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suspectnumber961 06-29-2012 08:40 AM

What's the advantage to driving an electric car?
 
Global Warming Emissions and Fuel-Cost Savings of Electric Cars (2012) | Union of Concerned Scientists


Nationwide, EVs charged from the electricity grid produce lower global warming emissions than the average compact gasoline-powered vehicle (with a fuel economy of 27 miles per gallon)—even when the electricity is produced primarily from coal in regions with the “dirtiest” electricity grids.

In regions with the “cleanest” electricity grids, EVs produce lower global warming emissions than even the most fuel-efficient hybrids.

EVs charged entirely from renewable sources like wind and solar power produce virtually no global warming emissions.


http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/images/...ngs-fact-3.jpg

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So....if you could buy a small econo-electric for $13K...you could have a FREE CAR?

MPGranger 06-29-2012 12:56 PM

ever watch the documentary "Who killed the electric car?" Dealerships make very little money on a vehicle sales and make their profits on servicing. ICE engines need: air filters, fuel filters, oil filters, engine oil, coolant, emissions and all the pumps and tubes associated. (Ironically the oil companies own most of these companies) While Electrics and ICE also need: tires, brakes, windshield wipers, wiper fluid, tranny repair. Electrics would be a lot simpler to maintain so less money from their money maker. The only way a dealership would survive on selling electrics is to bump up the initial price so turn that 13 grand to 26 for an entry level electric.

UFO 06-29-2012 01:58 PM

Looks pretty obvious to me. If I lose interest in this biodiesel hobby, electric is where I am headed.

Ryland 06-29-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suspectnumber961 (Post 314417)
So....if you could buy a small econo-electric for $13K...you could have a FREE CAR?

Some people would say that you would have a free car, so sure!
My electric car, after 5 years of ownership and updating a ton of stuff on it that was stock/30 years old, I figure I have around $6,000 invested in it including buying the car, so does that mean that it's better then free? sure, I also save a ton of time by not stopping at gas stations, I figure that my $900 battery pack for my electric car is costing me about the same over it's 5-6 year life span as the exhaust system and oil changes on my gasoline car cost me, oil changes alone cost around $50 per year because I use full synthetic oil, the differential in my electric car takes a single quart of gear oil and that is good for many years.

I don't think I'll ever buy a new car, nor will my parents, but I talked them in to buying a $6,000 used electric car as well and they are charging it off of wind and solar, it's clean, it's quite, it works.

ksa8907 06-30-2012 12:21 AM

Don't mean to kill your buzz, but how much damage is done by mining all those heavy metals and refining them into batteries?

NeilBlanchard 06-30-2012 07:23 AM

What heavy metals?

niky 06-30-2012 08:01 AM

That's a bit of old, alarmist alarmism from the same people who estimated a Prius would last only a third as long as a Hummer, despite many Prii lasting up to and beyond the 300k mile mark.

Electrics cost less over a lifetime than most gasoline cars, but that 13k saving is roughly equivalent to, or less than e price premium of an electric over a regular car of e same capacity and performance.

Earnings via service only matter to dealerships. I've worked with and interviewed people involved with electrics on the distributorship level, and the price premium for electrics is hugely determined by the cost of their batteries. It's the biggest problem all electric start-ups have.

No conspiracy not to sell here. You could build an electric sans batteries with the same performance as a gasoline car for not tyat much more money... Only to have to be faced with the decision over whether you want to turn buyers away due to piddling range, or due to the thousands of dollars required to buy a battery pack with decent range or due to the huge bulk of the big, cheap lead acids you're using instead of ungodly expensive lithium ions...

Ryland 06-30-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksa8907 (Post 314537)
Don't mean to kill your buzz, but how much damage is done by mining all those heavy metals and refining them into batteries?

I've talked to reps from the company that made my batteries along with reps from the USA's largest battery maker and they recycle the batteries that are returned to them as cores inside the USA (each of my lead acid batteries has a $20 core charge/value) and because around 98% of an old lead acid battery is recycled in to a new battery (2% is dirt and slag) the only need for new material to be added is to make up for any increase in demand.

Lithium batteries have a larger core value, around $500 for an 800 pound battery because the metal inside is worth more then lead, but in a lithium battery there is only 7 pounds or so of lithium, the rest is copper, aluminum, plastic and carbon, all of those get recycled and turned in to new batteries, copper and aluminum have the largest environmental impact in the making of lithium batteries, but people seem to be ok with the 100's of pounds of copper wiring in their house and the 100's of pounds per year of aluminum soda and beer cans that are recycled every year, so why get upset that these same metals are being used in a battery to power a car?

I'm also not sure if I would agree with the "ungodly expensive lithium battery" comment, my $900 battery pack in my car that as I already said compares in cost to oil changes and exhaust system in my gasoline car, could be replaced with a lithium battery pack that would last 4 to 5 times as long and cost me 2-3 times as much as the lead acid pack did, lithium batteries have dropped in cost a great deal, to the point where people are buying them and putting them in cars that they are using and coming out with a battery cost that is lower then gas engine maintenance costs on a gasoline car.

MPGranger 06-30-2012 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 314564)
Earnings via service only matter to dealerships. I've worked with and interviewed people involved with electrics on the distributorship level, and the price premium for electrics is hugely determined by the cost of their batteries. It's the biggest problem all electric start-ups have.

No conspiracy not to sell here. You could build an electric sans batteries with the same performance as a gasoline car for not tyat much more money... Only to have to be faced with the decision over whether you want to turn buyers away due to piddling range, or due to the thousands of dollars required to buy a battery pack with decent range or due to the huge bulk of the big, cheap lead acids you're using instead of ungodly expensive lithium ions...

But where would you buy such a vehicle? My point was that there would have to be a dramatic restructuring of the retail vehicle sales system. Current Dealerships rely on servicing to stay operating, they will sell electrics at a higher premium because they know that they will not be making that money elsewhere. Eventually the market will balance out as companies try to underprice their competitors. But remember, businesses make their profits, whether they sell snake oil or what the consumer wants. Well there is another option, businesses waste government grants like all the electric companies failing under the Obama system. Sustainable? Not yet! LOL

niky 06-30-2012 12:02 PM

New cars require not too much in the way of maintenance. With variable oil change intervals, those periodic maintenance earnings are few and far between. And then there are the people who come in for the first PMS interval, then do it themselves afterwards.

An electric is not necessarily completely maintenance free. There's brakes, controllers, suspensions... And if you package it right... say, lease-and-swap batteries... then the dealer can make money off of recharging and reconditioning batteries.

Then there's the straight lease and car-sharing models... Wherein the customer doesn't even have to think about maintenance at all, and you fold all the costs and earnings into the monthly lease.

You can buy karts, motorbikes, UTVs and the like from sellers who don't make any further money off of you until you order parts for something that breaks... So why not cars?

The dealerships don't wag the manufacturers. As we've seen over the past few years, after the meltdown, it's the other way around...


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