Trying out 0w-16 oil for more MPG
 

After running 0w-20 in the Saturn sc1 for 10 years, 75k miles, I decided to change the oil with 0w-16. Should give 2% mpg over 0w-20 and 7% over 5w-30, spec for sc1. Been getting ~40 mpg. New oil should give 41 mpg.

How many gallons of oil do you burn?


I have considered the stuff for the 2000 Insight but the 0w20 Synthetic gas truck oil was so cheap and it quiets the engine down compared to the Mobil AFE

Do let us know if you see a big difference.

I would only be okay trying out a drop in viscosity grade if I knew the oil temp. High performance cars that have 50 or 60 spec from the factory are supposed to run okay at 260F on the track where the oil has thinned down to around 11cSt, but you're not supposed to go much below that or the bearings take damage on some cars (cough BMW).

A car with way too much oil capacity or aggressive oil cooling might have trouble getting oil temp over 180F on the street, and 0w-16 would be at a perfectly fine viscosity of around 9 cSt there if the engine was originally supposed to take 20 or 30.

So rapid damage considered and avoided, the question becomes is it worth it. Supertech brand synthetic oil is what, 15 bucks a jug? Mobil 1 AFE 0w-16 is 23, and Mobil 1 is not really known for having good anti-wear properties AFAIK. If you get a 1% improvement in FE, you're looking at 800 bucks of gasoline before breaking even, and that's a LOT of miles, and risking more bearing wear at the same time.

I thought the same thing!

If I put it in my old Chevy 3500 I'm pretty sure it would just pour out the bottom at the same rate I was pouring it in the top, and would seize the motor as soon as I tried to turn it over even if I could get it to stay in there

Some of my friends owned older Saturns, both burned oil but one quite literally needed oil added everyday using the stock grade oil.

It didn’t smoke but burned about as much as a 2 cycle

Likely could of used old HD30 without much fuss

I don't burn it, I give to a friend that uses it to heat his garage.

Car doesn't use much oil, haven't kept track, seem to be less that when I first got it. Maybe a quart in 2k miles, it has 175k on it. I'm running it with crankcase vacuum.

Instead of thinking mpg gain, look for the percent change in gph at idle.

Get it fully warmed up, then let it settle at idle and see how many gph you're burning. Then change the oil, get the new load fully warmed up, and see how many gph you're burning now.

Not 0w16 but related: I'm considering running 0w20 in my engine after I run through my stock of 0w30, and could use some opinion.

The K24A2 in my car calls for 5w30 and was never later spec'd down, while most other Honda engines from the period were. For example the K24A4 in the Accord was originally spec'd for 5w20 and later given "0w20 also ok". That engine is extremely similar, but has lower compression (9.7:1 vs 10.5:1), a lower redline (6800rpm vs 7100rpm), and less horsepower (160 vs 200) which is mostly from camshafts and smaller intake and exhaust diameter. Aside from different camshafts, pistons and rods, they're basically the same. Bearings even have the same part number.

Later revisions of the K series all call for 0w20, even ones with the same horsepower and redline. But again, Honda did not back-spec this particular engine, when they did that for most others. This is the highest factory torque and horsepower of any K series.

I live in a cool climate. Without a grille block, I have a hard time getting it up to temperature any month of the year, but especially in winter. I have no way to monitor oil temps but I expect they're not high. I'm planning on adding the coolant/oil heat exchanger from another K series soon, mainly to help the oil to get warm. I have also reduced the rev limiter from 7200rpm down to 7000rpm.

On the other hand, I have an under-driven oil pump (which probably still has pressure limited by the relief spring). I run much more advanced ignition timing (5-7° at WOT), meaning there's more force being applied to rods and bearings. I also do drive spiritedly in short bursts - it's not particularly rare for this engine to bounce off of my rev limiter.

Thoughts? 0w20 probably fine? Even thinner? What would you do?

Edit: Under what operating conditions will lower viscosity oil most likely become a problem? Is it low RPM high cylinder pressure, or high RPM operation?

5w-30 in everything but the 2 cycles, don't care about the spec. A few % mpg isn't worth it.

In your application I wouldn’t, I would stick with 0w30 (which carries zero risk)

If you put lower spec oil listen to your engine and do a UOA on it.

A single bout of lower spec oil in “normal driving” will sound noisy but likely not cause failure

In my cars where I tested this it made them much noisier.

If you send in a UOA and notice high metals no sense continueing

I would recommend Rotella Gas Truck full synthetic 5w20 if you want to test a 20w, it seems to be on the heavier end of 20w and is more sheer resistant
Even better it’s on clearance many places for $10 a 5q jug

I'm not convinced lighter weight oil is better for an engine or MPG. I've got a 2016 Nissan Versa SV 1.6L with CVT. In about 13 months of driving and 10527.8 miles tracked my overall average is 47.082 MPG using old school conventional 10w40. I suspect with use of some of these light weight oils the engine may not be getting lubricated properly and may actually cause more wear and more friction. I'm almost 400 miles into the current tank on the Versa and according to the Ultra Gauge I'm in line for my best ever tank at somewhere around 52 MPG.

I ran 10w40 in my old '88 Ford Escort too, when I retired it a few years ago it had 518K miles and hadn't never been rebuilt.

My personal experience, when cold, they definitely make a difference. In Vermont, I've seen weeks where you physically could not pour 10w30 out of a bottle, nevermind pump it through tiny oil passages. I can't imagine it's lubricating very well.

There are also Honda engines I'm aware of which have been running 0w20 from day 1, and have over 600,000 miles on them - with aluminum blocks. Honda and Toyota have been running much thinner oils in Japan for decades than you can buy in the US even today.

https://www.eneos.us/blog/going-low-viscocity/

https://www.eneos.us/wp-content/uplo...graphic-r3.png

As for whether it's safe or worth it, I can't speak directly to that. However Honda has been filling their hybrids and L15 motors (including those with turbos I believe) with something that resembles a 0w8 for around 8 years now.

Yeah, being an old guy growing up in the 1950s, it's hard for me to pour 0W20 in my Mazda's crankcase. When I first started changing my family's oil, we were using straight 30W or 10W30 and 10W40. Heck, I still use 15W40 in my '96 F250 diesel. So the 0W20 is a big change for me.

But it seems to work well. I regularly experience temperatures in the 90s during the summertime, topping 100F occasionally, and the Mazda seems to take it fine with the thin brew. Of course, I haven't bothered to install an oil pressure gauge, so I don't know what that's doing, but the engine seems fine and uses no oil between changes. So, what's to worry?

I guess we're both just old school. I grew up in the '60-70's. I too remember when dad used 30W in his car and changed it every 1K miles if I remember correctly. When he traded for a new Mercury Montego in 1968 I think that's when he started using multi viscosity oil. At the time the recommended fill for new Fords was Motorcraft 20w40 at 6K mile intervals. After awhile dad started using 10w40 and continued to use it for years until he finally went to 10w30 on a 1999 Grand Marquis the last car he had before his death and the one mom still owns. I bought my first car in 1977. I started using 10w40 in it and for the most part I've been running 10w40 ever since. I've used various brands over the years. Usually when I buy oil I buy it on sale and buy several cases at a time so I may run 50-100K miles on the same oil then change to another brand that I've found at a good deal. The oil I'm using in my Versa is Citgo Supergard that I bought probably 15-20 years ago at a store grand opening at 2qts./$1. I haven't done a count on it lately but I've probably still got 3-4 cases of it. At 3.2qts. per 5-6K mile change interval a case will last approximately 20-24K miles. Nissan recommends 5K mile change intervals but when I drain the oil if I get some of it on my hands it's still just a dark honey color, nowhere near black and feels like it's still got great lubrication properties. I don't do oil analysis on my oil but if I did I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't recommend an oil change no more often than 7500. Someone on another forum told me he did 9K mile intervals on 10w40 conventional and his engines outlasted the rest of the car.

I can't see the harm in using a thinner winter weight. I ran 0w30 with 7500 change intervals in my 1995 F150 for years, which had Ford's 300CID, an engine which came into service in 1965. It was quiet and smooth with that viscosity of oil.

Don't anyone take me the wrong way I'm by no means a lubrication specialist, but you can find something somewhere on the internet to back your view on about any subject. I remember reading an article a few years ago online that said 15w40 was probably the best trade off of any weight available. Just today I found this. https://www.machinerylubrication.com...518/motor-oils I guess the main reason I stick with 10w40 in my vehicles is because over a 43 year period and approx. 1M miles they've worked great for me. Living in KY our climate as a general rule falls between 0*-100*F and 10w40 specs fall within that range. I think I have either some 5w30 or 10w30 or possibly both in the garage that I bought a couple years ago that if I live long enough I'll eventually try but, at my age it's likely my son will end up using some of the oil I've purchased over the past few years. I'm still using 10w40 Exxon Superflo in my '97 Ford Escort that I bought in the '90's so I'm trying to use up the older stuff before moving on to the newer stuff. I started using the Superflo at the first oil change and have been using it ever since. I know now they say it's safe to use multi viscosity oils in small engines but for years they advised against it because of excessive oil consuption. I still use 30w in my lawn mowers.

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:turtle:

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.Ive run 0-w20 for 75 k miles, no ill effects.

I have a question, when does the majority of engine wear occur?

Start up.

Which oil reaches the bearings first, a thick oil or a thin oil? Well of course the oil that flows easiest. There is an pressure regulator, so when cold both oils have the same pressure. I took the regulator out of my moms 75 le mans, because it broke, and the oil filter puffed up.

My Saturn engine is designed for 100 hp at 5000 rpm, I rarely go over 3000, usually its under 2000. Like I said 75k no ill effects. I can lug it under 1000 rpm and no oil light comes on.

The Saturn will rust through before the engine wears out.


In the early 80s's I had a 68 beetle. I put a teflon oil treatment in the engine. I had to turn down the idle afterward. Is the Saturn idling faster now? Maybe, its hard to tell, but does seem faster. I have the aux air port mostly plugged.

If I had an escort with 500k id probably use 10w40 too, especially if it knocked with thinner oil. I use to use 10w-40, then 5-w30. I started 0-w20 when I first saw in at Walmart, about 20 years ago. Diesels need thicker oil, I use 0w40 in my TDI.

Honda calls for 0w20 in their diesels.

There have been multiple change since the 70s that have effected engine longevity. The more complete combustion of fuel, with the use of EFI and high energy ignitions have significantly reduced the contamination of oil. The fuel its self has had a significant reduction in contaminates.

2012 Fiesta 5W20
2006 GP 5W30

If I had a 70s Escort that had been running 10W40 and had a garage full I would continue using it also.

At my level of accuracy (keeping quite a few of my last used jugs of oil) I have noted that my 2010 Prius uses the same amount of oil with 0w-16 and 0w-20. 10k miles per change, towing boat in the summer, 150kmi+, 5qt in, 3.5qt out.

It may be 0w16 for the first 1000 miles but all motor oils shear downgrade with use, getting thinner. Eventually the viscosity goes back up as the volatiles evaporate but still there needs to be a limit to how thin you should go. For me, it's just not worth going uber thin and risking my engine internals to gain 1-2 mpg.

I use 0w20 in my 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan with the 3.6 L Pentastar engine. From 2012 model year to 2013 there does not seem to be any change in engine specifications, yet in 2013 Chrysler changed their recommendation for motor oil from 5w30 to 5w20. Since 5w20 and 0w20 are almost the same on the low side, I switched to 0w20 , 7000 miles (12500 km) ago.

During winter at minus 20 Celsius, there is a short clicking noise at start up. On the coolant temperature side, summer or winter with a grille blocage, it never went up higher than 100 C or 210 F.

With the "wheel nut" under control, LRR tires at prescribed pressure, in the "nice season" my mileage is 10,5 L/100 km (22,4 mpg US) and my recent best highway 7,7 L/100 km (30.5 mpg US).

I look forward to test de 0w16 as I feel the faster lubrication in very cold weather is a plus.

I also use 0W20 in my 1999 Acura EL which is the same as Honda Civic EX in the US with the D16Y8 engine. This engine is notorious for the bearing problems. Everything is cool, noise and coolant temperature and no oil burning or consumption with more than 120 000 miles on and strong and even compression numbers.

From my early days in the car service industry in the '70s, I remember that North American engines never lasted as long as European engines like Mercedes and Rolls Royce. Why? Parts tolerances. In other words attention given to making as best a product as possible. By the end of the '70s, the Japanese automakers had adopted the then most accurate tooling and were making engines with parts working in extra tight tolerances and shape precision. This reduces friction wear & tear a lot and requires a lower viscosity oil between the parts to lubricate and cool.

In North America until the mid '80s, Ford for example, delivered many in line 6 and V8 that they designed and the shops were tooled in the '50s. The difference in longevity and mileage between similar Japanese and American cars were more than noticeable. With an American car with some valve noise and oil burning the solution was often to raise the oil viscosity to cure the problem. Higher viscosity oil better fill the voids between piston rings and cylinder thus limiting oil burning and gas blow by polluting the oil in return.

North American automakers have come to their sense that making profit is not to provide the same old technology and dated manufacturing but to compete by offering quality. They still have some way to go.

I would bet that China and India with their newer car plants for their quality models will offer tighter tolerances between engine inner components and compete with Japanese and Korean automakers to offer even better mileage and engine longevity.

I haven't gone through half a quart yet since mid Aprl, a month and a half... Car has 178k, Mileage around 40mpg, 39 with the kayak on top, 70-80 mph.