Tell me if I am crazy Solar RV Escape module
 

I have long toyed to adding Solar power to my So Florida home. Florida is restricting further it looks like power company surplus solar buyback programs, plus they have lots of hoops to jump thru. Additionally, with Florida hurricanes, mounting anything high up unprotected on one's roof seems counterintuitive, especially with something one would really like to have operational post hurricane during a power outage.
Another idea I have toyed with is and just started is converting a 78 passenger COE diesel school bus into a hybrid RV/enclosed race car hauler. It will need its own economical power source for use at the tracks.
So, this is the idea, mount on its roof a 2800?Watt 120/240V solar/grid tied backup system, and come any hurricane, I don't have to worry about booking any high priced non-cancelable high in demand multi day hurricane stays in a hotel that might also become in the storm's path, I just load my food from my home refrig, fuel up, tow a second car on a trailer, and drive away as needed. Return post hurricane and power my home off a transfer switch connected to the RV solar/battery/diesel genset. I live alone so my power needs can be curtailed as power is available and still live comfortably in my home. I likely would oversize the RV with lithium battery capacity for longevity and weight in the RV.
It would be my RV/race car hauler/hurricane escape module. I could also incorporate a split basic/essential electric system for the house to be run 24/7 off the RV for reduced electric billing if I became industrious.
Am I crazy?

Not at all. Your search term is 'Vehicle-to-Grid'. See also 'microgrid'.

For the school bus, look to the storm chasers. Lay frame and drive screws into the ground.

Hurricanes: no actual experience avoiding ujless you count living in a non hurricane locale. Tornadoes: move a couple hundred feet to the side of the vortex ( with a thing in my head saying go to the left side) and you don't need stakes. Armor against heavy pokey things, but staking not required. Imho, the staking is only necessary if you want to be really near the funnel point.

Thanks guys.
But I need to clarify, I have lived in Florida since 1955, went thru a number of hurricanes way before building codes were even thought of being upgraded. Hurricanes Donna and my last was Cleo in 1964 was it for me. I evacuate, period.
I will NEVER experience a hurricane again. I will run like a scared rabbit every time, and read afterwards all the reports of those who did after the storm robustly claim: "Never again, Didn't think it will hit us, It was so loud for hours, What am I going to do, Thought I could ride it out, All our food is spoiled, We have no electric, etc".
As long as the hurricane doesn't travel faster than 60mph, My Bus/RV will outrun it, so no hardening/staking is needed for me, and I leave before everyone else decides to leave.

I have know two people that evacuated only to put themselves in the direct path. As you say "I leave before everyone else decides to leave" this is the only way to do it. Before the traffic and refueling become a problem and far enough that the associated weather will not be a problem.

Even I like the idea, and I never like putting solar on a vehicle. An RV is a different use case though, so solar can make sense, especially in a sunny place. Sounds like a fun project.

There are a number of situations that present a bug-out-else-hunker-down choice. When I worked for Oregon Dome there was a newspaper picture on the wall of a Texas town that looked like an unmade bed, with one white dome standing untouched in the middle.

That's why over a school bus I'd prefer my own motor home shell.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...07-7-35-02.png

Of course, since I can only dream, a semisubmersible house boat sounds like the best choice.

Wouldn't that be turning [locally] upwind? Also:

Being in Florida for many decades, and dozens and dozens of hurricanes, the "leave before others..." has not always been possible for me for numerous reasons. However, whenever you leave, still leave IMO. A couple of times I swear I could see the storm in my rearview mirror (IRMA):eek: of course there is no gas, food or hotels available, but at that last minute there is actually very little traffic and no police, and if you break down for any reason you are completely on your own and you must be prepared.

My parent's built a house on the Oregon coast in 1980. It was designed such that when the wind was blowing 100MPH, the only sound was the rain hitting the windowpanes. It was like a Mercedes-Benz at 100MPH.

180MPH winds sound achievable to me, airplanes fly faster than that. Maybe not with cedar shingles, but only because of airborne debris. Today I'd go with hexagonal concrete tiles.

I'd want noise cancellation in the home stereo, though. :)

Sounds totally reasonable to me. I'd also consider something similar.

I've wondered why noise cancellation isn't standard equipment in every car. All cars these days have speakers and a microphone and a computer, so they've got everything you need to cancel a bit of that noise. Save a bit on acoustic treatments in software.

Wouldn't one of hurdles for noise canceling inside the car be the inadvertent canceling/diminishing of say a siren, burglar alarm, a mom screaming for its child not walk behind your backing car, a motorcycle nearby, etc, and all the legal liabilities therein?

One word: Bentley.

Yes you cant hear stuff, but in theory you don't need to if you're operating at deliberate haste. Being late for work makes you shortcut a lot of carefullness which is where the accidents happen.

I see red/blue/yellow/ white flashing lights long before I hear the vehicle

There are some hospitals near my apartment, so I occasionally see vehicles which are "obviously" involved with some emergency even when there are no flashing lights or sirens. Once in a while, hearing the way the driver hits the horn, or how the engine is revved the hell out of, may give some clues too.

Sounds completely sane to me. Similar to what I'm doing with an ambulance conversion but I'm looking to live it in full time. If you are looking at adding 2800 watts of solar you are going to need to move up residential solar components instead of 12V RV and campervan stuff. (Current just gets WAY to high at 12V)

I'm going with 1800 watts of solar and 10 kWh of LFP battery at 48V.

Yes, I'm on the same page at 48V which I have already decided, but if I had to do over, I would go even higher.

The hardest part with lower voltages would be to find suitable appliances, without having to get inverters or a gas stove.

My solution everything not part of vehicle operation will connect to ithe 48V inverters. I likely will have a small independent backup inverter connected to the vehicle 12V system.

is this a financial decision or a practical engineering one? Dc to Ac then back to Dc conversions are really lossy and expensive for all the pieces parts involved. Suppose you could build your own supercap voltage multiplier and PWM stepdowns, but all the voltage multiplier circuitry I have experienced is not that high currents and really fussy about parameters.

How would you ensure the backup inverter wouldn't drain the battery enough to prevent the engine from starting when required?

The 12V inverter in my application would only be for backup of very rare use, in order to reduce the outcome you note above. It's mainly to back up independently the 48V 2800W solar system in case it ever when offline for whatever reason.

With a latching relay, but I'm not prepared to explain how.

Maybe, but on this one item, the solution KISS is my motto.:D

I'm doing something similar but I already have a 12V setup because I'm starting with an ambulance. There is a charger for shore power and a full sine wave invertor that powered the medical equipment.

The sticking point for me was how would I charge the 12V vehicle system from the 48V house batteries. There are 48V to 12V DC - DC inverters but they cost quite a bit and I'm not keen on finding room for even more hardware and cabling. I'm planning on just using a standard 120V to 12V battery charger plugged into the house system. Yes it is very inefficient but I already have on and I'm running a very oversized 48V system.

I'm also a fan of K.I.S.S.

Considering how high usually are the electrical loads on ambulances, it's quite surprising a 24 volt setup similar to most military vehicles and medium-duty commercial trucks is not implemented as standard.

The problem is the cost of transition - same as with light duty vehicles. The bulk of automotive electronics are 12V so they are cheaper than low volume 24V or 48V systems.

While some MD commercial trucks in the USA have 24V battery systems they are still running 12V electronics. Only the charging / starting loop are 24V. For the cab and chassis components the voltage is stepped down to 12V - again to save cost.

Sure some devices such as lighting, "infotainment" and other accessories to which 12V is mainstream would remain that way, but for other high-intensity electrical loads it seems justifiable to switch to 24V. Yet with so many new vehicles featuring a 48V MHEV setup it's more likely that 48V will become more relevant than 24V soon.

I covered a lot of this hassle discussed here in another thread, that mostly related to the project in this thread.
Fla statue 316.515.3a states among other things a straight truck is limited to extreme length of 40' excluding safety and energy conservation devices approved by the department.
Elsewhere statues state a 2 axle RV's length is controlled by Statue 316.515.3a.
Elsewhere, "department" is defined as FLHSMV, Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
So many weeks ago I began my quest to find out what exactly defined/determined what was an "energy conservation device approved by the department".

1. First stop was a call to the county's DMV, no clue but suggested I speak with county department manager.
2. County DMV manager had no clue, suggested I call Tallahassee FLHSMV.
3. Calling Tallahassee, after on hold for one hour, and requesting first my DL or VIN number they answered and had no clue what the answer was, suggested I call Regional FLHSMV DOT office in Palmetto Fla, that does "inspections", whatever that means.
4, I called Pakmetto 10:00am, waited for hour, the very polite lady did not have a clue, but took my name number and my question and said someone would call me back regarding the matter. I asked would that likely be today, she said yes, and definitely by tomorrow.
5. After no call back, I emailed my question and request for assistance to Molly Best, Director of Communications for FLHS MV in Tallahassee,
4 weeks later still no reply
6. Three weeks ago, I sent a certified letter FLHSMV in Tallahassee, repeating my requests. No reply as of today
7. Today I visited the Ft Meyers Regional FLHSMV-Florida Highway Patrol Office (since likely they would be the citing agency on the side road) and requested the opportunity to speak directly with a "Commercial Vehicles" (DOT) patrol officer.

The conversation was rather strained and unfruitful. The officer stated among other things, after first calling a number of people for over 1/2 hour to research my question, she stated:
She has been trooper for over 20 years, straight trucks do not get "energy conservation devices", only semi do, why would I want to install one, they don't save any gas on a straight truck, when I said I disagreed, she said it was a "fact", also stated I was not listening to her because she was a women, she did attempt to educate me as to what an energy conservation device was (which was never the issue), and was rather condescending considering the officers other unsupported statements, and that "energy devices" are only approved by the Department if the original Chassis manufacturer approves them, which I questioned how does that work, because in most cases, the trucks/chassis are built and shipped unfinished without any bodies, to be installed by other vendors?

The officer said it doesn't matter, must be an original chassis manufacturer, which I find preposterous. I asked her if this requirement is retroactive, and what happens if it's on a truck/trailer say from 80's, the officer said it might be grandfathered in in some cases, but she did know which ones.

The system in Florida is clueless.

Maybe it's time for some malicious compliance?
Unbelievable House Truck Transforms Into Fantasy Castle

Energy conservation devices are aerodynamic aids. They work on straight trucks as well as trailers.

https://s18391.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...4234801966.jpg

How long is it now?

We totally agree, but the FHP CMV trooper does not, but the question remains, what exactly defines "approved", that allows their use, that is still rather unanswered.

My recent takeaway with this Trooper, she could not conceive she did not know the answer, could not admit it, and fed me a line of BS just to get me to go away instead facing her potential shortcoming on this matter. She was in good company so far it appears. Her technical understanding was vividly exposed by her stating energy devices save no gas on a straight truck and when I mentioned that I disagreed, her response that is a "fact", almost caused me to burst into laughter.
That was caused by my personal experience in 1974 of my first custom building a front wind deflector on my 22' Box International straight truck that increased my mileage from 5.6 to 7.4 MPG much to my amazement during the first gas crisis. I have in the decades since then built/installed 6? more all with significant mpg improvements.

Update: as of 4-14-20 : "Industry supplier Stemco has discontinued production of its TrailerTail product, which helped pioneer improved aerodynamics at the rear of the trailer."

40' currently

I'm wanting to build a rear approx 48" composite liftable and single horizontal hinged composite tapered hollow box tail ( would serve as a awning in lifted position) and a front horizontal 12"? roof mount curved wind vane, making vehicle approx 45' long with the addition of these two energy saving devices.

No doubt the trooper doesn't know what she is talking about - which is not uncommon. As you said, truck manufacturers do not make the cargo boxes or other bodies so no truck manufacturer is going to certify an aero tail.

I don't think you will have issues with a commercially purchased tail. They are quite common and in almost all cases put the vehicle over the legal length limit.


I do think you might have trouble with a homemade tail - if it looks to be homemade or very different from the commercially available options. In that case there is no doubt that the device was not approved for sale or use on public roads.

Modern problems ==> Modern solutions

journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/16878132221087852
https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4..._FP1EaHbJnONVY
www.linkedin.com/pulse/plasma-actuators-extremely-complex-physics-help-semi-pranay-bajjuri

Beware the anarcho-tyranny; They will want to ticket you just like you'd put blue dots in your tail lights.

Would you expect a bureaucrat to actually have any clue, or care enough to learn about it?

Your are preaching to the choir on that thought.

I would have thought the last bastion of logic on the matter would be the actual officer writing the ticket on the side of the road for having an overlength vehicle because of unapproved by the "department" energy conservation devices.
It sounds like this can be only resolved in a courtroom after a citation, because it might be easy to prove the "department" has never approved prior a single device, even with literally thousands in use daily, and has never produced anything written for public review on the matter, and the statue is vague in reality and unenforceable in the least.

But then, there is, "you can't beat city hall".:D

We don't live in rational society. All the citations I should have had dismissed were ruled against me, and some of the ones I shouldn't have had dismissed were ruled in my favor.

I don't have recent experience though. There is such a thing as judges and prosecutors undermining the effort of police to the detriment of society and the criminals/addicts themselves. Some people live their best lives in confinement.

The dysfunctionality comes when generally law abiding citizens are shaken down for their loose cash, while the law dismissing individuals are given a pass. You'll get a citation for doing 5 over the limit, but the guy that wants to build a house and poop in the street is not held to account.

THAT is a sign of a civilization in decline. Anyone voting for chaos or otherwise supporting it deserves the society they get.

Oxford comma?

I accept punctuation and grammar corrections in quotation. My sense is the point was understood clearly, and nobody will comment because they are either blue-pilled, or black-pilled.

We live in a gutless society where nobody will say anything unless it's to apologize for terrorist barbarism.