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-   -   Testing & Reviewing a SGe (comparing ScanGauge 2 vs. ScanGauge E) (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/testing-reviewing-sge-comparing-scangauge-2-vs-scangauge-18513.html)

Daox 08-15-2011 11:30 AM

Testing & Reviewing a SGe (comparing ScanGauge 2 vs. ScanGauge E)
 
http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE006.JPG

Over the weekend I installed a SGe on my Prius which I'm driving daily now. Darin and Ben asked me to do a review on it for the blog. I have it hooked up along with the SGII, so I have both running. I'll be sharing what I learn about it and giving feedback on the pros and cons of the SGe vs SGII. I'll get pictures up this afternoon when I get home.

If you have any specific questions about the SGe or anything you'd like me to try just let me know.

drv2die 08-15-2011 05:07 PM

what are the differences between the two? only the amount of data displayed or recorded? or just the price? i need one just need to know which one is better sg2 sge or ug. if i buy from em does it support the site instead of buying from ebay.

Daox 08-16-2011 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drv2die (Post 256292)
what are the differences between the two? only the amount of data displayed or recorded? or just the price? i need one just need to know which one is better sg2 sge or ug. if i buy from em does it support the site instead of buying from ebay.

I'll be going through all the differences throughout this week or so as I learn more and use the SGe more. There is more to it than just 2 less gauges displayed on the screen. They've added features to the SGe that the SGII doesn't have and have done some work with it to make fact that it only displays 2 gauges at a time not so bad.

If you buy from EM, it does support the site.

MetroMPG 08-16-2011 01:19 PM

(And, psst, yes you support the site when you buy one off EcoModder: EcoModder Store: Get Stuff, Support EcoModder - EcoModder.com )

Daox 08-16-2011 01:26 PM

I got the first batch of pictures together.

This is what the package contains. You get:
  • ScanGauge E
  • OBDII cable
  • Velcro strips with adhesive backing (2)
  • Quick start guide
  • User manual

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE001.JPG




The first thing that I noticed with the SGe was that it has only one port to connect the OBDII cable to. This port is on the back side of the gauge.

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE002.JPG




This is an image of the back side of a SGII. You can see it has a plug on the back side and also on the right side of the gauge. This does allow a bit more flexibility when choosing where to mount the gauge.

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE003.JPG




Next up, I got a nice compairison shot of the two gauges next to each other. While the SGe is smaller, its not a TON smaller than the SGII.

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE006.JPG




I'll be using the SGe in my 04 Prius. I already have a SGII in the car an will be linking the SGe to the SGII so I can use both at the same time. This is done by using the 2nd port on the SGII and using a ethernet cable to connect up to the SGE. Super nerd instrumentation! :)

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE005.JPG




So, this is how I have the gauges setup in the car currently. Despite the dark look of the SGII (which I've customized the display color and brightness), its still quite easy to see. The SGe in these pictures is just set to the default color/brightness. Its actually a little annoying bright when its dark out. I recommend changing it.

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE007.JPG

MetroMPG 08-16-2011 01:34 PM

On the SGe, what's the black box on the left of the line that shows your ignition timing?

http://tercelreference.com/downloads/SGE006.JPG

I'm guessing it's a graphical display?

PaleMelanesian 08-16-2011 01:51 PM

Yes, that's a bar graph. I'm not sure if it changes when you switch gauges. Sitting still means "0 mpg" so it's pegged at the bottom. Here's what it looks like with P&G.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/...angauges-2.jpg

MetroMPG 08-16-2011 02:17 PM

Ah - I assumed it was a graphical representation of the gauge currently displayed on the right side (IGN in that case).

(Neat P&G graph, by the way!)

PaleMelanesian 08-16-2011 02:23 PM

Yeah, I don't know if it changes to reflect the gauges or if it's always mpg.

Daox 08-16-2011 02:34 PM

The graph always tracks MPG. However, the scale of the graph, or how it displays is configurable. By default, the graph's zero (halfway) shows as your trip average. Therefore you know if you're doing better or worse than your current average. This is a pretty nice setup IMO. However, you can also set the graph's zero point to a set MPG. They call this "GOAL", and you can manually set whatever MPG you want as your zero point (0-255). With GOAL you can see if you are hitting the MPG you want or not. You could even set GOAL to the EPA rating of the car to see how good you're doing compared to it. Or, you could set it to your 90 day average to see if you're improving upon it.

PaleMelanesian 08-16-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 256503)
You could even set GOAL to the EPA rating of the car to see how good you're doing compared to it.

A solid black bar above the line? :p

Daox 08-16-2011 02:37 PM

Haha, some might need to set it higher. :) For instance, you could set it to your 90 day average.

Daox 08-16-2011 02:40 PM

I should also add that you can change the duration each bar represents. By default, the bars change quite quickly. You see a new bar about every 9 seconds. There are 10 bars total, so you see about 1.5 minutes of history. This is great for short sections of your commute where you want to try to improve upon it. However, you can also extend the time period between bars so that you don't get so many peaks and valleys and it shows a more averaged out reading.

PaleMelanesian 08-16-2011 02:41 PM

Oh, that's neat you can change the timing.

When I did that picture, I quickly got it set up for 6 gauges with the -II, then got to the business of driving. I didn't explore it like you're doing.

Daox 08-16-2011 02:43 PM

Yeah, I kind of wish they had a mpg/distance option. You could compare EXACT segments of your daily commute without worrying about waiting for traffic, lights, drivers pulling out in front of you, etc.

Most OEM gauges are also mpg/time too though. I suppose MPG/distance is hard to set a generic gauge to.

Daox 08-17-2011 12:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Today I'd like to share about the gauge setup. As we know, the SGe only displays 2 gauges at a time versus the SGII's 4 gauges. To help make this more managable, linear logic has done a kind of neat trick with the gauge setup. You can essentially scroll through gauge sets with the buttons on the left. There are three default (not customizable) gauge sets, and two customizable sets. The default gauge sets show instant and trip MPG, the next shows trip CO2 emissions and today's CO2, and the third shows trip fuel cost and today's fuel cost. Other than those three default gauge sets, you can make your own two custom gauge sets like you do with the SGII. The buttons on the right cycle through the available gauges just as normal.

Through out all the screens you still retain the MPG graph on the left. So, even if you don't have MPG or AVG on the screen you're still getting feedback on your mileage. Also, as I explained before, the graph can show your trip average as the zero point (this is default), or you can set the zero point of the graph to a specific MPG and see if you're getting above or below that MPG. It could be set to the EPA rating for your car, or your 90 day average, or whatever you want. You can also change the time duration each bar represents. I'll be testing the adjustment since the manual doens't really state how far its adjustable.

The image below explains things fairly well (its out of the manual).

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1313599585

MetroMPG 08-17-2011 02:51 PM

That's a neat function!

I could be somewhat less lazy and just read the manual myself, but I like this "tune in next time... for more info" vibe. :D

gone-ot 08-17-2011 04:57 PM

...yeah, but reading "...someone ELSE's comments..." (for me at least) are tantamount to getting a proverbial *second opinion* on what the Instructions are really saying!

PaleMelanesian 08-18-2011 09:18 AM

Excellent! Both the features and your explanation of how they work. Thanks!

MetroMPG 08-18-2011 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 256761)
...yeah, but reading "...someone ELSE's comments..." (for me at least) are tantamount to getting a proverbial *second opinion* on what the Instructions are really saying!

Luckily, the user manuals are available for anyone to preview from Linear Logic:

User Manuals : Linear Logic - Home of the ScanGauge

mcrews 08-18-2011 12:13 PM

update your older scangauge!!!!!
 
There ia a group buy update reduced from 25 to $18

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...der-18535.html

Daox 08-18-2011 01:43 PM

I just got in from testing the SGe's graph timing adjustment. As I said, the time duration each bar represents on the graph can be changed. Its not as easy as setting it to a sepecific time duration unfortunately. The setting is simply setting a number 1-8. 5 is the default and makes each bar represent about 9 seconds (1.5 minutes for the whole graph since there are 10 bars). When set to 1, each bar represents about 100 seconds (~16.5 minutes for the whole graph). When it is set to 8, each bar represents around 2 seconds of history (~20 seconds for the whole graph). So, there is a pretty wide amount of adjustment in there. I wouldn't mind seeing the band shifted toward longer amounts of time, but I guess I'm used to the Prius' 5 minute bars too.

Rokeby 08-18-2011 06:15 PM

Does the SG2e accept user-programmed X-Gauges?

NeilBlanchard 08-19-2011 07:06 PM

The SGe has the average MPG already programmed, which is the one X-Gauge I had to set up...

MetroMPG 08-19-2011 09:01 PM

Rokeby: no user-programmable x-gauge functionality on the SGe.

Daox 08-22-2011 11:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah, unfortunately the SGe does not have the x-gauge feature. For most I don't think this is a big deal, but for hybrid owners you can get some pretty handy gauges with the x-gauges.

Here is a chart off the linear logic site that shows the direct feature compairison between the SGII and SGe.

I also read through the latest SGII user manual to see what "performance features" they have now since this is a newer feature. It appears to offer a way to measure 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times, and 60-0 distances. I thought it might give us a way to log coast down tests, but it doesn't look like it will work for that. Perhaps one of the guys getting the firmware upgrade can verify that for us?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1314026478

Daox 08-22-2011 11:49 AM

Does anyone have any tests you'd like me to do?

plc1fp 08-22-2011 12:00 PM

Distance correction?
 
I seem to have a slight error in the distance value measured which throws off the MPG estimate. The readout of the fuel used is correct, but the overall mpg is too high by about 3 mpg. Are you aware of any way to adjust the distance, as I have not found anything in the users guide. Thanks.

Daox 08-22-2011 12:08 PM

Yes, both the SGII and SGe have distance correction built into them. This is done via the speed adjustment. The SG is probably calculating your speed a bit higher than actual causing it to think you've gone farther than you have.

gone-ot 08-22-2011 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 257560)
I also read through the latest SGII user manual to see what "performance features" they have now since this is a newer feature. It appears to offer a way to measure 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times, and 60-0 distances. I thought it might give us a way to log coast down tests, but it doesn't look like it will work for that. Perhaps one of the guys getting the firmware upgrade can verify that for us?

...maybe this (coast down time) would be a good "question" to present to Linear Logic as a possible "new" X-gauge?

Daox 08-23-2011 01:07 PM

Today I'd like to talk about the CO2 gauges they've added to the SGe. Its not anything real complex, but it is a feature specific to the SGe so I think its worth discussing. They have added two new gauges that calculate the CO2 emissions of your vehicle. The first one is "CO2" on the display, it shows how many pounds/kilograms of CO2 your car has put out on the current trip. The next one is "TCO", and it shows how many pounds/kilograms CO2 your car has put out for the entire day. In the trip meter section you can also see how many pounds/kilograms you've put out for the entire tank too.

I imagine this is some simple math going on in the SGe. According to the EPA, burning 1 gallon of gas puts out 19.4 lbs / 8.8 kgs of CO2. Diesel puts outs 22.2 lbs / 10.1 kgs per gallon. So, as the SGe keeps track of how many gallons you've burned it multiplies by these numbers based on if you have your fuel type set to gasoline or diesel.

gone-ot 08-23-2011 07:18 PM

...those numbers assume 'perfect' stoichiometric combustion, of course, which only occurs once the engine has gone into "closed-loop" operation.

...how "helpful" is the new moving-bar gauge for FE monitoring?

Daox 08-23-2011 11:09 PM

Well, the CO2 emissions should be just as accurate as the MPG readout and that can be very accurate.

The graph is helpful. I'd recommend setting it for the longest timer interval. That way you can have more similar bars each day on your daily commute. My daily commute is just under 15 minutes, so the entire graph can represent my commute and I can see exactly where I'm getting good or bad mileage. I've gotten used to seeing how the graph normally looks and I can see where I've done better or worse for that trip.

On the other hand, if you set it for relatively short intervals it can be quite helpful for driving with load as it shows above/below average or the set goal mileage. However, you can also use the instant/trip average to do this too,. The advantage of the SGe is it shows you the history.

gone-ot 08-24-2011 10:31 AM

...I STILL think they need to incorporate something to enable "saving" of commute data, either SD memory chip or USB thumb-drive...even if it's just something that plugs into the un-used RJ-phone-jack on the SGII.

Daox 08-24-2011 10:48 AM

Haha, yeah I think that ones been on people's wish list for quite a while. I think you can do that with the ELM devices though? They aren't too expensive.

http://www.obdtester.com/elm-usb

MetroMPG 08-24-2011 10:53 AM

Good point, worth repeating (exporting the data).

Daox 08-26-2011 11:57 AM

I'd like to finish off this review with a breif summary. I've enjoyed testing the SGe and think its a great product. The graph is definitely a nice to have and does help you analyse your driving. I have also really grown to love the gauge sets. I wish the SGII had the same thing now. Its so nice to be able to page through the sets of gauges that you can't fit all on one screen. I'm slightly annoyed when I have to page through the 20 or so individual gauges just to get to what I want with my SGII now.

I don't think the SGe it is for everyone, but there are those who it'll be a very good fit for. Amongst those people would be people looking to save money. You get almost all the features of the SGII, but it only costs 2/3rds as much ($50 savings). That makes the payback much quicker. IMO the SGII payed for itself quite fast. That makes the SGe is a no brainer if you're looking to save money. The other group of people I'd suggest this to would be the more casual ecodrivers out there. Its a nice gauge, gives lots of info and will help increase your mileage. There isn't too much to look at on the screen, its smaller and fits in nooks a bit easier.

That all being said, I wouldn't recommend the SGe to another group of people. Those people include the hardcore hypermilers. These guys love info and will use every bit they can get their hands on to increase their mileage. That means needing the 4 gauges up all the time to optimize driving. I also wouldn't necessarily recommend the SGe to hybrid owners. The loss of the x-gauges is a big price to pay for hybrid owners who can gain a lot of functionality through the x-gauges.

So, that is that. I do think that most of the users here would be more than happy with the SGe vs SGII and have a bit more money in their pocket.

If anyone has any questions or would like me to try anything out I'd be happy to give it a shot.

gone-ot 08-26-2011 03:45 PM

...it would be interesting if *ALL* the X-Gauge functions could be saved/stored in the same SD chip or USB thumbdrive that would be used to hold exported data.

captaintobs 10-07-2011 11:33 AM

Hi. I got the scangauge e and noticed that the tank to empty gauge always resets on startup. So even if I've driven 6 gallons on my 17 gallon tank, the tank to empty gauge will always start at 17. I contacted linear logic and they told me that this is a known issue. I'm sending my e back and getting a ii.

Just thought I should let people know.

evric 03-06-2018 06:10 PM

One small point... Does the ScanGauge - E have an option for showing Litres Per 100Km?
For those in Australia and other parts of the world.


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