have bought it then...

I dunno, this tent doesn't suck...

http://been-seen.com/wp-content/uplo...-We-Love-1.jpg

Umm... it sucks a little less.

Lol, an Insight is basically rated to carry a driver, passenger and a bag of groceries. It would probably fold in half unless you really fortified the superstructure, and then it just wouldn't move.

I read on another forum that the 2nd gen insights have about a 900lb load limit, not including the drivers. I'd logic that I should be able to do a few hundred lbs for an extension, then ;)

It might make sense to brace against the strut towers, or elsewhere, though, to help stiffen the chassis, and install stiffer springs to maintain ride height.

All this talk about tents is silly. Tents are so purpose-built, they all suck for some stuff and are awesome for other stuff. The bus tent is probably awesome for camping at hippy festivals, but would suck for hiking. Yadda yadda.

As neat as the concept seems, I've tossed it around in my head quite a while and it seems the easiest way to go is via clever aero expandable trailer, even if that costs a few mpg.

That's a stretched G1 in the pic, rated for about 350 lb including the driver :)

Long as you didn't have to get in it, you'd be okay

You have a Tacoma that gets mid-twenties with a camper shell on. Why not put the time, energy, and money into one of those aero-toppers (assuming you haven't)? You'd improve the economy of a vehicle you already own, and you could design it to go level with the cab and include tent-sides like the Aerolid

Then you could make yourself a nice truck bed setup.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z1yJWhRWBzA/maxresdefault.jpg

I mean if you want to hack up and stretch a hybrid for the heck of it, then knock yourself out. It just doesn't seem like a practical solution.

I have always been more familiarized with engine swaps than structural mods and bodywork.

How many engines have you converted to Miller Cycle?

Manual drive Mazda MP5. Plenty of space, decent mileage.

I love those Metro pics, and I want to like the idea of a stretched Gen 1 Insight. But the added weight for what is already a low power engine makes me wonder. If the OEM car had merely been a 4 seater it would have had some difficulty with significant hill at speed if it had four passengers in it, I suspect. Since I imagine the stretched car woukd be for added freight and bedding... how would you overcome the low-power issue?

Maybe make the extension out of lightweight materials and make it as short as possible, dojng something clever to maximkze space?

James

Stretch Nissan Leaf Electric Limo For Sale On eBay: What Would You Pay?

Many leafs are made into limos, add a 5wk diesel genset and 75mpg at 25mph later. :)

I have messed more with Diesels, and getting a supercharger to use in a Miller is not so easy back here.

Guys,
http://padgett.performanceresearch.us/cars/passide.jpg

With the original BMW turbodiesel and 5-speed manual (!?) the Vixen was supposed to be good for 30mpg.

It isn't as good as a Metro's mileage, but it is WAY better than sleeping in a tent and even better than some motel whose last bedbug eradication program was ineffective.

You made it sound like a guy could go out to the driveway after breakfast with a wrench and have it done by lunchtime.

That's pretty slick, but a bit steep at $100k.

Keeping in mind that this is all a thought experiment until there's actually a car chopped in half... stiffer springs should help w/ the weight. And it looks like DIY turbo setups can be done for a little more than $1k if one knows how to weld the tubes and whatnot. Bumping up to 100Hp would certainly help w/ the hill climbing and freeway merging, since it sounds like power's a concern w/ these cars. I think it's totally do-able. Soon as I move out of this apartment to a proper house with garage. :D rotfl.

A leaf with front end damage + a leaf with rear end damage = $10k or less depending on how much you value the leftovers :)

Could even have 2 batteries if the rear ender wasn't hit too hard.

i've seen stretches on framed (how it's made) vehicles but never uni-body.
i think this was a question based on thoughts, not actually doing it. cost would be out of this enormous world and would require some unobtainium.
it seems to have turned into a pissing match though:

How much do you suppose that Metro stretch cost?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...pslh6llpcy.jpg

Unibody limos: they are a thing:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...unibody%20limo

In fact, used limos are dirt cheap.

I've already seen a handful of unibody vehicles stretched. Some had too much flex while others retained a good structural rigidity.

I can be pissier than you can!

Wait, no, too lazy...

Everybody knows that the cool kids stretch the body and then chop the roof! :)

It's possible in my opinion. There really is no structure in the rear besides the 4 mounting points for the rear suspension. The cabin is a good structural box with two rear aluminum curved bars coming out back for said mounts. The rest is not integral. You could cut all the sheet metal in the back out and it might drive fine. It's just for cosmetics and aerodynamics.

For space use the rear isn't flat on the bottom though. Only the spare wheel well cavity reaches the bottom. The rest is raised to where the ima box bolts on.

http://99mpg.com/Data/Resources/down..._side_view.jpghttp://99mpg.com/Data/Resources/down...frame_rear.jpghttp://99mpg.com/Data/Resources/down...asurements.jpg

A stretch could improve the aerodynamics by raising the fineness ratio from the 3 to 1 found in the stock Insight to a higher value, ideally around 5 to 1.

I always feel like Ecomodder.com is in grave peril when Xist jumps in to save the day with Windows Paint.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1436051465

The original Insight is 3.945 meters (12 feet 11 5⁄16 inches)
Stretching the car from the apex back by one-third (oops) would make it 4.566 meters (14 feet 11 49⁄64 inches)
The proper 5:1 stretch would make it 5.187 meters (17 feet 7⁄32 inches)

Just like to chime in with my experiences regarding the Insight and cargo capacity / aero trailers.

Although it's only rated from the factory for something like 450lbs of cargo + passengers (two large passengers can exceed that!), I've seriously exceeded that before, and had no issues with ground clearance, handling or power. Braking is another matter, but taking it slow really helps and hybrid braking makes a noticeable improvement.

I recently used my Insight to move from Florida to Vermont, and drove along the spine of the Appalachians with the following:

Myself, my wife, my border collie and my sheltie
~500lbs of stuff in the car
trailer loaded with 1000+ lbs
Total estimated in excess of 3500lbs, with the car coming in at ~1850lbs

We drove to the top of Clingman's Dome (6,650ft, 4,500ft relief), frequently WoT in 2nd gear @ 4000+ RPM, and had no problems with cooling even with an upper grille block. Going down the other side I experienced no brake fade, despite the grade being very steep at times. When on the open highway I was comfortable keeping up with traffic when necessary, and still averaged 57mpg with a target speed of 60mph over the 1,500 mile trip. Braking distances were a big long for comfort, so I kept my distance.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...pslhk0twwv.jpg

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...psldexlwga.jpg

I've removed the IMA from Insight #2. There is enough space for a single rear facing seat in the spare wheel well, and i've removed enough weight to compensate for a 3rd person. The rear doesn't have a flat floor for a second rear seat. Many portions are maybe a foot higher than the floor. Would be easy enough to weld a flat floor in if you had the skills.

As far as camping in it, at 5'5 and 130lbs i've slept in the stock hatch and it was comfy. Slept great! Only you have to deal with warming the car with the engine off, and ventilation. You have to crack the windows and you quickly condense moisture on the glass.

The teeny-tiny brakes in the Insight make me think adding some kind of trailer brakes - even el cheapo surge brakes - would be a good thing, if only for peace of mind.

Your towing setup looks the bomb. With a rig like that I could give up the truck, except I'm deeply in love with it.

I would try and find out what grade of aluminum the unibody is made out of, if it's 3000,5000 or 6000 I'd just weld it up. TIG would be best, but I pulse spray MIG 3003 .040 everyday.

I'm 100% sure it is possible to stretch an insight, but for 4 passengers you may consider going to a MKiV Jetta TDI wagon and aero modding that, yes much heavier, but not as drastic (or as cool) of mods required. That said, if you just need more cargo space, then I'd do a trailer behind insight.