Wheel bearing grease
 

I'm changing my rear brakes on the TDI, and will also replace the wheel bearings while I'm there.

What in your opinion would be the best grease to use from a rolling resistance standpoint? I don't mind having to repack the bearings now and then. I'll need something that performs well during our cold winters.

Thanks,

Martin

You need to use wheel bearing grease. The reason...it is designed for high temps and any other grease will turn into a liquid when the bearings get hot and they do get hot.

How hot do they get?

I would normaly use a grease like this one

The temperature range for this grease is -22F to 250F

But could I get away with this one instead?

It is rated for -58F to 230F and has much better friction properties. Since my daily commute is only 7 miles and we get attrociously cold winters, my bearings dont get usually very hot. However I sometimes do couple hours highway trips in the summer too, but the ambient temperature never gets really higher than 90F.

Subscribed... nothing to offer, but interested in the advice.

I have found an SKF document stating that both those greases are compatible. Could I just mix the 2 and come up with an hybrid grease? Or just take the LGMT3 (the standard one which is a third less expensive than the low temp LGLT2) and mix a bit of low viscosity oil with it?

I work for one of the biggest industrial components distributor in Canada. I just wanted to see what people have to say here before I talk with one of our engineers.

ditto
 

I agree,
I appreciate the effort but this will be immeasurably small advantage
but there is potentially a lot at stake - like not rolling - that has to hurt FE
I would go with the first one and call it good.

sounds risky to mix this sort of thing - it will not give you an average viscosity
you are likely to just get two lubricates still separate but swimming together

also when considering temp is not just rolling friction temps.
It is the temps generated you emergency stop from highways speed
or if you have to ride the breaks a bit on a long decent in the mountains.
you sure don't want to it to start drooling out the side of the bearing :eek:

I would like to hear what an engineer in this area thinks they can do for you
----Especially if it is Moose Drool :thumbup:

tasdrouille, given your location (Great White North) and driving habits (modest trips) I'm 99% sure you'd be fine with the slightly thinner wheel bearing grease ... even if it doesn't mention automotive applications.

I'm a charter member of BITOG and have dealt with lubrication topics for nearly a decade. The thinner stuff should be fine. If you are repacking these yourself, I would monitor them every couple months and look for signs of leaking. If the grease stays in place, I'd clean and inspect them in 25,000-35,000 miles just to be sure everything’s doing OK.

Just remember lithium is a soap and lithium-based greases WILL foam-up and wash out if allowed to come into contact with water spray. So, sealing is critical and even a minor leak will allow moisture into the bearing and degrade the grease quickly.

BDC, I would imagine sphere-shaped bearings would have less friction … as the contact surface would be a lot less than roller/needle bearings … but I’d be concerned about load and the spheres scoring the contact surfaces.

Frank Lee has got it right, though. I’ve seen systems for trailer bearings that allow you to use a bath of gear oil to lubricate the bearing unit (instead of grease). It’s supposed to reduce operating temps, increase unit life AND increase fuel economy.

Remember, grease is a lubricant mixed with a hard soap/paste to try to keep the lubricant in place. If you are able to keep lubes (such as gear oil) in place without resorting to drag, you are better off (regarding rolling resistance) without the solid compounds. Using Google quickly, I was unable to find one of these systems as an example. :(

My pick … if I could have any grease in the world? Schaeffer grease:

Schaeffer Lubricants | Heavy Duty Moly Grease

#274 Moly E.P. Synthetic Plus Grease – NLGI #0

Better low temp and high-temp performance. If Schaeffer prints it, I'm willing to believe it. ;)

Thanks for the useful and interesting replies.

Our engineers looked for a suitable moose droll based grease, but the pour point of the base fluid is way to high for the application...

As others mentioned, the grease is apparently no big deal. Nonetheless, I went with Timken synth industrial grease which is NLGI grade 1.5 with a -50F to 356F operating temp range and a very high viscosity index. So it may make a small difference on short cold start trips. I chose this specific one mainly because I can get it for cheap.

I use Chevron NLGI2 on everything I grease. It's the same stuff my dad uses to grease up everything on his work truck ('79 Kenworth W900). Works fine year 'round here, but I did have one occasion where it didn't really want to pump through the gun, but it was also like 17 degrees out (tool room where the grease gun was isn't climate controlled).

Sounds like a good choice - synth for those of us whose cars see a wide temp range makes sense.

Can I get some of that from you when I stop in Quebec in September? :) I'd repack my bearings. I doubt there's synth in them now.

Frank,

Maybe I'm just dumb, but how did you do it? I would like to try it someday as I can get cheap Chinese bearings and races for 5$ per side. How do you get the oil in? Can I just drill a hole in the hubcap and install a plug?

Thanks

Sure! I have more than I'll probably ever need.

I am not one to speak brands.. BUT. I do have a 22 year old car, and many others all work done by me...
valvoline synthetic high temp wheel bearing grease. Phenomonal. It even took a few DAYS after getting through regular stuff to gain a viscosity you could feel in the gas pedal. Every car I have slapped it into. This grease also reveals bearing metals that were dry (they usually soak them wherever they came from but soemtimes its not enough) if the metal was not soaked enough, it looks like the grease disappears, after a run of some miles, days whatever,and I refill again. worth the process as of today. I found nothing else even close to it...

Tas: I'm embarassed to say I never got around to repacking my bearings with the grease you brought to the ship. It's on the list though.

havent tried the valvoline grease, but I have heard great stuff about their transmission oils. I have used mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing grease (its a cool purple color) and its worked pretty well. havent grease a wheel bearing with it, since mine are sealed and when they go bad or get slow, I just get new ones.

My day job is art a investment casting company and we have some water resistant grease I used in the Toothbrush Special. They use it in a high preasure waterblast cell, so I figured it would work pretty good for wheel bearings, so far so good

I took some 90w gear oil and mixed it with the grease just to make it a little bit more maulable and used it on a bike tire and that thing just kept spinning after i spun the wheel it took like 2-3 minutes for it to stop i think??(it was 8 years ago) i was just wondering what would happen if u added a little bit of lucas to the grease?? maybe make it a little bit runnier but still stick?? i,m going for a medium between a paste and a liquid that still adhers to the barings

I've been running one of my Coupe's rear wheel bearings in 90 wt. ONLY- no grease at all- for I think 9 years now as a test. Seems to work pretty good.

Hey Frank,
thats very encouraging info, i wonder does anyone have a procedure for changing the grease in their bearings. If i dont do this mod myself i can at least put the info in the wiki.

I am a little hesitant to do it myself as i am not sure of the reliability and if something goes wrong it will be a fairly impressive failure.

frank do you have any feel for how much improvement different bearing grease got you. anyone know if someone has done a before and after coast down test or something like that.

Bearing losses are considered by SAE to be so slight, they aren't included in drag calcs. That said, I like the idea of minimizing them. I aim to try this on my bicycle some day.

I've not attempted a coast-down or anything further than spinning the wheels when the car is jacked up. I will say that the oiled wheel spins much longer than the greased one on the other side in that- ahem- "test".

I don't think it would show up on any gaslog. The resolution isn't fine enough. But it makes me feel good so perhaps there's a placebo effect...

Some semi-trailers are equipped with bearing oilers. From what I've read, reliability and longevity are improved. I wouldn't worry a bit about reliability unless for some reason the oil all leaks out.

Here in the land of -40 deg F, I like to think the bearings are happier when cold with oil.

All I did was mod the grease cap; I cut a 1" hole in it and installed a plastic CaPlug for filling and level checking. Everything else is as it was.

Oil is probably messier than grease. I say "probably" because since I installed the mod 9 years ago, I've not had it apart. Haven't even checked the oil level. The most I've done is give the wheel a spin if I have the car up on jacks, and feel the hub after a trip to see if it's hot, if I think of it.

I"m going to be replacing a wheel bearing soon, figured it was a good time to try some new grease (on the '94 F150). Any recommendations for anything better than the o'reilly house brand?

I was also early on BITOG. This guy has a depressingly long history of being accurate, correct, clear, etc.

SCHAEFFER's products -- all of them -- are highly recommended.

.

O'Reilly house brand will do the job, for sure it will protect the bearings and as far as rolling resistance probably just as well as anything.

Don't bet on it. The subject is certainly marginal, but some conditions call for better supplies for the car/truck. Grease ain't just grease when it counts.

For the wary, stay with recommended type.

No, really, I will bet on it.

For all vehicles (any type) under any/all conditions?

For whatever the can says it's good for.

I just replaced my 200,000 mile worn out front wheel bearings in my 1997 Corolla. 0 difference in mileage. I really doubt there will be an mpg difference among different grease types if changing the bearings did nothing other than fix that terrible noise my car would make around corners.

In fact, the guy at the performance shop where I had my bearings pressed on said that they don't even add any extra grease from what comes from the factory bearing. I added some store brand high-temperature bearing grease anyways.

for you I'm inclined to agree as you're down in TX... up here in OH temps get low enough that the grease can be an issue, I'm inclined to think

Well I don't know about -30 but on the other end of the spectrum I use what someone previously posted Standard pennzoil wheel bearing geese in my cars and trailers doing the standard packing of the bearings with the palm of my hand. I do this on my race car and on the trailer to bring it home never an issue I have friends big into off roading and they swear by it axles and bearing breaks are a way of life in 4x4 land. look elsewhere for a mod is my opinion reliability and safety should be the 1st considerations on such an important part.
If you don't agree then drive a trailer with a car on it and have a bearing go on a curvy mountain road. I change trailer bearings every 2 years regardless now(before I sold trailer). Bearing buddies are a nice add to a trailer also On a daily driver car I would stay stock, seen as the 1st set of bearings lasted over 100k miles you may need to change it 1 or 2 more times if you are lucky ...

A quick search for "wheel bearing grease freeze" gave me a few websites.

Rolling bearings handbook and ... - Google Books

Page 86 tells me that General Purpose grease can handle temperatures down to -40 F. High temperature grease can handle down to 0 F.

SKF Evolution Online > Axlebox > Lubricants > Transportation & logistics > Railways > Lubrication of bearings at low temperatures

"Most bearings will start to rotate eventually, even at –25 °C, if the engine or actuator driving them is powerful enough. In the MTAB train, the bearings were originally filled with grease designated for operation over a medium temperature range (–20 °C to +100 °C). As the locomotive starts to pull the wagons, the wheels may rotate intermittently or with extremely high friction. Heat is generated in the bearings, and the grease becomes heated as well. Now the bearings will indeed rotate. This heating-up process takes 60 seconds or less, still enough time to cause severe and irreversible damage to the bearings."

This article is talking about Sweden where temperatures go much lower than anything we experience in most of the continental US. (C versus F) In Canada I can see it might create problems.

Would someone from the north please do a simple test for us? Go outside on a very cold day, and jack your car up and see if you can spin the wheel by hand. If you can, "grease freeze" is not a problem and is definitely not hurting your gas mileage.

you'll have to wait until the next cold spell, it's *relatively* warm up here for OH in winter at 28*F

How often do U.S. road vehicles experience bearing failure from lube failure from low temps? I rest my case.

well it is now a moot point, new bearings went in today using o'reilly house brand grease

getting tyres switched soon, will replace bearing grease with Fuchs Silkolene PRO RG2 Synthetic Racing Grease 500g and report back any result, although won't be possible to do a proper before / after if both changes done together

I recently did some research on wheel bearing grease. Seems the Chinese Bullet Train was experiencing some bearing issues due to the high speeds of operation. They did a test of 30 top of the line bearing greases from around the world and found the Royal Purple High performance synthetic grease to be better than anything else. They lubed up their test train with the Royal Purple grease that had just topped out in their evaluations. The test train was then pushed to set a new speed record with no bearing problems.

I cleaned and repacked my front wheel bearings with the Royal Purple high performance wheel bearing grease and checked temperatures with an infrared thermometer for about a month. I found braking caused some major differences in wheel bearing temperatures. Around town, I always had high temperatures around town compared to my road trips. One road trip with almost no braking for 50 miles had the most even temperature from side to side. The variance in temperature was only 3 degrees that trip.

Even with the best grease, the standard bearings of today are just enough to get by. Do some research on ceramic bearings which are just beginning to make inroads into the automotive world. They are found in racing bicycles and motorcycles with great results. Ceramic bearings are part of our future and will save energy!

Years ago I used to work on logging trucks on weekends that were abused all week long on dirt roads. One thing I remember is that even then, the wheel bearings on the trailer axles were being lubricated in an oil bath. We used a heavy oil of around 90 wt. to fill the housing. There was a clear heavy plastic window on the end of the axles to keep track of the oil level. The seals back then were the weak point and would need replacement, but the bearings seemed to last forever with the heavy oil for lubrication. I can see why heavy oil in wheel bearings can work well instead of thicker grease.

Somebody on here had a Festiva with oil bath hubs, but I apparently I don't have enough Google skills to find where he got them. I really wanted a set for the Black Widow, but gave up the search

If anybody knows how to get hold of them, I'd love seeing a link here!

Really? I never heard of anyone doing that on their car except me.