"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!
 

GM admits Volt doubts - Autocar.co.uk

Chevy Volt nabs shaky 230 MPG rating, might not ship in 2010

Video of CNN reporter asking questions AND test driving a Volt:
Chevrolet Volt's official fuel economy: 230 mpg - Aug. 11, 2009

It seems just like the same OLD GM that we were told got buried this year. Can anyone explain to me why on earth ANY car company would run around the internet with various Volt dedicated sites, and post videos on You Tube and video on TV, press statements and yet they have taken grant money for years (not counting the large low interest loan- bailout!) to let everyone in the world know and understand the full logic behind the 2011 "'Volt"? Why not just send all blueprints and schematics straight to Japan and China? Have they ever thought of even TRYING to surprise the market place by bringing a car out much earlier than planed? It turns out the Volt's head engineer guy over the Battery and other important parts just quit to start up his own company- They say the government control put a cap on his salary so he left to make much more $$ in the private sector.

And NOW GM tells us The Volt, well can you guess? After all of these YEARS and months of hyping "the car that will turn GM around" and pegging a date of Mid-2010 for dealers to get the car, just guess what happen on their way to work today!?? AH, THE VOLT? Oh yeah that one.... Well, it seems we may not be getting the last grant we have applied for three times for and NOT received any reply yet, and our best Hybrid Expert just quit, so The Volt May NOT COME OUT IN 2010. And, can you just imagine this: It seems their TOP SECRET CAR gave the competition some ideas!

In fact, GM has already stated that they have information that the competition is well on their way to getting an even superior car out based on the fundamentals that GM has shown the world off as The Volt. And THAT means, THE VOLT MAY NEVER EVER BE VIABLE FOR CUSTOMERS TO BUY! And if it was to ever be fore sale it might 2011 or later. But, based on what their latest statements say, the competition has a better car that likely could come out before The Volt was supposed to original hit the market, at a rumored $40,000 car that would be selling BELOW what it cost for GM in hopes future generations would cost less to build.

It is at times like this I get tired of sticking up for GM. They do stupid stuff. I bet if Toyota had a hot selling car in mind that they would not be seen ridding around in it for a couple years as they tweak the little bugs out of the car. Why can not GM get anything right? So far I love my Chevy, but over all they keep cutting their own throats. The Volt was the sole car that they claimed themselves would be the one to turn GM back into a real lean mean fighting machine. AND NOW WERE TOLD THE COMPETITION (AH ha ha - A funny thing happen..) MIGHT OF SOMEHOW CAUGHT WIND OF GM's NEW VOLT Hybrid (reverse Hybrid) and have been quietly building their OWN "VOLT" that will out perform the Chevy Volt.

OR, are we seeing the same thing that GM did in the 90s with their Electric car that everyone loved to drive and it hardly cost anything to drive, yet GM forced 99% of those cars to be crushed. They would not sell the car to anyone at any price. The EV1 is no more. Could we be seeing that all over? Could this car REALLY BE the 230 MPG car GM claims? It sure could shake up a few key industries. But, whom ever said they would do just like the did the EV1 electric car was spot on right!

As much as I defend GM, I mostly defend their union workers. I may NEVER understand GM'S MANAGEMENT. They take tons of tax payers money in many different ways and still do not produce a viable car. I wonder how long this CEO will last? I wonder how long they will stay in America? See, I figure GM could break-down all of their companies and sit up shop in China and they might even beat a few other car companies. Anything short of that it seems they will do anything to give themselves a long slow death. I know some here hate GM for actions of the past, but I now have issues with today's GM. If they fail to bring The Volt to market that will mean they took not only the bailout-low interest loan, but they also took buhoos of Federal Grant Money to make The Volt, which as of now they tell us the competition could likely beat their target day and the Volt will not be able to compete with whatever it is they got wind of from their competition. Shucks it might even be Ford.-

Great job GM! Can ya please screw up another one on the Federal dime? GM, why did you not figure on the competition not standing still while you go from up to 5 years from paper to the production line? Are these empty threats? How long were you going to wait until you expected the nice folks in Japan to take your Volt idea and build upon it? Or even Ford perhaps?

My uncle and my father put in 30 years in their plants. My dad timed it perfectly. My uncle was laid off a lot, but he finally managed to get his time in, just in time to have most of his retirement slashed, along with his health care all because GM's managers can not seem to be able to see the obvious, and the worse part of it, I AM A CHEVY FAN! I WANT GM TO WIN. But what can I say when they get a large low interest loan (bail-out) which gives the Government control over GM (which has many in the UAW VERY upset with OUR PRESIDENT, can ya believe that?? but gee it could be so much worse for them!) and the one car they have hyped forever has been put together with FEDERAL GRANT $$ and now that they do not seem to be getting their last planned GRANT, they tell us the car may never make it to market, and by the way- the competition just might be working on an even better car based on our ideas and get it to market well before us. Is that not just FUNNY? Awe the humor... good ole hysterical crazy laughing humor! :eek::eek::(:(:mad::p:p:turtle:


GM admits Volt doubts - Autocar.co.uk

Chevy Volt nabs shaky 230 MPG rating, might not ship in 2010

Reading that source you provided, it sounds like GM is basically throwing a temper tantrum in order to get more government money. Insted of, "...or I'll hold my breath 'till I turn blue!" it's, "...or I won't produce your precious hybrid! So there!"

I would be very doubtful if GM followed through on that: first off, the amount of "face" they'd lose would be STAGGERING; second, they need that 230 MPG to give them enough CAFE "wiggle room" to put out high-margin SUVs.

Write it down: this is a negotiating ploy to get more government funding. The Volt *will* come out, hell or high water.

I still think they should simply dust off all the tooling for the '98 Metro and crank them out again. They'd be 90% of the way there to where they should be. :rolleyes:

GM only bought the Metros to get their CAFE up without affecting the rest of the company. I think '93 is the year to repeat. And they should un-crush the EV-1s.

When given the choice of which foot to shoot themselves in, Fritz Henderson took a moment to think. His reply? "We'd like to still be able to walk, so let's put the bullet in our head to make sure our feet come out okay."

Well after seeing the big guy pick on corbin (who actually got something to market, and it is all electric, two things GM is not currently capable of), I'm feeling a LOT more whogivesacrap about GM, stock indexes or not.

I agree with your evaluation.

[rant]
But you know what? I'm sick of this dinosaur company sucking away my tax dollars. Pardon my language, but screw 'em. If they still can't survive without EVEN MORE of our tax dollars, then they shouldn't survive, period. Let them sell off the technology and production centers to a viable company that will actually use them efficiently.

[/rant]

i said it before and ill say it again...

I've lost all respect for GM until they bring back the EV1 or something equivalent (and i wouldn't call the volt equivalent)... we should have let them fold when we had the chance.

This is GM we're taking about. Why are you surprised?

And putting even more of Michigan out of work. We already lead the nation in unemployment.

I love my old GM cars, wouldn't trade them for anything. But GM sure has made some asinine decisions.

Things are tough all over, unfortunately. I don't think it's the responsibility of the rest of the country to make sure people can have jobs in Michigan.

Not necessarily. After all, people are still going to buy cars, and those cars will need to be built. So the factories will need to be somewhere, even though they have names like Honda and Toyota (or perhaps Tesla, or something Chinese) on them. And why not in Michigan?

As for the OP comment about posting plans & schematics of the Volt, there's nothing really secret, or even that innovative, about the basic design. That was done back in the '70s. Some of it was even done by GM: if you search, you can find info on their "Stirlec" hybrid, a design much more advanced than the Volt.

GM does not want to build electric cars. They will find any and every excuse to avoid it. When the volt concept came out I predicted the volt would never hit the showroom floor for outright sale and I stand by that.

Having said that I hope I'm proven wrong.

Look at the date on this letter and read the contents.

Basically they told me to give them my idea, and then they would decide if they wanted to consider any financial agreement.

Anyone here want to give me their house or their car, and then I will decide what it is worth?

Now just over 5 years later they are getting my money, most of which was a payoff to the unions so they would have any retirement fund whatsoever.

They should have spent an hour of their precious time and listened to someone who has a good idea.

GM was the first US manufacturer I tried to contact.

The Volt was a joke from the beginning. California just basically told all the BEV vehicle manufacturers they have to warranty their batteries for 10 years.
No Lithium battery will last that long, so their only option is to charge you in advance for the number of batteries they calculate it will take to make it to the 10 year point.

If GM had listened in 2004, they could have a head start on beating the rest of the world to the real practical hydraulic hybrid. You could be driving one today.

Let em drown in their own arrogance. I would still like to see any US manufacturer actually sit down and listen to me, but you can bet they will have to sign a non disclosure agreement.

It doesn't matter to me now after 5 years of trying to get one of them to listen. I may just go to the Chinese and give them the technology, they will steal it anyway.

regards
Mech

Nice to see the interest in this subject.

Oh, I did not post the more informative, and the original source of this information which can be found here: GM admits Volt doubts - Autocar.co.uk

Old Mechanic: Some of that money went to bond holders if I'm not mistaken, and I'm always hearing from the retirees how they feel they got the shaft and the working guys got a better deal. This makes sense because the retirees can not vote in union matters, only the UAW members that are still working for GM. It's funny to me to hear both sides on this. On one side we often hear from people that claim the union bought the President etc...

And, I know for a fact the retirees mostly feel they got the shaft and many openly express their anger in the UAW newspaper which I have read. Many GM Retirees express their anger at The President. Shesh, please nobody dig any deeper into politics than me, because I wold hate to see this thread go bad..... It's just strange when I hear voices from opposite sides both expressing anger to the same person in Politics (or such members). Wow is this country ever more polarized than ever, I feel like it's 1861.

Great points about this being a ploy by G.M. for more money. You can bet the UAW is full of anger right now, they seem to feel betrayed by everyone and many voice their anger in publications. What top levels of management at GM says very well could be a ploy. Many wonder why they were in bankruptcy for like 60 days! How many businesses go in and out of bankruptcy so quick? Many think it was a ploy to get more from the union. I can tell you first hand that it appears many of their members are just as angry as the average taxpayers are at GM. GM is almost as popular as Health Insurance Companies right now, it seems even their "friends" do not trust them fully. And I happen to be one of those guys.

Peace.

So after soaking up how many millions (or is it Billions?) from the govt for PREVIOUS econo programs like PNGV and whatever the successor was, GM is saying we still don't know what to do until we get that next grant?!? :mad:

GM has been relying on the greatness built by their predecessors for waaaaay to long. Now they can go to ****; they are no longer worthy.

...+1,000% or maybe a commercial version of the SunRaycer they helped develop and ran across Australia! We got lots of SOLAR photons here in Arid-zona.

23:) MPG

Seriously guys... why is everyone so surprised lol

We need to go up and punch GM's CEO in the face.

Because of all the people that have been tossed out and replaced, THATS why.

Funny, though... in real world equivalency, the MPG rating per cost for all fuels involved brings the Volt down to more real-world numbers... of course, even if you only consider gas mileage, the numbers come down per mile you drive after 51.

Take a 3 hour road trip on the highway, you'll probably get closer to 40MPG... maybe 50. Unless you stop every 38 miles to recharge for several hours via the gas station's external plug-in... which they might not be happy about.

Of course, doing that would turn that 3 hour road trip into a 3 week excursion.

I'm not surprised. I'm impressed. Negatively, of course, but impressed none the less. I still blame America at large. Not just the Gov't. We just don't learn, and they all take advantage of it.

Yep, damn impressed I am. It's taken so long to get to this point, the frog just ain't gonna jump out of the pot...

Yeah, but 40 MPG is good. The volt is still a good concept, just too damn overpriced.

Since when? 40MPG was doable just a few years after mass production of gasoline vehicles...

Hell, we had an electric car here in America that many years ago... same perception as today - not enough range. Back then, they'd take the average person around town all day on a charge.

I think your missing the over all picture here. We all know that big corporations spy on each other all of the time, no matter what the laws are. But why saturate the car news about The Volt gonna kick some butt... when it gets here...

And then keep delaying the date so the competition can get there first so they can throw their hands up and go "I'll be Dawg, they beat ars to it.. huh.. Back to the old drawing board, and we better fill out those Federal Grant forms again so we can pay for all of this bean coffee or else were gonna have to fire another 100,000 Michigan workers."

In the end it does sound like a ploy for more taxpayer money. There telling us that the competition has MORE $$ to spend on R&D than General Motors has and they may very well beat GM to the finish line- BIG DEAL. It's called Running a Business, not Running Back to Washington. I love my car, I want to see people in Michigan put back to work (I was raised in/near Flint Mi), but it's like biting your nose off to spite your face every time you read about what GM's managers are doing or saying in the news.

However, to be fair, I suspect those grants are giving out to ANY car company that qualifies for it. As to why GM could still qualify for more help is beyond me.

So if anyone from GM is reading this thread I hope you can recognize your friends from your foes. Many of us do not hate you GM. We just want you do DO SOMETHING RIGHT! (I do not speak for all, but it appears at least a few of us like your cars) Now can ya just manage the books for awhile without firing more Michigan workers and building new plants in China and Mexico? Is it really that difficult?

Put me down as one that says "40MPG is good". But we have lagged far too long getting our cars up to much higher standards, we have been stuck too long with thinking 20MPG is great mileage, and I know a whole lot of people that are PROUD to claim they get 20MPG. Man.

I can get 250 mpg out of a scooter, but it won't be as safe as a car. My Geo gets 55 mpg, but it isn't comfortable or safe on the highway. I can't really explain what i'm saying i'm too busy with schoolwork.

Hello -

I find this interesting :

GM admits Volt doubts - Autocar.co.uk
The reason is, I have read speculation that the Prius and Insight came into existance out of fear of also being left behind :

Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, I don't know what the real-world cost would have been to bring these cars to market. The Insight was sold at a loss, so a "first gen" of these cars may have done the same.

It's sad to think that the Big 3 might have scared the competition into beating us to the punch.

CarloSW2

Sure, but to belabor the obvious, if most of your driving is 3 hour road trips, you don't buy a Volt. If most of it's 20-40 mile daily commutes, you might.

That's not even considering further improvements, as for instance the Stirlec, where you have a highly efficient but unsuited to direct automotive use Stirling engine driving the internal generator.

No, that's cool.

I know you can get insane mileage with a scooter, but there were CARS back then, comparable to the other models in the era, that could obtain nearly 40 MPG, and some were even better. Ask Jay Leno. He'll tell you. ;)

Yes, you've definitely made the obvious point, there. The problem is that, while WE may not do those things, others will.

We need to remember that we are not the norm, here. The average person lacks the common sense (obviously) to ascertain that it may be more efficient to drive something else for different types of trips. I can quantify this by putting my Father in Law in the line of sight. This guy can't even figure out that it takes him just as long to walk to the store next door as it does to drive!

I am sorry because I love the idea of an electric car. I drive 30 miles one way to work, I actually work for the local power company and could recharge one at work. I drive a 91 Metro with an economy cam, +10 gear from 3-tech and a 3.79 final tranny. I am installing a/c to make my summer commute more comfortable. I am also installing an 89 xfi computer to this car to see if it helps. June - September 3200 miles average 52.4 mpg. not too bad for a car running E-10 gas. My car payment is so my wife can drive our 06 Navigator. Last trip to Reno got over 19 mpg. I can't justify a BIG car payment for a non-existant electric car.

It's funny how a lot of TV ads have been advertising GM cars getting better fuel mileage than one of their biggest competitors.............. Toyota

Gm probably figures...........

"Why build an EV when we are already beating the competition in fuel mileage?"

...as my Dad would say: "...that's great for TODAY, but what are you gonna do for TOMORROW?"

...one (hyphenated) word: short-sightedness.

As an American, I want my instant gratification and I want it now. There is nothing else.

...give me ALL my tomorrows TODAY, or I'll tell Daddy (Uncle Sam).

[QUOTE
Gm probably figures...........
"Why build an EV when we are already beating the competition in fuel mileage?"[/QUOTE]

Johnny is exactly right. That's the same reason you will never see a flex-fuel hybrid. Both flex-fuel and hybrids bring up a company's CAFE numbers, so they only do what is needed by law to make the numbers work.

One part of GM fought like crazy against the EV-1, while another part was building it.

Car culture and our political environment have changed enough that I think EVs will take off this time around, but we shouldn't be shocked by big companies FAILING to produce them.

My frustration with the big manufacturers to produce ANYTHING EV is what lead me to build my own EV.

Guess what? It cost about $1300 to build. I paid cash for everything (no car payments or interest!) and had lots of fun learning how to make it all work.

Yes, it has daytime running lights, airbags, all those things. Yes, my wife will even drive it. Yes, it uses lead batteries, not some fancy futuristic/non-existant ones.

It's surprising how frustration can become a fuel for creativity. Still, I would much rather try something new, and at least work for positive change, than sit around, feeling powerless, and then disappointed when someone ELSE doesn't do something (such as produce the Volt)

...classic battle of Lawyers vs. Engineers!

...second, only to, battle of Engineers vs. Bean-Counters!

I say screw 'em all, do your own thing. :)

Legally, you can copy any patent for personal use. Don't sell it or distribute it, and you're safe.

If you wanted to build your very own VOLT, you could probably find the measurements and abstract information necessary to do so through the patent office and GM's PR releases. It would cost you some money, but it may be worth it to you, if you really want a VOLT, because it's probably the only way you'll get one.

Frankly, I'd rather build the EV1. Beautiful, they are.