TERS (thermal energy recovery system)
 

Well, I was recently reading an f1technical.com article about TERS introduction into the upcoming season, and that got me thinking... How would this work? I've been wracking my brain as to how you can use heat to make energy, ie bi-metallic thermal generators, and that's really all I'm coming up with. OPEN DISCUSSION: how else can you accomplish this? Is there a practical ecomodding(DIY) approach you've been pondering? Lets flesh this out a bit.

From what I have read, peltiers would work, but they would be terribly cost inefficient.

F1 TERS for 2014 is now called a MGHU Motor Generator Heat Unit.

Its using a generator type unit that's located at the center cartridge of the turbo. Being a generator it can make electricity or spin the turbo's shaft to reduce turbo lag.

Garret Honeywell came up with back in the 90's and its evolved from there.

The max output the MGUH can put out by 2014 rules is 120 kW or 160 HP.

There is rummer that they are at 80 kW right now and growing.:thumbup:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse3b70642.jpg

Not to many F1 fans on here???

This is a pic during a pre-gp grid walk by Italian tv technical commentator ing.Giancarlo Bruno, showing a the Magneti Marelli MGU-H for 2014 (presumably an early development version): 120kW output:eek:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps4e16614c.jpg

:O that's awesome :D I love f1, especially since they're getting greener :]

Me too!!! I can't wait for next year!!!

I love the new fuel/power rules.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.

I think this is going to be a major game changer in fuel efficiency's and performance.

New down sized 1.6L V6 Direct Injected Petrol up to 500bar. Turbocharged with MGUH units that can supply up to 120kW of power that's link to the drive-train through the MGUK unit.

Oh what fun:thumbup:

And Honda comes back in 2015!! :D AND KIMI's AT FERARRI AGAIN!

What part of Idaho you from pgfpro? I lived in ririe years ago, just north of IF

I can't wait to see what Honda brings in 2015:cool:

I live in Coeur d' Alene ID about 30 miles east of Spokane WA.

I'm on F1 Technical a lot. I go by the same name pgfpro.

Rad, I went to a jazz festival a while back at the college up there. I'm on f1tech pretty often, and reddit/formula1 may times a day lol. Who's your driver?

Coeur d' Alene has some great Jazz spots.:)

Not to sure what the other site your talking about? I will have to check it out.

Driver wise I'm more into the engineering that is involved with these race cars. I would probably have to go with Kimi Raikkonen though as one of my favs. Hes very aggressive and seems to know how to keep the tire's from degradation.

I like Vettel also but I'm getting tired of seeing Red Bull dominating. I wonder who Honda will pick up???

Some more good F1 info.

Link
2014 engines: Heat management - F1technical.net

That was nothing to do with fuel saving; as of 2012 and 2013 the emphasis is on downforce. The point is that all Formula One teams will need to rethink their aero philosophy under the radically new conditions imposed by the revolutionary 2014 formula. However, equally important will be how they integrate that with the work of their engine supplier (or ‘Power Unit supplier’ as we need to call them from now on). As we shall see, there will be a baffling number of options for operating the new-generation Power Units, each with different implications in terms of overall car aero. The 2014 Power Unit won’t be simply a bolt-in item; more than ever it will be part of a complex juggling act determining overall car performance.

At the heart of the 2014 Power Unit will be a combination of internal combustion (IC) engine and electric motor, the latter powered primarily by energy captured from the exhaust stream of the former.

That stream will power a turbine that both supercharges the engine and drives a motor/generator unit (the ‘MGU-H’), which is permitted to supply electrical energy direct (and in quantities unlimited by regulation) to an electric motor/generator unit (the ‘MGU-K’) coupled directly to the crankshaft of the IC engine.

With its maximum crankshaft speed capped at 15,000 rpm but with plenum pressure unlimited, the direct-injected 1.6 litre V6 turbo is expected to produce in the region of 600 bhp, given a mandated fuel flow limit of 100 kg/h. To that is added a stipulation of 100 kg maximum per race. With races typically being 305 km then, going back to our Group C example, that amounts to 328 kg, or about 460 litres per 1000 km. Group C1 engines produced in the region of 750 bhp; pro rata that is 575 bhp given 460 rather than 600 litres per 1000 km. A quarter of a century on, we would indeed expect these new engines to be a little more efficient.

To the IC output the MGU-K will add (by regulation) a maximum of 161 bhp (120 kW). Its ability to create what is in effect (for the sake of argument) a 761 bhp engine will be limited by the amount of energy the MGU-H can harvest, supplemented by the amount of energy the MGU-K can itself harvest by acting as a generator under braking. That recovered kinetic energy, up to a maximum permitted 2 MJ per lap, will primarily be stored in an energy store (ES), which will normally be a lithium ion battery. Alternatively it can be fed to the MGU-H as a means of driving the compressor.

I'm into the engineering most as well, being a mechanical engineering student it lets me nerd out on awesome :D and I'm a kimi guy too, being a college kids, he goes FAST and parties hard lol

Who is taking Mark Webber's seat at Red Bull; if Kimi is going Ferrari? Daniel Ricardo?

I totally understand the Nerd Out part. lol These new 2014 power units are going to be awesome!!! Hybrids from Hell:cool:

I thought it was Daniel Ricardo also???

Driver's jumping around like a bunch of fleas. lol

Yup it's richardo :]

So, who is leaving Ferrari? Massa or Alonso?

Massa is leaving Ferrari.

While 2014 looks very exciting for F1 as far as technology goes, the critics of the new rules say that they will turn F1 into endurance style (AKA boring) racing, where teams are merely trying to make it to the end on the fuel they have without taking any risks. Reminds me of the Monaco race every year where everyone sand bags. Let's hope the critics are wrong....

not really applicable for f1 but for diy a sterling cycle engine run from waste heat could perhaps power alt. ac. ps. etc.

Alain Prost: F1 2014 engine reliability problems inevitable - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Alain Prost: F1 2014 engine reliability problems inevitable
By Glenn Freeman and Edd Straw Monday, September 30th 2013, 09:54 GMT

Alain Prost F1

Alain Prost believes all three engine manufacturers will suffer from unreliability at the start of the 2014 Formula 1 season, when the new 1.6-litre turbocharged V6 regulations are introduced.

The four-times world champion expects Renault, for which he is an ambassador, Mercedes and Ferrari all to hit reliability problems because of the demands of the new technology.

But it will not be until pre-season testing starts in late January that the extent of the problems, if any, manifest themselves.

"I can tell you, for sure we are going to have some reliability problems, in the beginning especially," Prost told AUTOSPORT.

"We will see if it is only in private testing in the winter, but nobody knows at the moment.

"In a way it's good because we are at the beginning with this technology, like we had with the turbos [in the 1970s and 80s].

"We all need to accept that sometimes it is going to be a problem.

"Reliability is always an issue. It's an issue because you have the engine and the turbo, but there are electrical parts, wires, different systems.

"Even if everything is OK, you then have the integration with the car and different aspects like temperature and vibration."

Prost insists it is important for F1 and the fans to accept the early teething problems.

He believes that, in the long-term, the fans will find the performance variations between the various engines an interesting storyline, which will also boost the profile of the manufacturers.

F1 2013

"We all need to accept that sometimes it is going to be a problem," said Prost.

"The public will understand it is a new technology and it is not reliable, but slowly they will see that you get the performance, the reliability, the fuel consumption.

"It's very good for the automobile industry and the three, or maybe four [when Honda joins in 2015] constructors.

"I remember the way we were in the 80s when Renault didn't have a good image and then F1 helped them very much."

Although he does not expect reliability to be perfect at first, Prost underlined that Renault is on target with work on its new engine.

While Renault has a clear idea of the overall performance of its engine thanks to dyno work, he expects performance to continue to improve.

"Everything is on target, everything is OK," said Prost.

"Everybody is very cautious about what they do and what they say because it is a completely new technology.

"Performance, more or less, we are going to know where we are so it is going to make a progression slowly."

I just hope the fans will understand this, and it will take awhile to work out all the bugs? This new technology will be well worth it though.

Many things have been talked about with heat recovery, no decent results yet though.
Options considered are:
1 / TEG's, Seebeck effect, the reverse to Peltier and the two types of cells are not interchangable, Seebeck creates a current through a temperature differential, while Peltiers create a temp differential when a current is supplied, either way low efficiency.
2 / Sterling engines, as mentioned, but very bulky for power supplied.
3 / Steam generation for steam turbine/engine, again heavy and bulky
4 / Heat ejection in rear to energise air in rear void, idea is if you increase temp, you increase pressure and reduce drag, this is my favorite at the moment, but how to get the heat out there?

The F1 thing is great but they're already anticipating teething issues with Billions spent, so unlikely ecomodders can do it with $50.