Tallest geared tranny for '97 civic HX?
 

So I want to swap out the tranny on my HX for a taller geared tranny, what's my best bet? I kinda 'have' to do it anyway as the tranny in the HX is leaking so it either has to be rebuilt or replaced, and if I can get a used one for around 300 then it would be cheaper to replace it. Rebuilding it will cost about 800 and replacement is only 250+ the Transmission.

California98Civic put together an awesome list of Honda transmissions a while back... ah yes, here it is:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ios-26279.html

I can't tell you what is compatible with your engine though.

If the transmission is leaking that does not mean it needs to be rebuilt. Imput shaft seal or axle seals are the only leak points. Leaking at the bottom of the bell housing is imput shaft seal and you need to drop the tranny. Axle seals can be done with the tranny in the car. Could be as simple as the axle not being completely in place. Imput shaft bearings seem to be the most common bearing failure in Hondas. You can tell if the bearing is noisy by putting your ear on the shifter and listening for the noise which sounds like nuts rolling around in a can.

Might also be the speedo sensor o ring.

regards
Mech

In addition to what Mech says above, consider the shifter linkage seal too. But if you do want to swap it, you can see the variety of possibilities in the list I made. Your tallest choice, however, is the 1992-1995 VX/CX with the 3.250 FD. It is an easy direct bolt-on.

The 92-95 is compatible with 96-00?

Also, thanks mechanic, I'll replace those first and see what happens.

I believe the CRX HF tranny is taller, but it's cable rather than hydro. Dunno about the bolt pattern.

Not sure about OBD2 compatibility on the pre 96 transmissions. On Nissans there was a sensor that counted the teeth on the flywheel ring gear and it did passive cylinder balance by comparing the rate of acceleration and deceleration of the pistons on each combustion cycle.

It can tell you which cylinder is not producing as much power as the rest as a percentage and is a valuable diagnostic tool.

I'm not sure about Hondas but OBD2 was required on 96 models. Ask me how I know about it?

I rebuilt a 95 200sx which was a coupe version of the new model Sentra for 1995, first year of OBD2 for that model. The sensor was broken in the wreck. Nissan quoted me $850 for the sensor. I checked the manual version and it was $35. They had made a mistake in pricing the auto version of the sensor and they finally got it straight.

That sensor lit a CEL every second engine start. It was not a primary system sensor, just a part of OBD2 diagnostics that allowed cylinder balance to be compared without disabling anything.

regards
Mech

Oh wow, I'll look into it before doing anything. Idk if I'll even replace it, if replacing those seals fixes it, I'm not gonna waste the money.

Not 100% sure, but I don't think OBDII Honda transmissions are wired any differently from OBDI's. They're largely dumb boxes and should work fine if they bolt up. In my OBDI tranny (Del Sol), there's only the VSS and reverse switch to turn on the backup lights. The differences (I vs II) should be only in the alternator, distributor, and maybe a knock sensor. (??)

Read this in another thread, it does seem it will work.

Any '92 - '00 D-series transmission will work (this includes all '92 - '00 civics and Del Sols, except the '99 - '00 Civic Si, and the '94 - '97 Del Sol VTEC)


Also guys, I noticed while driving around (about 95F temp outside) that my coolant was between 201-207F, is this normal? Just making sure.

Lots of people have bolted 1992-1995 trannys onto 1996-00 engines. It is an identical part. I did it 16 months ago on this my daily driver, put a 1993 CX trans on my 1998 DX engine. It really could not be simpler. Look at my chart that Daox linked above. I promise. I checked all details against the factory service manuals and/or multiple other sources. If you can find errors, let me know and I'll edit the tables.

I see those temps sometimes too. My rad fan will come on occasionally in the low 200 range and bring it back down to 194. I have even seen 217 spikes when I cut the engine (and therefore the fan) at the end of a long hard climbs.

It never goes below 200F. At least I haven't seen it go that low in the daytime. And thanks, so what are the best trannys I can get? 92-95 CX or 96-00 VX right?

There was no 96-00 VX; you own it's successor, the 96-00 HX. But your gearing is not as tall as the VX's was. The 1992-1995 Vx and the 1992-1995 CX had the exact same gearing. Look for one of those.

Ohhhh ok thanks

I did some checking and it looks like, from the information I could glean from the internet, that Honda uses a sensor in the distributor to accomplish what Nissan did with the flywheel ring gear sensor. If that is the case then the transmissions would be interchangeable without 0BD2 issues.

Sorry for the misinformation. Also Calcivic has spent a lot of time on this subject in his pursuit of mileage. I think his knowledge trumps my own being more Honda specific compared to mine which was Nissan speciifc.

Also his post about the shift shaft seal is spot on above and beyond my own.

The part I posted about putting your ear on the shifter to listen for imput shaft bearing noise is still relevant. I used to test for tranny bearing noises by getting the car up to about 30 MPH, turning the engine off with the clutch disengaged and downshifting as the car slowed down, which would make the transmission bearing noises much more obvious. This assumes the tranny is in a functional car, which is not the case with many used transmissions and one should always be aware of "used" transmissions and the reason they were removed in the first place.

Personally I have always felt that the "if it ain't broke, don't "fix" it, as that can, in many cases, turn into much more work than was originally anticipated.

regards
Mech

Yes! Totally agree. "Test, don't guess" so that you don't "fix" (and waste $$) on what ain't broken.

I completely agree with the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' as I have learned this lesson the very hard way recently... I'm just worried about this tranny leak as I drive 38 miles a day, 8 miles of which is a pretty steep uphill then I have to take a 2 mile stretch of 6% grade, so if it does get low because of the leak, it could leave me stranded and make me lose a day of work, which is an immediate 78$ loss (I only make 9.75 sue me). That's why I need to make sure this is fixed, the proper way before I sell the Corolla.

Also, calicivic, if you don't mind, can you compile a list of everything that could be leaking on the tranny? I'm just gonna replace them all at once so another doesn't start leaking in a year.

Also, I have officially gone through 1qt of oil since I bought the car. It doesn't burn oil mind you, it leaks oil. Also I changed the distributor gasket and had a timing belt job done so I'm sure that took like 1/5-1/4 a quart but Yea.

Ok guys, another thing, what all could potentially leak oil on a car? From my very limited knowledge the oil pan, head gasket, oil drain bolt(which is leaking), camshaft, rear main seal, distributor gasket and valve cover gasket right? What else is there?

The list is pretty short:
Input Shaft Seal (tranny must come off).
Driver side drive shaft seal
Passenger side drive shaft seal
Shifter linkage seal
Tranny oil drain plug
Tranny oil fill plug

Oil, of course can flow around the engine parts and the block, however, so be very sure that the leak is coming from the transmission by eliminating other possibilities, other seals, elsewhere on the engine that might leak oil that eventually drips off the bottom of the block or transmission. Distributor seal? Oil filter seal? ...I'm in that process right now.

I'm not very confident that my tranny is leaking... I took the fill plug off and it's still full of fluid... And I looked and I can't find a single leak on the entire tranny. The main oil leak is right under the distributor, I already replaced the distributor gasket so it isn't that, it's right under that is where it's leaking..

I forget what's there under the dizzy. Could be a sensor or two... not sure what else. Of course, if the seal for fhe dizzy was done incorrectly, it could still be that too. And there could always be more than one leak in general.

Here is the leak. The arrow points in the main direction, but the leak is up under there. The bottom picture just kinda shows how much is there as you can see the transmission is completely covered in oil.

http://imageshack.com/a/img853/5752/9g9s.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img842/7703/gkly8.jpg

Seems like it could be the head gasket then. I think your pic shows the upper rad hose, the engine coolant temp sensor, and the dizzy. The head will join the block just about there, just below that sensor and the hose, I believe. So maybe the head gasket.

Distributor seal is known to go bad. A blocked up pcv or breather/separator box will make it worse. A HF trans wont fit your car (mounts are the issue, cable issue can be solved), nor can you swap the guts. I you could, I'd run it, since I have one.

That's interesting. Thanks. Here's a guy on EM who says he paired an 89 HF trans with a VX engine in a fourth gen Civic body. So he would have had the stock fourth gen mount to match the HF transmission, I guess. I wonder if he had to fabricate mounts for the VX engine or if the engine side mounts were the same 4th to 5th gen?

The engine is a bolt in for gen 3-7 for the most part. The trans isn't, it cuts off at the 5th.

Why? I read a comment online once by a guy from, I think, synchrotech, saying that the countershafts are different lengths. Is that why? So a person could not drop a 2.95 fed HF final drive into a fifth or sixth gen transmission?

Yes

I really feared that, but it's not the end of the world I guess.

Also, I already replaced the dizzy o'ring and it didn't help.

Could it possibly be the v-tech solenoid gasket? Someone asked me earlier today if it's ever been changed and I said no. Because I'm sure it never has.

I recommend scrubbing the area clean with soapy water, so you can get a better idea of what's leaking. I ended up replacing the distributor in my Del Sol. I couldn't get to the inner seal (there are two in it) because the screws were seized under cap. New one doesn't leak.

Could it possibly be the v-tech solenoid gasket? Someone asked me earlier today if it's ever been changed and I said no. Because I'm sure it never has.

I had the same problem and it turned out to be the v-tec gasket.

Lots of great points here... you need to do some testing. Start with the cleaning recommended above so you can get the clearest possible read on where the leak originates. You could test for a head gasket leak. I did it recently. $7 or $8 at an O'Reilly and no crawling under the car or even leaning over it much (remembering your earlier back problems) would give you a definitive answer on the head gasket.

It's funny how similar our car problems are at the moment. I am chasing down fluid leaks and just cleaned engine block areas showing leakage so I can get a better read on where oil seems to be coming from. I am suspicious of the dizzy's o-ring seal. Hahaha! Synchronicity.

Good luck. Hang in there.

I remember seeing that post, what is it called exactly? I just got paid today so I'm gonna go ahead and do that... Also, the dizzy o'ring took me like 45 mins to change and that's with taking 2 breaks due to pain. I was amazed on how easy it was to do it myself. If you haven't done it, you might as well just do it so it doesn't start leaking in the future.

The head gasket test is in my modding thread, linked in the signature file below. It was really recent so it will be on one of the last pages.

Well I got the car smogged today and it passed with flying colors, so at least my engine is healthy in that department. A tranny swap to taller gears is out of the question, however. I drove it to work for the first time today, and I had to run in 4th gear just to maintain speed on some of my journey. I can't imagine taller gears really doing me any good, they might even be troublesome in the future. I haven't had time to get the block test done or replace the solenoid gasket but I should have time Monday.

I figured you would come to that conclusion after I saw the kind of grades you'll be driving on. Maybe with some aeromods and weight reduction you'll be able to stay in 5th.

Your fourth gear is probably about the RPM/MPH range of a 1997 Civic EX. I drop to fourth in some places and in one place then down to third. No problem. Hill climbed. All I am doing is roughly matching what I used to do on the same hills in fourth of fifth with my old transmission. But with the CX/VX trans swap, I also have access to a much taller fifth when I want it for the flats cruising. Just downshift, you'll be fine on them thar hills. But I agree... don't swap a perfectly good HX tranny unless you have to. I only did the swap because I thought I needed urgent rebuilding in my old DX trans. It could use rebuilding, it turns out, but it was never urgent or necessary. I was miss-diagnosing a friction sound I was hearing.

Yea haha. And that's what I'm hoping for, I can almost, almost stay in fifth, but just not quite. I'm hoping with a proper grill block, underbelly pan, mud flap delete and repair of my dented hood + gap filling I will be able to, but we will see.

You have to understand, it's not just a quick climb, the part of my commute I'm talking about is just around 8 miles.

Oh **** Opps LOL. I did a 75% lower grill block, and my alarm went off on UG for 217F coolant temp, and by the time I got where I was going my engine was 235 and smoking LOLOL. No grill block for me in 106F outside temps.

Ouch!

That is scary,with the heat lately it does have me worried about putting one on my CRX,even though it's 90% hwy miles I log.

Take it easy on her,will ya?

:)