Toyota GT86/Scion FRS 4dr sedan hybrid, maybe wagon too!
 

While I just heard toyota is working on my dream car, maybe....

Scion FR-S Sedan in Toyota's Pipeline - Motor Trend

About half way down it says that the rear drive FRS will get a hybrid system, "In addition to the base model's Subaru-sourced 200hp 2.0 litre boxer powertrain, the as-yet unnamed-sedan will also offer a next-generation hybrid system. Strategically differentiated from the current THS hybrid system, the new 'Hybrid R' sports hybrid system will incorporate a one-motor setup that generates between 250-270hp while achieving 10-15% better fuel economy."

If they put that together with a shooting brake wagon that would be a really sweet car!

Well, I think the idea of a sporty hybrid sounds neat.

If the ICE already puts out 200hp, then the E-motor would have to produce the extra 50-70hp to achieve the performance figures mentioned in the article. It will be interesting to see what develops, but it's a long way out.

Why even call it an FR-S? A sedan hybrid does not live up to what the FR-S was meant to be. It would be like adding back seats to a Viper and giving it a turbocharged V6. Makes me sick.

Sounds fun. I'll believe it when I see it though.

Since it's gonna be another RWD offer I'm not unfavorable to that, altough I'd still rather get something Diesel-powered instead of hybrid.

The hybrid is fine, they're not going to downgrade the engine power so it'll be faster than before, but I don't understand the sedan part. Toyota can't sell that sedan globally, they already have the Lexus IS platform for RWD sedans. If it's still a Subaru chassis, I don't think people would want a RWD Subaru sedan.

If this platform is going to remain less expensive than the Lexus, and is going to have the advantages from the Subaru Boxer engine, it might still have strong sales arguments.

That would be even worse. The point here is that Toyota and many other car companies today chose to ruin the heritage and tradition of some car brands simply to sell a few thousand more cars.

The FR-S, or Toyota 86, is the spiritual successor to the AE86. It also has ties with the 2000GT and 800. This is a long and proud line of front engine, RWD, sport coupes. For Toyota today, it represents a major shift back to a traditional sports car.

My whole point is to not attach 4 doors, a diesel engine, or a hybrid system to a name that represents such a great history for sports cars. The only reason they are doing this is because a 4 door will sell better than a coupe in today's market. For the people that respect what the Toyota 86 represents, it's shameful.

There is no shame in progress, or in profits.

Even the early Camry was developed from a light compact RWD platform (from some older Celica), so as long as Toyota doesn't kill the GT86/FRS it doesn't sound that bad.

Uh, I called it the "Lexus IS" platform, but it's sold under the Toyota brand in other parts of the world, esp. Asia.

There's no problem with a hybrid system. Think of it as a mini torque boost at the bottom end, along with a super efficient alternator. Doesn't affect the driving experience.

Hmmm. You're "master Eco-modder" status makes everything you said here sound like an idiocy. If you truly cared about the "essence" of some sports car, you would drive a miata, or an 86, and you wouldn't be on a forum specifically tailored to people pushing economy to the furthest possible consumer limits. Toyota sees that economy is quickly becoming the name of the game. Thus why the supra is probably coming back (based on Toyota renewing the supra trademark last year, with the copyright only lasting till 2015) and the fact that they need a omething to compete with the new HYBRID NSX. If you want to get angry about a cars lineage being soiled, think about that for a second. A hybrid NSX. The poor mans super car getting the underpinnings of something much less... super.

Selling cars is NOT about upholding the essence of something so distant. More cars are sold in the name of PROgression, rather than REgression.

When they say "GT86/FRS/BRZ" they are talking about the ZN6 platform. They are using the model name as a sort of brand. Which was Tada-san's intended goal from the beginning. In all likelihood, it will be named similar enough but differentiated.

Myself, I am not opposed to the RWD sedan idea. I'm more interested in whether they make the hatch or not. My opinion on making it a hybrid will depend on how the hybrid system is implemented. I can think of a number of ways this could end in failure or disgrace, such as dropping the MT. They need to maintain the Sports car image without neutering it for a sedan.

The convertible was put on hold but I believe the sedan or the shooting brake style hatchback has a chance. I have heard anything about a proper wagon, unless you just mean a 5 door hatch.:confused:

I also heard years ago that they were working on a rwd manual transmission "halo" car for the prius line up. So there is a chance it might not wear the FR-S/GT86 name.

The Prius actually has some good aerodynamics. BTW there was a racing version presented recently in Japan...

Great aerodynamics that is great for performance use and going fast, but to those not in the know (ie most people who buy cars) the prius shape has now been associated with effeciency and slowness. For a halo car to re-establish the brand image it needs to break with the wedge shape.

Even the talks about the genIV that is coming in about a year say the shape is going to be less wedge like.

The racing version was also a hatch, even though Hot Hatches have been growing in popularity lately in North America, and it was awd, a rwd sedan is a much better halo car and can probably be built and sold at a higher profit.

I certainly would not buy a Prius that had a higher Cd than the previous model. It is right that form should follow function.

Unfortunately in a lot of people's eyes, non-aerodynamic shapes are beautiful. Look at the new Z4, the tail keeps getting shorter and the hood keeps getting longer. I saw someone complain that the Porsche 981 has a taller tail than the 987 (which had horrible aerodynamics). Or SUV buyers, they want sharp edges and box shapes that don't taper. The taller the better.

If car companies don't care about honoring their past, why do they create spiritual successors to their famous cars? It is important. You might not care, but there are those that do. And for people like me it's a shame to see marketing departments soil a name that represents a significant part of the companies history. Challenger, Camaro, Mustang, etc. These are all cars that stick to what the name represents. They have a loyal following of people that care about what those names mean.

Honda CRZ and Honda NSX are examples of progression in a car. In the 1990's the NSX was advanced with an aluminum body, variable valve timing, and handling unlike any production car at that time. The new NSX is going after the same thing. Technology that hasn't been seen before in a super car that is made to be daily driven. The CRZ is much different from the CRX, but anyone can see how Honda tried to recreate a CRX for modern times, with efficiency and fun in mind. They chose not to use the CRX name, but their intentions are clear.

What is not progression is taking a car Toyota intended to be a spiritual successor the the AE86, adding a couple doors and new power train. Why even call it an 86 or FR-S? When you make those changes it's a different car. I'm not saying that it would be a bad car, I'm questioning why it needs the 86 name. Call it a new name. If names don't mean anything, why use something that represents the past? If it's suppose to be progression, why not find a new name to represent the change?

I'm not going to guess how old you are, but trust me when I say that things from your past represent a lot of things. You'll continue to appreciate the movies, music, cars, and things you had when you were young as you get older. To the younger generation it seems silly, but only you know what it represents. It would be like if Metallica started selling rap albums instead of rock. Names and history have meaning, and it isn't always appropriate to change things around.

Aerodynamics don't define how beautiful a vehicle can be. I have seen ugly vehicles in different shapes...

I agree with a lot of what you said. If you read about the CRZ Honda says they considered CRX but didn't feel it was appropriate. What I read between the lines is that they were remaking the CRX HF and didn't want to call it a CRX as it might alliente/disappoint those who want/expect a CRX SI. However the AE86 isn't really a name from the past. It's a chasis code. The car was a corolla, and it shared it's name and it's similar design with a four door sedan. Toyota hasn't put the scion FR-S on the streets of north america to get people from the past who grew up with corolla sports cars. Toyota/Subaru has even said that the Subaru is given options like nav and leather because they want the older more premium buyer and toyota wants the younger demographic. The AE86 is known by that name, and popular and in demand because of games like Grand Turismo and the drifting crowd. I think the majority of the people who are fond of the AE86 are like me, they were not old enough to drive when the car was for sale new. The people toyota wants to, and are selling the car to now are young. They probably played some video games with AE86s, and may not have ever known anyone who actually owned one. But as all car makers know with young buyers they almost always eventually gorw up, have kids and want a back seat.



But the GenIII had a higher CdA than the GenII even with a lower Cd. But if you look at what mercedes has done with the CLA you can no longer get away with the argument that if you want a low Cd it has to look that way. I have faith that the toyota engineers will figure out how to have the genIV have a lower or equal Cd and have a more traditional shape.

Personally though I think that shape is beautiful as I've boght both a genII and genIII and the genII was bought before I would even consider myself an ecomodder.