Van instead of SUV?
 

Am I the only one here who would prefer a van over an SUV? Comparing vehicles with a similar size and nearly the same driveline, a van would often provide a more usable space, which makes more sense from an utility standpoint, and eventually can even get a better fuel economy.

Going a little further, there are those typical Japanese vans that are usually shorter and narrower than a compact pick-up truck or SUV while still providing more useful space than the SUV and a fully enclosed rear area. Sure it wouldn't be suitable for someone who actually needs 5th-wheel towing capability, but they would be a good option for an average "working-class hero" and the soccer-moms.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3eAUUH7EZU...ro-direito.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bl5Cle4eE...ta%2Bhiace.jpg

workaround ideas to discuss among friends: Why do I prefer a van over an SUV with a similar powertrain?

Yes


The only vehicle that competes with a minivan for utility, in my eyes, is the tahoe/suburban. We bought a traverse and love it!

I lost interest in minivans when I saw how much they weigh(4000lbs+). No way to get decent gas mileage with that. Plus the aerodynamics of a brick...eww.
Maybe certain imports will be better. Maybe.

It's relative, our minivan will get 19 with a 80% city cycle and my wife not even trying. I can get it up to 29 on the highway. It has more room then a Suburban which even as a hybrid can't touch that highway. That is a 2011 Chrysler. The 2017 Pacifica has much improved areo, lighter weight, and improved engine. It should be over 30 highway pretty easy and soon there will be a hybrid version as well.

We have both the minivan and an Aspen which is almost the same size as a Tahoe. The minivan is much more used, the Aspen is for nasty mountain roads and towing the camper. The minivan is used every, single, day, even sundays and vacations.

Chevy Suburban:
MSRP $49,915
16/23mpg city/highway
39.3 ft³, 121.7 ft³ with seat area

Honda Odyssey
MSRP $29,550
19/27mpg city/highway
38.4 ft³, 148.5 ft³ with seat area

My ex-sister-in-law went and bought a Suburban. Would she ever tow anything? No. It's a glorified minivan. In this case the "glory" an extra $10k, terrible gas mileage, and less interior space.

Why? "Because."

Unfortunately, those Japanese cabover vans are not available in the US.

I had a '88 Vanagon Syncro that was great in the city, on snow and ice, and dirt road driving. Highway driving was high stress in windy conditions (shoebox on stilts). MPG was a solid 16 city and 18 highway. The Cd of a base 2wd vanagon was .44.

When the vanagon died, I drove a borrowed Dodge Caravan and loved the improved highway handling and much better highway mpg. I soon bought a '92 T&C. The Caravan design is versatile and the payload equals that of a 1/2 ton pickup, though that is for occasional use, unless you put in optional heavy duty springs (you need to also distribute the load to approximate passenger seating, so no heavy point loads).

I am driving a 2014 T&C now and it gets 16 to 18 (depending on the weather) around town and about 27 on the highway (over 30 if conditions are perfect). I drove an earlier model rental with the 4L V6 that performed better and got better mpg. The automatic transmission used in the Chrysler minivans is prone to failure. Why they have been unable to fix it in over 30 years is a mystery.

The hybrid Pacifica is tempting, but very pricey at $43.090 ($35,590 after federal rebate). Replacement battery pack is priced above $11,000.

I had considered a full-size van and nearly bought a very nice Chevy 12 passenger. Fuel economy would have been acceptable for mixed driving.

In the US most vans are uni body built up from car or suv platforms and transverse drive trains.
In the US the term "SUV" could mean a glorified car or something with a frame, V-8 engine, heavy duty transmission and full float axle.
Just depends on what you need.

No.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bl5Cle4eE...ta%2Bhiace.jpg

That's a nice, friendly front end.

I had a 1961 VW Type II panel van. On a fresh engine rebuild, I ran 60 miles over the Oregon Coast Range and it took exactly 2 gallons. It had staggered tire sizes, sway bars and gas-pressurized shocks; I had policemen pull me over to tell me how well it went around corners. :) 85mph top speed and 75mph summiting the Coast Range when empty.

It weighed as much as a Beetle and had 3/4 ton rated axles. Too bad they are unobtanium now.

Those forward-control Jap vans are not as weak as their size may suggest. They share most of the mechanical configuration with the compact trucks from their respective brands. Anyway, the internal volume of those vans seem to be more optimized than it would be in a comparable SUV.

Around here minivans are probably more popular than SUVs. And wagons or hatches are more popular than minivans.

Since a truck emerged from a working tool into a quite aspirational vehicle, which extended to the popularity of the SUVs, it ends up sounding even more intriguing that vans are still somewhat rejected by many private/recreational users. Comparing those stereotypically-American full-size vans to the truck-based SUVs with a similar mechanical configuration, even if the van ain't so much more compact on the outside, I'm sure it being roomier would become a good argument in their favor.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YMkGjMSJy...iton%2Bv10.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iS9l1RrDs...ro-direito.jpg

I'm a van guy, I prefer the security over a ute.
I've got a 2000 Toyota townace 2lt auto van.
I read somewhere it is suppose to have CD of .34 and gets reasonable fuel economy on the highway. I just got back from a road trip where it was getting 7.7L per 100k at 100kph.
Unfortunately around town the torque converter rarely locks up meaning far worse 10.5-11L per 100k

+1 for vans!
 

I love my van. I have a Ford E250 extended cargo van and it is the most useful work vehicle I've ever had. It is like a shed with wheels. I can slide a 12' sheet of drywall in vertically up between the two front seats if I need to and still shut the rear doors. I like cargo vans over pickup trucks for work because they offer much more protected space from the elements.

...as are as fuel economy goes, I purchased my 2005 E250 with the smaller 4.6L V8 hoping for better gas mileage. But it is still a gas hog. Depending on fuel prices, regularly driving this van has cost me between $300-$500 a month for fuel (I have been getting 13-15mpg). I need to hook up my fuel gauge and see what better driving techniques could do to improve this.

I still keep it insured and available when I need to haul a big load to a job site (I do construction), but for day to day fuel economy back and forth I am driving my Toyota Tercel as much as possible.

My wife's minivan is awesome. It can seat 7, has a variety of seating/luggage combinations, can pull our camper without trying too hard, can fit 4x8 sheets that the manly trucks and SUVs can't, and gets decent mileage to boot.

A Honda Odyssey (and similar) is a better tow vehicle than a Suburban or other BOF, live -axle vehicle.

While I really prefer cars, I'd be happy to run around in a "minivan" (they're pretty big nowadays). As they also best qualify for the only family vehicle, they're a good choice.

A family using one to pull a 25' Airstream travel trailer can pretty well move to and live anywhere in the US outside of constant below-freezing temperatures.

The efficiency of both vehicles is singularly high. Combined, its unmatched.

.

i set up my gauge in my e250 yesterday and am now getting a 20mpg average (mostly highway) i'm excited about all that i've learned from this website. i've never gotten this good of gas mileage with this gas hog. its totally stock, just driving it a little better. now how should i mod the thing to make it even better?!

The question deserves a thread of it's own. I'd look to get equal improvement in aero and drivetrain (pit the two against each other). With aero and your probable use case, most of the opportunity is in the underside and wheelwells.

Last one I saw had Paraguayan license plates and converted to LHD.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bej6CYMgLI.../Photo9784.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OUwDXf1ro0.../Photo9787.jpg

Vans are great. I had a Dodge conversion van, total overkill for a single guy, but for traditional SUV FE, it just offered more usability. Biggest minus was the doghouse eating up driver footroom which affected comfort.

When we ditched our Rio for a full family rig, neither my wife nor I considered an SUV, aside from the Ford Flex, if that's considered a crossover. I spent a big chunk of my childhood in minivans, and wifey has really never acquiesced to the SUV form factor. Similar to my conversion van, minivans just offer more flexibility from the real estate it occupies. But minivans have gotten so heavy (almost 5000lb curb weight for our Town + Country) that around town it's a true fuel hog - she averages 13-17mpg. Out on the interstate, however, where it reigns supreme, I'd challenge most any three-row SUV to match its FE. I haven't spent much time driving it, but I saw an FCD indicated 36mpg from Harrisburg, PA to Washington DC which was hilly but had plenty of 55mph speed zones.

Oh boy I could go on and on...my own brief drives for FE, comparing it to Acadias/Traverses/Tahoes/Escalades...

OK, I'll play. Here's mine:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1481032983

Same size as a Ford E-Series, 35mpg city. 43 hwy. 1.6 Twin Turbo diesel, 3700lbs, usually have around 600lbs on board. Can carry 14' long materials internally.

Is the 3rd-gen Trafic really that big? I'm only used to the 1st generation which had been made in Argentina until 2002, and I still see some roaming around. European and Japanese vans tend to be at least slightly narrower on the outside than the full-size American ones.


Yes, a full-size American van is quite overkill, but I bet a conversion van would still fare better than an SUV during road trips, since they usually get some amenities that you wouldn't fit so easily into an SUV.


Sometimes it seems like the 'mini' was taken out of them. That's why recently I got into those forward-control Japanese vans (and their Korean licensed copies) again. Even the bonnetted ones are quite closer to the original definition of a minivan than the current oversized Chryslers.

It's 1" narrower, 1" shorter, and my LWB is a fraction longer than the shortest E-Series, but shares the same 3.5m WB.

My sister complains about the fuel economy in her Traverse with three rows.

I blame the driver.

I love vans! I do generally prefer them to SUV's sometimes even considering myself an SUV hater, even though I do like some SUV's for certain applications.

I often ponder over the idea of getting a van to replace our +500,000 miles 1985 VW Golf diesel, our current long distance companion to our Nissan Leaf. With a van I could not only go long distances on those once in a while occasions, but also haul stuff or people that won't fit in the Leaf. I might even be able to tow the Leaf with a van. Or get a camping van, sell the house and take the wife to wherever we want to go!

Some notable vans I've been interested in have been (not a complete list.)

1. Toyota Previa. Fair fuel mileage, short body, mid-engine and supercharged. What's not to love? I've always wanted to swap a manual transmission into a supercharged Previa. But I've also wished the second generation and diesel variant Previas would have made it to the USA.
2. Mazda5, the "mini-mini-van". I wished cars had more seats. What happened to those front bench seats? I hate having to take two cars just because there's that one extra person.
3. Ford Transit, Dodge Promaster, Chevy Express... I've also thought of getting a BIG van. Something with 15 seats. I've got plenty of friends to take places. Why not all together? I wonder what kind of fuel mileage the new 4 cylinder diesel Chevy Express and GMC Savanna get?

The way I see it a van holds more stuff and/or people, costs less and gets better fuel mileage than a full sized SUV. For a smaller crossover I'd prefer a station wagon, which also have more space, cost less and get better fuel mileage. After living in the mountains of Colorado only all of my nearly 40 years of life I've decided that AWD and 4WD for the most part are overkill, unless you have a long driveway you have to maintain yourself. Plus there are FWD versions of mini-vans and vans if you look out for them. I once had an AWD Chevy Astro. However, I did hate the poor fuel mileage. I went from $200 per month in fuel to $15 when I got the Leaf.

Previas roock.

• The five-speed manual Previas (North American models) were made from 1990 through to 1993 (model year 1991 to 1993); none of these have a supercharger.[5]
• From 1991 to 1997 (from 1992 to 1997 model years), North American Previas also came with a swivel feature on the optional middle-row captain's chairs; 1990 to 1991 production (1991 model year) had fixed optional captain's chairs.
• Available on Previas outside the U.S., was an ice-maker/refrigerator that doubled as a beverage heater called the Hot/Cool Box.
• The supercharged engine is different from the normally aspirated engine, owing to a slight decrease in compression ratio and stronger engine internals. The supercharger is engaged on-demand by an electromagnetic clutch, based on input from the engine management system computer (the Engine Control Unit, or ECU).
• Previas have optional dual moonroofs: A power horizontal-sliding only glass moonroof above the middle row of passengers, and a pop-up glass moonroof above the front seats.
• Gas mileage is below average (11-13L/100 km or 18.1–21.4mpg city, 10-11L/100 km or 21.4–23.5mpg highway); the small 4-cyl engine needs to work a bit harder owing to the power to weight ratio of the vehicle, compared with today's 6-cyl engines. The addition of the supercharger slightly improves power and gives better fuel consumption.
• In the United States, first generation Previa model variations, in order of lowest to highest price/option features, are: DX, DX All-Trac, DX S/C, LE, LE All-Trac, LE S/C, LE S/C All-Trac (where S/C = Supercharged and AllTrac = 4WD)

What Toyota didn't make: An AWD supercharged five-speed unit with a Hot/Cool box and the Canadian dashboard with a tachometer. I'd want mine with a hippy van interior and murdered out exterior.

I've seen diesel engines for Previas on eBay. I'd love to drop one of those into a five speed.

IIRC the JDM Diesel Previa (known there as Lucida) was also slightly smaller than the regular Previa/Estima, in order to avoid the liability of an extra tax for vehicles either wider than 1.70m, longer than 4.70m, or both.

EV conversion with a conformal solar panel roof.

Not really my cup of tea, but maybe a hybrid conversion wouldn't be totally out of question.

I've often thought of this for some of my friends and family that live in poorer countries. Typical big families (have to haul around a van to carry everyone) with vehicles driven until they die completely. An EV would require very little maintenance and the solar would basically be free fuel. Or make 3 solar panels up there that slide into one big panel that tilts. an 8ft x 20ft panel that slides into a 24ft x 20ft panel could easily make as much as 6kW, plenty of juice on sunny days to get your daily 30 miles. There are kits as low as $250 per kW now available, so about $1,500 plus frames, glass, and charge controllers.

A self garaging motorbike with solar panels:
http://psipunk.com/wp-content/upload...guimera-01.jpg
http://psipunk.com/wp-content/upload...guimera-02.jpg
http://psipunk.com/wp-content/upload...guimera-03.jpg
Future Transportation - SunRed Solar Motorbike Wraps In A Retractable Shell With Solar Panels

I live in a poorer country.


Free fuel sounds quite attractive, but since many 3rd-world countries have a state-owned oil company it doesn't seem so likely to happen. But anyway, a plug-in hybrid still sounds more likely to succeed than an all-electric vehicle.


It would probably be at least the double of that price in Brazil, due to import duties and other taxes :turtle:

The nice thing about where my in-laws live is it's right across the boarder in Mexico. I could make it here and then drive it across the boarder like your average American tourist driving a solar powered van.

I'm not sure how I'd get a solar vehicle to my sister in Belize.

If I lived in the U.S. and near the Mexican border I'd be tempted to get a Toyota Hiace and keep it with Mexican plates, even if I would need to have an address in Mexico too. Have already considering to do something like this here in Brazil in order to (legally) have access to some cars that are available in neighboring countries such as Uruguay and Argentina.

Definitely I must have been born in the wrong country. Notice the Argentinian plates in the Renault Kangoo converted to CNG and the Paraguayan plates in the JDM Toyota FunCargo:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--pPo9ZqtR...ro-direito.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tCxDv4GhT...or%2Bbaixo.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jh6Da1mcP...ro-direito.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NGGrnOWZJ...o-esquerdo.jpg

We got those funcargos/yaris versos here in finland, with also 1.4 diesel engines, some registered as vans.

I had a mb suv that i sold. Then i used a fiat doblo 1.3 multijet for a couple of months.

I must say creature comforts are not quite the same but functionnality wise it was phenomenal.

I could haul all my junk including a dirtbike. Fuel economy was good, 5.6 l/100km in traffic and 4.5l/100km eco driving...

When I said I like vans, I didn't mean it in the sense of strictly-commercial vehicles.

BTW spotted this Chinese JMC Touring with Bolivian plates today.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OoFnG-tCq...C3%25ADvia.jpg

If I never end up convincing myself to make a pusher trailer for my electric car I will likely buy a MAZDA5 minivan with a manual transmission.

Even though I'm not unfavorable to automatic transmissions, especially because they enable usage of "space-saving" shifters, that seems to be a good option.