Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-15-2020, 11:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
Master Ecomadman
 
arcosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,156

sc1 - '98 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 43.17 mpg (US)

Airplane Bike - '11 home built Carp line Tour

rans - '97 rans tailwind

tractor - '66 International Cub cadet 129

2002 Space Odyssey - '02 Honda Odyssey EX-L
90 day: 28.25 mpg (US)

red bug - '00 VW beetle TDI

big tractor - '66 ford 3400

red vw - '00 VW new beetle TDI
90 day: 58.42 mpg (US)

RV - '88 Winnebago LeSharo
90 day: 16.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 337 Times in 227 Posts
Trying out 0w-16 oil for more MPG

After running 0w-20 in the Saturn sc1 for 10 years, 75k miles, I decided to change the oil with 0w-16. Should give 2% mpg over 0w-20 and 7% over 5w-30, spec for sc1. Been getting ~40 mpg. New oil should give 41 mpg.

__________________
- Tony


Last edited by arcosine; 04-15-2020 at 11:28 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to arcosine For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-16-2020)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-15-2020, 10:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,891

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 506
Thanked 868 Times in 654 Posts
How many gallons of oil do you burn?


I have considered the stuff for the 2000 Insight but the 0w20 Synthetic gas truck oil was so cheap and it quiets the engine down compared to the Mobil AFE
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 09:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,756

spyder2 - '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder
Thanks: 104
Thanked 407 Times in 312 Posts
Do let us know if you see a big difference.

I would only be okay trying out a drop in viscosity grade if I knew the oil temp. High performance cars that have 50 or 60 spec from the factory are supposed to run okay at 260F on the track where the oil has thinned down to around 11cSt, but you're not supposed to go much below that or the bearings take damage on some cars (cough BMW).

A car with way too much oil capacity or aggressive oil cooling might have trouble getting oil temp over 180F on the street, and 0w-16 would be at a perfectly fine viscosity of around 9 cSt there if the engine was originally supposed to take 20 or 30.

So rapid damage considered and avoided, the question becomes is it worth it. Supertech brand synthetic oil is what, 15 bucks a jug? Mobil 1 AFE 0w-16 is 23, and Mobil 1 is not really known for having good anti-wear properties AFAIK. If you get a 1% improvement in FE, you're looking at 800 bucks of gasoline before breaking even, and that's a LOT of miles, and risking more bearing wear at the same time.

Last edited by serialk11r; 04-16-2020 at 09:13 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to serialk11r For This Useful Post:
rmay635703 (04-16-2020)
Old 04-16-2020, 12:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
cowmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,659

Princess Carriage - '20 Ford Explorer Limited

Silver - '22 Ford Maverick Hybrid XLT w/tow pkg
Maverick Hybrids
90 day: 41.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 128
Thanked 764 Times in 461 Posts
Quote:
How many gallons of oil do you burn?
I thought the same thing!

If I put it in my old Chevy 3500 I'm pretty sure it would just pour out the bottom at the same rate I was pouring it in the top, and would seize the motor as soon as I tried to turn it over even if I could get it to stay in there
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 02:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,891

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 506
Thanked 868 Times in 654 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
I thought the same thing!

If I put it in my old Chevy 3500 I'm pretty sure it would just pour out the bottom at the same rate I was pouring it in the top
Some of my friends owned older Saturns, both burned oil but one quite literally needed oil added everyday using the stock grade oil.

It didn’t smoke but burned about as much as a 2 cycle

Likely could of used old HD30 without much fuss
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 04:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master Ecomadman
 
arcosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,156

sc1 - '98 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 43.17 mpg (US)

Airplane Bike - '11 home built Carp line Tour

rans - '97 rans tailwind

tractor - '66 International Cub cadet 129

2002 Space Odyssey - '02 Honda Odyssey EX-L
90 day: 28.25 mpg (US)

red bug - '00 VW beetle TDI

big tractor - '66 ford 3400

red vw - '00 VW new beetle TDI
90 day: 58.42 mpg (US)

RV - '88 Winnebago LeSharo
90 day: 16.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 337 Times in 227 Posts
I don't burn it, I give to a friend that uses it to heat his garage.

Car doesn't use much oil, haven't kept track, seem to be less that when I first got it. Maybe a quart in 2k miles, it has 175k on it. I'm running it with crankcase vacuum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
How many gallons of oil do you burn?


I have considered the stuff for the 2000 Insight but the 0w20 Synthetic gas truck oil was so cheap and it quiets the engine down compared to the Mobil AFE
__________________
- Tony

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 06:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 4,150

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,784
Thanked 1,922 Times in 1,246 Posts
Instead of thinking mpg gain, look for the percent change in gph at idle.

Get it fully warmed up, then let it settle at idle and see how many gph you're burning. Then change the oil, get the new load fully warmed up, and see how many gph you're burning now.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-16-2020), MetroMPG (05-04-2020)
Old 04-16-2020, 10:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,096

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.72 mpg (US)

Oxygen Blue - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 58.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,907
Thanked 2,571 Times in 1,594 Posts
Not 0w16 but related: I'm considering running 0w20 in my engine after I run through my stock of 0w30, and could use some opinion.

The K24A2 in my car calls for 5w30 and was never later spec'd down, while most other Honda engines from the period were. For example the K24A4 in the Accord was originally spec'd for 5w20 and later given "0w20 also ok". That engine is extremely similar, but has lower compression (9.7:1 vs 10.5:1), a lower redline (6800rpm vs 7100rpm), and less horsepower (160 vs 200) which is mostly from camshafts and smaller intake and exhaust diameter. Aside from different camshafts, pistons and rods, they're basically the same. Bearings even have the same part number.

Later revisions of the K series all call for 0w20, even ones with the same horsepower and redline. But again, Honda did not back-spec this particular engine, when they did that for most others. This is the highest factory torque and horsepower of any K series.

I live in a cool climate. Without a grille block, I have a hard time getting it up to temperature any month of the year, but especially in winter. I have no way to monitor oil temps but I expect they're not high. I'm planning on adding the coolant/oil heat exchanger from another K series soon, mainly to help the oil to get warm. I have also reduced the rev limiter from 7200rpm down to 7000rpm.

On the other hand, I have an under-driven oil pump (which probably still has pressure limited by the relief spring). I run much more advanced ignition timing (5-7° at WOT), meaning there's more force being applied to rods and bearings. I also do drive spiritedly in short bursts - it's not particularly rare for this engine to bounce off of my rev limiter.

Thoughts? 0w20 probably fine? Even thinner? What would you do?

Edit: Under what operating conditions will lower viscosity oil most likely become a problem? Is it low RPM high cylinder pressure, or high RPM operation?

Last edited by Ecky; 04-16-2020 at 10:56 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 10:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: na
Posts: 1,025
Thanks: 277
Thanked 218 Times in 185 Posts
5w-30 in everything but the 2 cycles, don't care about the spec. A few % mpg isn't worth it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 11:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,891

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 506
Thanked 868 Times in 654 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Not 0w16 but related: I'm considering running 0w20 in my engine after I run through my stock of 0w30, and could use some opinion.

The K24A2 in my car calls for 5w30 and was never later spec'd

On the other hand, I have an under-driven oil pump (which probably still has pressure limited by the relief spring). I run much more advanced ignition timing (5-7° at WOT), meaning there's more force being applied to rods and bearings. I also do drive spiritedly in short bursts - it's not particularly rare for this engine to bounce off of my rev limiter.

Thoughts? 0w20 probably fine? Even thinner? What would you do?
In your application I wouldn’t, I would stick with 0w30 (which carries zero risk)

If you put lower spec oil listen to your engine and do a UOA on it.

A single bout of lower spec oil in “normal driving” will sound noisy but likely not cause failure

In my cars where I tested this it made them much noisier.

If you send in a UOA and notice high metals no sense continueing

I would recommend Rotella Gas Truck full synthetic 5w20 if you want to test a 20w, it seems to be on the heavier end of 20w and is more sheer resistant
Even better it’s on clearance many places for $10 a 5q jug

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rmay635703 For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-16-2020)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com