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WIKISPEED build for Electric Motor Module
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The WIKISPEED car is a modular design.
The present 'motor module' is an Internal Combustion Engine, a 1.8l Honda civic engine from 2006+. That is not on topic for the Ecomodder Fossil Fuel Free group, so ... This is not a build of the WIKISPEED car, at least not yet. This is a build of the Electric Motor Module for the WIKISPEED car (this replaces the ICE motor module with an electric drivetrain). This first posting will be updated regularly to contain the latest status of the build. Eventually, this message will have a bit of an index of posts. Post 3 - Links Post 15 - We have a plan. |
Are you going to use a kit car for the body and running gear?
Why the need for the massive 1.8L gas hog? What kind of battery did you want to use and what kind of motor did you want to run? |
Car and Body for WIKISPEED build
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The rest of the car is done, sort of. There is a car design available, but there are many people in small teams all over the world working to improve the design. The design is modular, so different teams each take a portion of the design. As the new designs are tested and revised, they can be incorporated into the standard package. Right now, you can purchase: - a prototype, called SGT01, assembled and ready to drive with an ICE engine module Read more about it here www.wikispeed.com/store There is a kit planned as well, where you purchase everything and assemble it yourself. Right now, it's more of a list where you purchase all of the pieces and they are shipped to you. The drawings for the custom parts are almost all available as Open Source from here. I say almost since there are delays in posting drawings after the changes have been added to the standard build. www.opensourceecology.org/wiki/wikispeed_SGT01 The rest of the parts are OEM Honda Civic parts and can be purchased from a number of places, but the prices at the WIKISPEED store are lower than most. Quote:
The car was initially designed to compete for the 2010 automotive X-prize. Besides the requirement of getting 100 mpg or better, it was a race. The fastest circuit time while meeting the 100 mpg criteria was the winner. I don't have all the history on the project - this is my guess based on the history that I do have. The Electric Motor Module that is the topic of this thread will initially be low power. The exact motor to be used is not decided as yet. The simulation team has asked for a power plant capable of delivering 50 HP so that the car can accelerate from ... I think it's 40 mph to 60 mph in 5 seconds? ... I can't locate the reference right now. It was one of the requirements for the X-prize to have a vehicle that people would want to drive. Quote:
The car presently weighs 1404 lbs, with the ICE module installed, all of the fluids for the ICE, and 4 gallons of gas in it. Since it is SO LIGHT I think it is an excellent start for an Electric Vehicle. I expect that the weight will rise a bit with the Electric Motor Module instead of the ICE module. Like every build, we have a tight budget, so this module design will begin with whatever can be sourced locally and almost free. As the design is firmed up and decisions are made, we'll see what we end up with. There is much work to be done to determine how many cells, and of which chemistry, can be fit into the Electric Motor Module. 40 x 40 x 20 is not a lot of space to hold the motor, transmission, batteries, controller and battery charger. |
Hello the Wikispeed car really interests me and how its opened sourced.
I have a large homemade CNC machine which I would like to design my own body for this car, but the price for a complete car is too much for me so I hope I could partner up with a local mechanic in the future to make our own. Ive seen the newly created Wikispeed Canada facebook btw. I read the chassis can be bought for $1000 at the Seattle home base, will you guys ever make a guide on how you got the cars you have for sale road legal? Also do you think the electric drive train could be (low spec, heavy setup) cheaper then the sourced out Civic one? Ideally I would like to purchase the Chassis and make it into a road legal hardtop convertible by using a $1000 donor for parts... proper a-pillars, windshield, suspension etc. P.S. I mixed a couple super cars designs on top of the Wiki Chassis which can be seen on YouTube called - WikiSpeed Chassis overlay |
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Your CNC machine would come in handy for all sorts of things, I'm sure. The car body is structural carbon fiber. This is not my area, but I think that it takes some practice to get it right. Quote:
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The car has a 5 star crash rating. I think the A pillars and windshield are fine for road legal. There are a number of prototypes on the road in the USA, licensed and insured. There are a few different rules in Canada, so it takes time to meet the requirements. The suspension is actually quite impressive on the WIKISPEED car. I think that the windshield is a stock item from a Miata - but I don't know which model or which year. |
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"That design decision was made a long time before I joined the project".
There is the problem there weren't really any new sub 1.8L engines in N. America till here with in the last 2 years. You would have to go with a late 1990s engine if you wanted sub 1.8L. 3 phase AC systems are not cheap, unless there is a cheap off the shelf unit I havent seen. Going AC costs something like 3 to 10 time as much as DC. |
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And I didn't realize they wanted it to be fast too.
A 1.8 in a car that size will really move. |
Electric Motor Module info
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Canadian registration
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As a first step, you would have to register your WIKISPEED car as a kit car in BC. The federal regulations are the same across Canada, but it appears that the provincial regulations differ. |
Thanks I will definitely look into this chassis and message for local members in the future when I have enough money saved.
On a side note I will never touch an electric car after reading the following web page which links to a New York Times article talking about someone who hired a professional to test EMF readings in their electric car and found the EMF levels high and unsafe. peoplespharmacy.com/2008/04/28/health-hazards |
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I cant say I am surprized. |
Regulations in Canada - some more information - VERY LONG POST
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We have a plan
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There will be one module, with a transmission, a transaxle, and the drive shafts that extend to drive the wheels. That is the common portion. For the AC version, a set of small batteries wired in series will provide approximately 240 VDC to a surplus AC drive, rated at 33A. The 5 HP AC motor will couple to the transmission with an aluminum coupler. The motor will be mounted on the transmission with an aluminum mounting plate. A motor support bracket will likely be fabricated from steel. For the DC version, a smaller number of larger batteries are wired in series and will provide approximatley 60 VDC to a DC controller that is rated at least 300 amps, still to be procured. The DC motor, still to be procured, will couple to the transmission with the same aluminum coupler as is used with the AC motor. The motor will be mounted on the transmission plate used for the AC motor with a different bracket. Several signals will be routed from the car to the module, regardless of whether it is a DC system or an AC system. These include: - a Start and a Run ingition switch - an accelerator analog voltage - an emergency brake signal - a brake pedal signal - an enable signal The Electric Motor Module will return several signals to the car: - energy remaining in the battery pack in a 'gas gauge' signal - running signal from the electric motor - a tachometer signal - a speedometer signal - a pack voltage indication scaled to drive the dash battery gauge - an ammeter signal - not sure how that signal will be transmitted or what gauge it will be displayed on That is the beginning of the plan. It will be revised as things progress. |
A DC donor
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- 120VDC 21 HP Dc motor (7 inch diameter) - Electric throttle pedal with mounts - Kelly KDZ 12400 144V, 400A controller with USB interface - 4 deep cycle lead-acid batteries - fuse - contactor - cabling A 5 speed manual transmission with motor coupler and motor mount looks good, but needs some work on alignment. The car needs a lot of body work to get back on the road ... but likely has issues with frame rust as well. Some other parts can be used - brakes, wheels and axles, perhaps some of the suspension and lighting. All in all, a good donor |
A short update
The Electric Motor Module is still only a wooden mockup, but the measurements are right.
A couple of small decisions: - the DC version will start with 5 batteries, the largest of the deep cycle cells that weigh about 70 lbs each - the batteries will be bolted to a ladder frame, and the frame will be bolted into the motor module - the batteries are one level high, taking up only 10 inches of the 18 inches of available height - the DC controller, the battery charger, and a junction box containing the fuses, contactor, shunt and a disconnect will be mounted above the motor and transmission. This will take up the room above the motor and transmission and make the controller, junction box, and charger accessible while the module is in the car. - the controller, charger and junction box are mounted on a ladder frame, which is bolted to the motor module as a separate sub-module - the AC version will start with 8 sets of 5 batteries each. These are recycled surplus 7 A-h UPS batteries (gel-cells). They will be connected in 4 series, 2 parallel (20 cells in series, 2 strings in parallel) - the battery packs are stacked 2 wide, 2 deep and connect to a central rack that uses the connectors built into the cases - the AC controller, the battery charger, and the junction box described above will be mounted above the motor and transmission. - the controller, charger and junction box are mounted on a ladder frame, which is bolted to the motor module as a separate sub-module |
A revision to the scope
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A couple of iterations have been done on the preliminary design. It should allow for more modular changes. I tried putting the excel 'sketch' inline and it does not show well so it is attached. The sketch shows a top view, an end view and a side view of the module. The end view shows the back of the module as it sits in the car. Batteries take up the 'front' half - this is a change from above. The motor and transmission take up the 'back' half on the bottom. Above the motor and transmission are the Charger, Big Junction Box, and Controller (Left to Right). My labeling is OK once you know where things are. No interfaces are shown (mechanical linkages, physical wiring, etc) Based on this modular design, the Battery Charger, the Battery Packs, the Electric Motor and the Motor controller are all supplied by the builder of the car - the user. The unit that ties all of these parts together and makes it into an Electric Motor Module is a Big Junction Box, or BJB. This is where present design time is being spent. The idea is that each of these parts - motor, battery pack, charger - is connected to the BJB in the middle. All wires go through the BJB. That's the basis of the modularity - each component has only 1 interface to deal with so it can be iterated or replaced with a functional equivalent with no changes to the rest of the design. To do that, the interface between each component and the junction box needs to be detailed. Some room will be reserved for optional interfaces to be added (the junction box will not be full) - like an analog brake signal for regenerative braking, not required but there will be terminal blocks and pins reserved in the connectors. The BJB contains an assortment of electrical parts that tie the components together. This includes contactors, fuses, test points, terminal blocks, switches, a shunt, and a lot of insulated covers. More details will be posted as they are worked out, including a connector to the 'rest' of the car. |
Interface between components
The Big Junction Box has started out as a roughly square piece of plywood. About 25 inches by 23 inches. Lots of room to mount parts, terminals, clamps.
This is the first cut at a list of signals into and out of each of the components. This is the interface. This list is intended to be the minimum, just the basics. Options can be added later. I'm not sure if the 12V accessory battery should be part of the 'car' or part of the 'Electric Engine Module'. Start with the accessory as part of the 'car'. Terminal numbers are arbitrary, beginning at A01. They are just labels. The list is terminal number, then description Car interface to BJB A01 Key Switch Run, 12V = run position. Use as switched power. A02 Enable Switch, 12V = OK to run (ebrake off, slap switch OK) A03 Throttle Position, 0 - 5V A04 12V, Power, non-switched A05 0 V, Ground Car Interface from BJB B01 None Controller from BJB C01 Key Switch Run C02 Enable Switch C03 Throttle Position C04 12V C05 0V, Ground C06 Charger connected, 12V = disable controller Controller to BJB D01 Main Contactor, 12V = turn on DC battery bank D02 Precharge bypass, 12V = precharge is complete, bypass the precharge resistor Charger from BJB E01 120VAC E02 Neutral E03 Ground E04 12V E05 0V, Ground Charger to BJB F01 DC+ F02 DC- F03 Charger Connected, 12V = Car plugged into a power source Battery Pack To/From BJB G01 DC+ G02 DC- Battery Pack from BJB H01 None Motor From BJB I01 DC+ I02 DC- |
First off, I would like to say that I love what the wikispeed project is doing. I think there is a lot of potential there, and would love to get directly involved, specifically with designing an electric drive module (email sent last week ;) ). I found out about Wikispeed recently from someone I met at a convention, and while as far as I can tell from publicly available information, I get the feeling it's not quite as far along as the promo videos seem to suggest, like I said, I think there is a lot of potential there, and I am excited to see what it can grow into.
I figured I would open with that, since I know a lot of what I am about to say is very critical and may rub someone the wrong way. That being said, if I am reading anything that was said incorrectly or incompletely, I am always happy to be proven wrong. To paraphrase a wise saying, when we fail/are proven wrong; that is when we learn. Having not heard back from the team yet (only sent the email on the 10th, so I'm not complaining, just keeping the brain working ;) ), I figured I would search and see if I could find anything on the 'two different electric drive module designs' that were mentioned in a few of the wikispeed videos...thus, how I found this thread. Reading through this thread, frankly, I was a bit disappointed. I completely understand the budget problems, but for a few different reasons, I think what seems to be the current approach is flawed. But some of that may be the idealist in me. First and foremost, there is a question you have to ask yourself. 'Am I designing this as a product or am I just trying to minimize costs?' Assuming that this is following the same line as the rest of the wikispeed project, I am going to say that this is intended as a product. Not now, but at some point down the road. I understand the budget concerns, I really do...but when the ICE module was being developed, did they just wander down to the local scrap yard and say "Oh, hey, look, that's an ICE. It's a 5HP 70cc dirt bike, but that'll work."? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing they found a commonly available, reasonably priced, appropriately powered, ICE engine, that they could purchase new, reliably and repeatably. That being said, scavenged parts are fine for prototyping, but in designing the module you must always keep in mind that the parts that will go into the end product will be very different than what you are using now..which ties into another point, but I'll go into that later. I would hate to see the result of this be a module that makes the car behave like an overgrown golf cart...if it is to succeed, IMO, you need to match or exceed what the ICE module is doing....which is not as hard as you might think. ;) And that leads me to my other initial point. I understand the reason for the $5,000 price point. I really do. You want to match the cost of the ICE module. But that is not realistic just yet...not if you want something reproducible that will actually behave like a car. Final price will really depend on what range you want to achieve...but there will be a certain, minimum, possible, price....and it will be a good bit above $5,000. Double that, and you might be able to make it. For example, an AC-50 with a 7602 and 38 CALB CA-60's, charger, and associated contactors/fuses/etc, would give you a nice, peppy, little, roadster. Wouldn't give you the same performance as the 130HP ICE, but it would still act like a car. You might be able to do that module for less than $10,000, and it would probably only give you about a 40-50 mile range. ..also, run the numbers before assuming that cooling will take up too much room...if you're used to lead batteries, it may shock you how small even the large-format LiFe batteries are (check out the chart in my sig for figures). Looking at your layout diagram, it looks like you're dedicating a full 1/2 of the module to batteries. You should be able to fit a good 30kWh in that space...enough storage to give the car probably about a 200-300 mile range (I'm guessing ~100-150Wh/mi, based on the mpg numbers). Granted, that would also be quite expensive, and larger than (imo) necessary, but it also means that with a smaller pack you would have a lot more space for other things. Ok, for more specific points. Regarding where to put the 12V aux battery, that should be determined by the rest of the vehicle design. If it is in the ICE engine module, it should be in the electric drive module. If it is not in the ICE module, it should not be in the electric drive module. If it is external, you will want to have a DC-DC converter in the electric drive module, with leads feeding out of the module, that will connect to the external 12V aux battery. If the aux battery is external, I would assume there are already such hookups for feeding off the alternator on the ICE module. The last thing that jumped out at me is the 'BJB'. I understand the idea behind it; you are trying to modularize the module itself, to make it agnostic to what controller/charger/etc you are using. This is admirable, but not, imo, practical at this point. Things are not yet sufficiently standardized in the EV world that this could be made to actually work well. For example, some controllers will accept two switching signals (ie, key/enable), some only accept one. Some accept a charger disable, some do not (I would just tie this one into the throttle feed, personally). Some have built-in pre-charge, some do not. Some have built-in contactors, some do not. If you are feeding the motor control lines through the BJB, you need to keep in mind the possibility for differing numbers of lines (series-wound DC or PMDC == 2, 3-phase AC or PMAC/BLDC == 3, sep-ex DC == 4). If you choose to use a BMS, you will have to account for it and its communication with the various parts. In my opinion, there is just too much variation between different component combinations at this time to make a BJB work. You could have everything from half a dozen different components, all needing to be interconnected, all the way to a single unit that handles everything, and any point on the spectrum in-between. As such, I would stop the universalization at the parent module level, and create a separate design for each electric drive module component combination. There can be some shared sub-modules, but everything will not be shared. For example, you could have battery modules of different capacities that are constant across all electric drive modules, and you could have the control components (controller, charger, etc) in one sub-module that is the same size/construction for all electric drive modules, but I think that level of universal modularization is as far as it is logical to go at this point in the industry. Lastly, I would encourage you to post this design log on other forums as well. EV's just aren't the primary focus of this site, so there won't be as much EV expertise as somewhere that does focus on them. My 2 cents, post it on as many relevant boards as you care to pay attention to; tap as wide a knowledge base as possible. diyelectriccar.com is a good one. I've heard good things about EVDL.org. elmoto.net is focused on motorcycles, but a large amount of knowledge overlaps. |
Another Update
A vendor has asked why the design uses one larger junction box, the BJB, instead of two smaller boxes.
Two smaller boxes would allow splitting the 12V signals like ignition ACC, Ignition RUN, Ignition START, Brake switch, accelerator switch, accelerator position, brake position, gas gauge, from the larger power signals connected to the charger, the batteries, and the motor. The simple answer is because no one thought of it. It makes sense to separate the 12V signals from the higher voltage and higher current signals for many reasons. To name just one, NPFA 70E suggests voltages above 50V have finger-safe guards installed. So the next iteration of the Big Junction Box will need new names. So far, Power Junction Box, PJB, and Signal Junction Box or SJB. That does not appear to conflict with anything else and will keep the labels separated. |
Long time between posts
I have gotten to a point. Time to document some of the process.
Splitting the Big Junction Box into a High voltage and a Low voltage box was an EXCELLENT idea. It has cleaned up the issues with large diameter conductors crowded beside small gauge conductors, small terminal blocks always getting in the way, breaking off the backplate when the larger cables are not tethered well ... many issues, one solution. I have been working on an AC drive for the sprint. It is as simple as I can think of right now. The power is not battery, but an extension cord. 120V from the cord through a 2000 va transformer to get 220V. This voltage fed into the drive. Drive sends 3 phase to the motor. Speed potentiometer gives a voltage reference 0 - 5 V for 0 - 60 Hz. Enable to the drive is a simple switch. |
January 10, 2013
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I'm VERY behind in posting updates. Updates were posted to the WIKISPEED team group, so I will use them to 'backfill' posts. When I'm caught up, I'll try to post details in this build log that are too detailed for the WIKISPEED group.
The High Voltage Junction Box (the Power Junction Box did not stick as a name) and Low Voltage Junction Box (again, Signal Junction Box did not stick as a name) are not split into two boxes as yet. They are in different sections, but they still share a single backplate. That's the first picture There is a sketch of the wiring diagram and schematic of the combined electric Junction Box. This is the second picture The first revision (untested - written after testing) set of instructions for interfacing to the electric Junction Box is attached. There are 'future' portions of the HVJB and LVJB described. |
January 31, 2013
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The DC option of the Electric Motor Module, as many have already suggested, is simply less money to develop. That's where the effort is focused for now.
Made some updates to the next version of the HVJB - or the backplate, anyway. Picture attached. Not complete, but close. Wire up the first separate version of the LVJB - again, just a backplate. Picture attached. Not complete, but close. Update sketches for wiring diagram and schematic. Pictures attached. Order 3 gigavac contactors On the todo list, but not yet done: The DC motor that I'm using has a separately excited field. That gives some control of the available starting torque of the motor, but it involves a more complex controller than I have. There is a requirement to turn off the armature current if there is a problem with the field current, so that the motor does not speed up dramatically and exceed it's safe operating speed. I have a circuit that should work .. - need to verify the operation of 'loss of field current' circuit But just in case ... safety first!: - install scatter shield (metal plate) between DC motor and cabin |
February 7, 2013
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This week I received the Gigavac contactors that I ordered. Pretty fast for something shipped from the US to Canada.
Before ordering lugs for the battery cables, I verified that the surplus cable I have is really 2/0 or #00. The local automotive store wanted to make sure, since the minimum order is 25 lugs #00 cable - I have about 30 feet of surplus cable - is rated for 185A continuous. But that's a bit less than the 4/0 or #0000 (my original, if somewhat paranoid, cable size) that is rated for 235A continuous. The #00 cable, besides the fact that I have some surplus cable, is also a better choice for use in the car. I'm told that 2 runs of #00 is easier to bend than 1 run of #0000. I guess I'll find out. There are separate part numbers for 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 holes in the lugs for #00 cable. They are also different widths so that there is enough contact area between the lug and the terminal post on the battery. And then there are two different 'grades' of lugs - light duty or 'battery' lugs and heavy duty lugs used for 'continuous' duty. The fork truck cables that I have seen use the 'continuous' duty. The 3 cables that I have (salvaged from a VFD cabinet) that have lugs crimped on are also 'continuous' duty rated. For comparison purposes, #00 light duty cable lugs are about $2.50 each and are stocked locally by one supplier. The heavy duty lugs are twice as much, at just under $5.00 per lug. Premade battery cables are $22 - $35 for 6 - 12 inch long cables with two ends, heat shrink on each end, etc. No one local stocks any battery cables of #00 size (3 cables total from 5 suppliers). #4 cable is the largest commonly stocked. And I went through the instructions for building HVJB and LVJB. There was a bit of an update but nothing worth attaching. |
Update from Feb 14 - Heat shrink, battery cables and wiring
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I got the Gigavac contactor ( received a while ago) installed in the bus bar holes that I made a few weeks ago, in the High Voltage Junction Box (HVJB). It's the second one, that connects the main battery power to the controller. That's the top part of the first picture that's attached. The contactor is/will be controlled by the key switch on the car.
I crimped connectors onto smaller wires to get the Low Voltage Junction Box (LVJB) done. The terminals that I wanted to use were difficult to mount on the backplate and required small labels to keep things straight. These small bolts work better. Its a bit of work to crimp on ring connectors, but it's secure and easy to follow, like a larger version of the schematic. I have updated the HVJB/ LVJB summary. It's up to Rev 2 but still does not contain build instructions. I think I repeated some stuff. It will require more work. It`s too big to attach as a .doc or as a .pdf ... so I guess I won`t post it? Battery cables from the chev sprint. I had 8 battery cables (sized #2) of 30 inch length from another project. These can be used between HVJB to controller, HVJB to battery pack, and between the battery packs. Then I have 2 cables with lugs (badly corroded, but salvageable) 72 inch #00 as well. So I'm down to several 6 - 8 inch cables that must be cut and assembled to connect the batteries in one pack to each other through fuses. I have an experiment to try. High quality electrically insulated tools have multiple layers that are different colors. So if you cut through the outter Red or Orange jacket, you see a bright Yellow beneath and know that the insulation was damaged. It needs repair or replacement. I have not been able to locate multi-layer heat-shrink ... but I have an idea. The base layer would be yellow electrical tape. Then I can use the Black heatshrink that I have a large roll of. And lastly, bright orange electrical tape. So I started with the wrench that fits the bolts on my fuses. I actually used two layers of yellow, then the heat shrink, then two layers of orange. It bulks the wrench up. And I need to figure out where it should end so that the wrench still works as a wrench ... I covered the whole thing and cut out the insulation that was in the way. That's not the right way to do it! I used a meter probe connected through a 6 ohm power resistor to a variac on the tape and an alligator clip on the other side to connect to the metal on the wrench. It passes! I boosted the variac as high as it would go, just over 140 VAC. All OK. Then I used all of the UPS batteries that I have from a previous project, in series to et 360 VDC nominal (about 375 actual). And it still passes! So I continued and added one small socket wrench, a small crescent wrench, two screwdriver shanks and two more wrenches. I didn't bother testing the insulation on each. The electrical tape wrapper states that one wrap is good for 1000 VDC. So I guess 4 layers is severe over-kill. I'm OK with that. The battery cable crimper and #00 lugs took a bit of experimenting to find out which dies would give me a good solid crimp. Everything on the dies is in square mm and the lugs are in cable gauge. The large Heat shrink fits well over the cable and lugs, it shrinks down OK. And works well as electrical insulation to 140 VAC (I didn't test to 360 VDC because I forgot). The already hard-to-bend battery cable is even less flexible with the heat shrink shrunk. That's not good news. Maybe I can shrink some if it in place in the car AFTER the cable is routed and bent? We'll see. The existing/recycled battery cables are not #00. They vary from #6 to #4. There were a few lugs on these cables that did not appear to be on very solidly. Another couple were crimped with a hammer crimper (it puts a big dent in the lug and the cable beneath). They were on solidly, but I used the crimper on them anyway. The largest heat shrink that I have fit over most of the lugs and was shrunk down to cover the bared copper (recycled cables) and the lugs up to the `flat part`that makes electrical contact with the battery terminals. It took some experimenting, but there were no big surprises. One things that I ought to mention - I understand why the crimp dies list sqaure mm instead of wire gauge! I had to use different sized dies on the light duty lugs and the heavy duty lugs for the same cables size. That made sense when I thought about it. Light and heavy are different in the thickness of the copper. BUT .. different heavy duty lugs (maybe different manufacturers?) ALSO required different dies. That one is a bit harder to swallow. The smaller heat shrink that I bought a bunch of seems to work OK over the crimped cable ends on the small gauge (#12 and #14) wire ... even when you forget to put the short tube of heat shrink on BEFORE you crimp the connector on. The heat shrink drops from about 3/8 diameter to be snug around a #14 un-stripped wire (insulation still on). Now if only I had found different colors of heat shrink for cheap ... |
Update from Feb 21 - Getting Things connected
The target for the week is to get all of the pieces arranged on my garage floor, get things wired together, and to make sure everything works.
The High Voltage Junction Box (HVJB) should have finger-safe guards on it to prevent accidental contact with the 72 VDC. It's just a chunk of plywood, sort of like a backplate, so I don't have a junction box to mount it into, either. The Low Voltage Junction box (LVJB) does not really need to be finger-safe, but there should be some sort of cover to prevent a dropped wrench from shorting things out. Again, it's just a chunk of wood. I have some clear and some tinted plexiglass of various sizes, most are large enough to soften and bend into U shapes to cover the bus bar. But that's a LOT of work and I don't think that this is the last time that I'll need to re-arrange parts to make additions. I`ll do that for the final design so that it looks neat and professional ... but I`m not there yet. As is my custom when I`m looking for inspiration when solving a problem, I went for a walk around the yard (OK, not quite the whole yard - the path through the snow that goes to each shed and the garage). I found some tempered glass, but that would be even MORE work to use. A few clear plastic jugs that could be forced into service if required ... but nothing that shouts - THAT`S IT... Then I tried the basement. My wife bought some clear plastic Rubbermaid containers that stack together. If I can make the HVJB and LVJB backplates fit into the bottom of a clear container, then I can use one cover and the whole thing is finger-safe! THAT`S IT! Minimum work is always nice. So I did a trial fit of the backplates, to stack it all together. A bit of a problem - the HVJB is long and narrow where the container is shorter and wider ... I guess there is SOME work required ... So I re-arranged the HVJB from battery pack + on the far left and B+ to the controller on the far right to more of an L shape. The B+ terminal to the controller comes out nearest you (bottom?). It still doesn't quite fit into the bottom of the container, but it will clear the top portion and allow the next container to stack inside - good enough. The LVJB was on a larger backplate but only required a 'trim' to have it fit into a clear container. The wiring between the HVJB, the LVJB and the controller will be quite short when it is installed in the Motor Module. I don't have a 40 inch wide plate to mount everything on. So I stacked the LVJB on the bottom, the controller in the 'middle' of the stack, and the HVJB on 'top' since it has a manual disconnect switch that I need access to. I set up the batteries in 3 sets of 2. A longer cable between - on one pair and + on the next pair. The connection between the batteries in each pair was + on battery 1 to a 6 inch cable to a fuse or a switch, then another 6 inch cable to the - on battery 2. A short *ALMOST* anywhere should blow a fuse .. or as close as I can get, anyway. Connecting up the high voltage cables was an issue - the clear container does not allow for the cables to enter and exit and sit correctly while still stacking ... and when I get the cables to fit onto the IN and OUT terminals, the cables won`t exit at all. SIGH! I guess the next iteration I'll change it around again. Maybe I can get all of the larger cables out one side and that will allow clearance? Or maybe I should find an easier solution? The LVJB cables can exit correctly, but the cable that I had lying around ended up being about 6 feet long, so I did not need to stack it beneath the HVJB. So I spread things out. I used 5 foot long cables to connect to the controller so everything is well spaced and easy to see. I can still use the clear containers to be finger guards when this all gets installed inside my test car. I'll post some pictures and a video of the setup working on the floor when I get the pictures trimmed down far enough to upload. The video will have to be a link to Youtube. |
Update from Feb 28 - Battery Cables, full test
9 Attachment(s)
The target for last week was to get all of the pieces arranged on my garage floor, get things wired together, and to make sure everything works. I got to that target this week.
The existing/recycled battery cables that I am using have corrosion on them. Some of them have a LOT of corrosion. The corrosion is a pretty good insulator, increasing the resistance in the cable connections. Increased resistance means increased heat as well as less power being delivered to the motor. So, I dug out of my painting supplies an emery cloth block. It looks like a sanding block, but the abrasive particles do not fall off when you are using it, so there is no residue of sand in the threads of your battery connections, or between the contacts of your cable lug and the battery post. Removing the corrosion is not difficult. Even the very corroded cables took only a few minutes to knock off the corrosion. I took video of it. It's pretty boring, even for me. I'll get sections identified that illustrate each type of connection and get it put together and posted ... but it's not a big priority for me. I knocked the corrosion off EVERY cable ... or every POWER cable I guess ... even the 'new' cables have corrosion. It's just not as easy to see. Alunimum, copper, tin, they ALL corrode almost immediately in air. Most of the time it is a thin coating, and that coating is a barrier to more air, so the corrosion stops. So EVERY time that you put in new cables, or when you take apart your cables to remove a battery or add another, change controllers, etc you SHOULD knock the corrosion off before putting the connections back on. This is only necessary for the high current connections like the batteries, controller and motor. This same effect happens to all of the rest of the cables used for signals and low power ... but the increased resistance does not lead to drastic issues with heat unless there is a lot of current going through the increased resistance. The emery cloth would not take off the corrosion inside the holes of the cable lugs - because it won't fit into the holes. There should not be current passing through that part of the lug, and then through the bolted connection, to the battery or controller or motor. But I put the cables on my bench and used a battery cleaner wire brush to scrape them out a bit. I don't think I'll do it every time. I think that the little wire pieces that break off the brush would do damage by being dropped into the rest of the electrical connections and batteries, or get into the bolt threads. The cables are important, but so are the connections on the controller, the motor, the HVJB and the batteries. The corrosion was knocked off ALL of these. The corrosion on the bus bars, terminal posts and fuses in the HVJB were knocked off during the assembly process some time ago, so the only parts that were re-cleaned were the terminals into and out of the HVJB. With everything arranged on the garage floor and the cables newly cleaned, I began connecting things together. I started at the load and worked backward. Motor terminals first, connected to the HVJB. Then the Controller connections to the HVJB. Make sure that the HVJB maintenance switch is open. Connect Pack+ and Pack - to the HVJB. From there, I switched to the LVJB. The cabling from the HVJB to the LVJB was done. Then from the throttle (potentiometer) and pedal switch (mini breaker) to the LVJB. Then the LVJB to the Controller. The final connection to the 12V battery was left undone. The ignition switch (mini breaker) is turned off. Wiring the pack together, I connected the longer cables between battery packs first. The packs are set up as three pairs. So HVJB pack - to pair 1 -, pair 1 + to pair 2 -, pair 2 + to pair 3 -, pair 3 + to HVJB pack + Then I added the connections between batteries with each pair. Pair 1 battery 1 + to a 6 inch cable to a fuse to a 6 inch cable to Pair 1 battery 2 -. Pair 2 battery 1 + to an 8 inch cable to a maintenance switch (turned off) to a 6 inch cable to Pair 2 battery 2 -. Pair 3 battery 1 + to a 6 inch cable to a fuse to a 6 inch cable to Pair 3 battery 2 -. Check voltages on the batteries. Each is 12.5 - 12.6V. Check resistance of connections and cables between batteries. Each shows 0.0 ohms, or less than my meter will read - this is a GOOD check, but not accurate. To get an accurate measurement I'd need to use a high current measurement device like a ductor. A ductor uses 5 or 10 amps of current through the probes so that the voltage drops can be measured more accurately, and the resistance calculated. They measure milli-ohms (thousandths of an ohm) and micro-ohms (millionths of an ohm). They are a bit expensive for a hobbyist. I'll sign a ductor out of the tool crib at work and take video of checking the connections when I get everything set up in the test car. I set up the video camera ( my phone), got my green laser pointer, and started taking video of each piece of the setup. Besides tripping on the tripod legs a couple of times (no damage to me or the phone) it went pretty well. After looking at the video, I think I'll set up some extra lighting next time. Now for the moment of truth - turn it on. I started by plugging in the 12V battery for the 'car'. Again, video camera set up and I went through 'turning on the ignition', verified the correct contactor in the HVJB closed, saw the controller turn on and give me some blink codes for low voltage and accelerator active. So I turned down the accelerator to 0. Then I turned on the maintenance switches for the pack and the HVJB, measured the pack voltage at the HVJB, then pressed the 'pedal' to close the contactor across the precharge resistor. The controller is OK to go, so I turned the 'throttle' and the motor started! There were a couple of problems - blink codes on the controller that I needed to look up before I continued, a bad crimp on the 12V 'car battery' so the controller would not turn on ... as well as a couple of checks that I did since things were powered up - measure the resistance of each contactor and each switch in the ON state ... those ARE on video somewhere but I did not go through the effort of taking parts of several videos and splicing them together. Most of the video that I have posted is from one file, with the silences and muttering to myself parts removed. I added a piece of tape so that the video would show the motor turning. I stepped on the motor the first time I started it since I don't have it on a mount and if it started with a lot of torque, it could 'roll away'. I think I did that in later videos as well, just to be paranoid. After some run-up testing with the smaller motor, making sure that everything was working as it should, I connected the Netgain motor. The first time it turned, I was surprised at how much throttle it took to start. There were SPARKS coming from the brushes ... and the motor did not sound as it should. I repeated the run-up, but not to a very high speed in case there was something wrong in the motor - I did not want to damage it, but I wanted to see if the sparking and the noise would go away with a bit of runtime. As it turned out, the sparking lessened but it was still visible. The noise did not get any better at all. So - what can be wrong? 1. The brushes may be new even though it is a used motor. If the brushes are new, they are not worn into the shape required to make good contact with the armature, so they spark a bit until they are worn in. There is a noise that the motor will make when this is happening, but the video that I have seen and listened to does not quite sound like this. 2. The brushes may be in backward. If someone worked on the motor that was not familiar with DC motors, the brushes DO fit backward and only a very small part of the brush would be contacting the armature. The angles would be wrong, so the leading edge of the brushes would wear quickly and make some noise. 3. It could be turning backward. If the brushes were worn in going clockwise and it is now going counterclockwise, or if the brush position is advance for clockwise and the motor is turning counterclockwise .. I'll have to check. This may explain the sparking but the motor should not sound like that. 4. The bearings could be making that noise and making it hard to spin the motor. That would explain the noise but not the sparking. 5. The armature (part that turns) could be damaged and could be rubbing on the stator (outside part that does not move). That would be bad, and hard to fix. I won't talk about that one any more. 6. Something else that I have not thought of could be wrong. I'll need to take it apart and inspect it to see. Perhaps a cleaning will help? In any case, that's it for today. I stopped the video and took pictures of each piece and the overall connections for documentation. If I can get the pictures compressed enough to post, I'll add them to this update. I'll be away from home for the next couple weeks, so there will be no progress on the motor inspection but I'll try to get some items off my todo list, like editing the video. Video link Video Update 2013 Feb 28 + test run - YouTube |
Update from Mar 7 - Discussion
The target for this week was editing some video. That video was taken last week and filmed last week but edited this week. It is attached to last week's update.
This week I found out that there is a potential customer for the still-in-development Electric Motor Module! This is exciting and scary at the same time. Exciting because someone out there, besides me, thinks that this is a good idea. Scary because there is now a deadline for something to work. Getting everything working on my garage floor last week was a very big step, but much work remains. On the electrical side: - Do we stay with a DC motor and controller or move to an AC system? - What kind of batteries should we use, and how many? - How do we mount the batteries to the Motor Module Frame? Then there are some issues that are a bit more mechanical in nature: - Which transmission should we use? - What type of transmission, automatic or standard? - How do we source the motor to transmission adapter and mounting plate? - How do we adapt the output drive shafts of the selected transmission to the 2006+ Honda Civic wheels that WIKISPEED uses? I entered these decision tasks, some follow-on tasks, and some miscellaneous tasks into a package that WIKISPEED is using called KERIKA. (www.kerika.com if you are interested) Kerika is an interesting software product. It is like a Kanban board, where you have a bunch of tasks posted on the left of the board in the approximate order of priority. From that list each member of the team selects the highest priority item that they know how to do, or that they WANT to know how to do, and assigns it to themself. Normally the people who WANT to know how to do something seem to be the ones that assign the task to themselves and then go about talking to the rest of the group to find out who is there that KNOWS how to do the task. At that point they pair up and do the task TOGETHER. It's progress, but it's training, and it's a 2 person team so there are different perspectives. When the task is done to the satisfaction of both team members, they take a short video of it working, or of them describing how it works and post it to the WIKISPEED youtube channel. The task is moved to Pending Review. At that point, the person in the shop who knows the most about that task reviews it with the team and determines if it is done or if there is all or part of it that needs some more work. If it passes review, it is moved to the DONE column and a bell is sounded to let everyone know that another task was completed. The Kerika software does not have a bell, and not all participants are logged in at the same time. But I'm told that the effect is similar by those who participate in both methods. For next week, some research is required. A few phone calls or emails to determine if the list of options can be narrowed. A discussion with the potential client to see what their expectations are, and how best to fulfill them. |
Update from Mar 21 - LONG POST - design decisions
I have made some tentative design decisions to move forward on the Electric Motor module, outlined below. Please point out any issues you find. I don't believe that this will be the final design ... in fact, I think that there will be more than one final design ... but I believe this design is a good start.
Executive Summary, since this post is so long ... that I need a SUMMARY! The design will use a DC motor driven by an open source DC motor controller. The DC motor will be coupled to a Honda Civic manual transmission 1984 - 2005. The power will be supplied by a number of lead-acid deep-discharge batteries. The charger is plugged into an ordinary 120V receptacle. All of these parts interface only to the High Voltage junction Box and the Low Voltage Junction Box, not directly to each other. The interface to the rest of the car is not detailed quite yet. Details Looking for `more sets of eyes` to see comment on whether these decisions make sense and will be sustainable. Each section has a title, a list of options, a Plus and Minus list, and a summary with the decision that I think is best. Motor There are, in my opinion, 2 obvious choices for the Electric Motor Module. I am not considering purchase of another motor at this time since it would add cost and delay for delivery: 1. my aircraft generator 2. my Netgain 9 inch motor 1. my surplus aircraft generator, separately excited Plus list + it has a mounting plate and a coupler already fabricated for the chev sprint transmission + I have it + no machining is required if there is a joy coupler on the transmission + it is light (under 100 lbs) Minus list - the generator is separately excited, so more controls are required, another pair of batteries, field current monitoring, etc - it is less safe to use, since the field current must be established before applying the armature current - there is a challenge to mount a cooling fan to the motor. The motor drive end has no holes to allow air flow in - there are no specs available for this generator. I've read ratings from 15 HP to 21 HP but I have no backup for those numbers. Any information may need to be tested and measured. 2. the Netgain Transwarp 9 inch series wound motor Plus List + the controller handles all of the speed control. No external circuitry is required + there are holes in the shroud to allow for an external cooling fan + it has a coupler for the motor side, and I have a joy coupler that can be used to drive the chev sprint transmission + it is a popular EV motor + it is available new from several distributors for 'mass production' of the Electric Motor Modules if that ever is required Minus List - a mounting plate will need to be fabricated for either transmission - a coupler, or half a coupler, needs to be machined for the honda transmission - it is heavier at just over 200 lbs Summary I think that the Netgain motor is the obvious choice. It is a standard motor, it is easily controlled by a commercial DC motor controller. The aircraft generator is more dangerous to control, requires external circuitry or another controller to effectively control torque and speed. The Netgain is more powerful and more likely to be a standard offering for the Electric Motor Module in the future. Applying the Keep It Simple principal - Netgain motor. Controller I have two different available DC controllers. Again, I am not considering purchase of a different controller due to cost and delivery issues: 1. Kelly controller - KDHD 2. Pauls & Sabrina's 'ReVolt' Open Source 500A DC Motor Controller 1. Kelly Controller Plus List + it is powered up and operating + the rated continuous current is 300A, maximum current (1 minute) is 600A, which is likely more than the batteries can source + it is a very simple electrical interface Minus List - there are no optional connections - it is not very powerful - since it has no optional features, it does not indicate the internal temperature although the manual states that it will cut back current in order to prevent the internal temperatures from failing the components 2. Paul & Sabrina's 'ReVolt' Open Source DC motor controller, Open Source project Plus List + it is more powerful than the Kelly, 500A continuous but no information on maximum current for short periods of acceleration + we have drawings for the controller, a Bill of Material, and the files required to produce more boards + we have an interface that will communicate the internal temperatures + it has self-protection circuits to shut itself down on over-current and prevent damage Minus List - mine has not been tested as yet - it will take some work and some time to test Summary The interface for each of these controllers is very similar. My intent is to use the Open Source controller. If there is some issue that cannot be quickly resolved, the Kelly can be used instead. There will not be a large difference either way. Decision to use Open Source. The Kelly will be held as a spare. Transmission There appears, to me, to be 3 ready options for the transmission. This section considers purchase, since I have only one transmission and it is not, in my opinion, an ideal candidate for the car: 1 - 5 speed manual from my 1990 chev sprint 2 - 5 speed manual from a 2006-2011 honda civic 3 - auto trans from a 2006-2011 honda civic 4 - added - 5 speed manual from a different year of honda civic 1 - chev sprint Plus List + I have it in a car, available immediately + I can measure things on it + The transmission runs + It has a splined shaft, but the splined shaft also has a joy coupler mated to it, made by the machinist who sold me the car + The output shafts of the transmission are available for machining if required + It is a very common EV conversion + it may not be available new, but you can pick one up used at any wrecker in North America Minus List - It may not handle the output torque of the Netgain Transwarp 9 inch motor (it may break) - The output shafts from the transmission require an adapter to mate with Honda wheels and suspension - the transmission mounting to the motor module must be fabricated from measurements. Testing is less than ideal 2 - 5 speed manual from a 2006+ Honda Civic Plus List + the transmission is stronger and should handle the output torque of the Netgain Transwarp 9 inch motor + Randy at Canev tells me that the DC motor can be reversed with a contactor, and that running at low speed in reverse will not damage the brushes. They do this in their industrial trucks and have not had wear issues. + the existing selector for the linear actuator in the car is P, R, D (not sure if there is a neutral?). The standard transmission can be locked in second gear, R will activate a reversing contactor to turn the motor in reverse, D will de-activate the contactor and turn the motor forward. + still available new, but can also be picked up from any wrecker in North America Minus List - the transmission must be procured and delivered - it will cost time and money to find it and buy it - an adapter plate and coupler need to be fabricated since this model of civic is not a popular EV conversion 3 - auto transmission from a Honda Civic Plus List + the output shafts do not require an adapter to mate with the Honda wheels and suspension + the transmission is stronger and should handle the output torque of the Netgain Transwarp 9 inch motor + the transmission is the same as the gas Motor Module engine + The existing linkage available from the WIKISPEED car is Park, Reverse, Neutral, Forward which ALREADY works with this transmission + The WIKISPEED shop can measure anything required to fabricate the required motor-to-transmission coupler + the transmission mounting to the motor module can be fabricated at the Lynnewood shop using existing designs + the transmission is available new from Honda via the existing WIKISPEED agreement Minus List - the transmission may or may not shift from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4rth gear. This will be a bit of an experiment. - the motor to transmission 'slips' before lockup so some efficiency is lost when part of the power is lost to slippage. This is not really a big deal at this stage. - Randy at CanEV has advised against using an automatic 4 - 5 speed manual from a 1984 - 2005 Honda Civic Plus List + the transmission is stronger and should handle the output torque of the Netgain Transwarp 9 inch motor + the motor coupler and the transmission adapter plate are available from Canev pre-made + Randy at Canev tells me that the DC motor can be reversed with a contactor, and that running at low speed in reverse will not damage the brushes. They do this in their industrial trucks and have not had wear issues. + the existing selector for the linear actuator in the car is P, R, D (not sure if there is a neutral?). The standard transmission can be locked in second gear, R will activate a reversing contactor to turn the motor in reverse, D will de-activate the contactor and turn the motor forward. + still available new, but can also be picked up from any wrecker in North America Minus List - the transmission must be procured and delivered - it will cost time and money to find it and buy it - an adapter needs to be fabricated to mate the output shafts of this older style transmission to the 2006+ wheels used by WIKISPEED - the transmission coupler and adapter plate need to be procured and delivered Summary It appeared to me about a week ago that the automatic transmission has many positives and almost NO negatives. After a quick discussion with Randy at CanEV (an EV conversion shop), that has changed. He advises me that there are many problems driving an automatic transmission with an electric motor and advises on the Standard transmission. He did not go into details on the attempts that they have made with their heavy-duty vehicles, but I am inclined to take his advice. So the added option, number 4, is the tentative path forward. It appears that all the transmissions of this era, 1984 - 2005, have the same mounting to the gas engine so the adapter plate and coupler works. A transmission needs to be sourced so that measurements can be made and the adapter to the wheels can be machined. The High Voltage Junction Box and Low Voltage Junction Box are part of the design. It may be a challenge to fit everything into the motor module frame. |
Summary of discussion for Electric Motor Module design
1. The Netgain connects easily to the Honda Transmission?
Yes. A coupler and adapter plate are available from CanEV. It is a standard product for them and is in stock. 2. Does the clutch stay? The clutch plate stays, but the clutch itself is removed so no linkage is required to the cabin of the car. The car does not have a clutch pedal, being an automatic transmission vehicle right now. 3. Which transmission are you going to use? Wreckers need to be called to source a transmission locally. Since the number of models available is so broad, the prices and years will be posted first so that anyone with information on why any of the choices are better, or worse, can chime in before we commit to a specific year of transmission. 4. An AC drive system has regenerative braking, and a higher voltage so the contactors don't need to be as big. Why not AC? Not because it's not a good choice. Because 2 DC drive systems are available, and will work. An AC system is likely to be prototyped in the future. Just not right now. |
Update from Mar 28 - Netgain motor check/inspection
27 Attachment(s)
I'm almost caught up! A couple more posts and the backlog will be gone!
I posted the tentative design decisions in posting #29. If anyone has comments or wants to point out an error in my logic - I'm open to suggestions. Now for the motor. Referring to the video linked in posting #27, at about the 4:15 mark I ran up the Netgain motor and was not happy with the noise that the motor was making. The sparks coming from the commutator (where the brushes contact the armature) and brushes were a bit unsettling as well. Going through the EVTV index, (EVTV Motor Verks | Electric Car Conversion Videos) I re-watched portions of the March 30, 2012 show where changing of the brushes is discussed for a netgain 11 inch and a netgain 9 inch motor. It appears that the noisy brushes are common when the brushes have not been 'seated' or worn into the curve of the commutator. I was also concerned that the brushes may not be installed in the same direction as the rotation. After watching the EVTV episode again, I realized that Jack Rickard has that concern. I likely learned that concern from him. Another nugget of information - there is a CW, N, CCW stamp on one side of the stator that shows if the brushes are in the N for Neutral position, or advanced 12 degreees Clockwise or Counter Clockwise from the drive end. So I located the stamps on my motor and it is in the CCW position now. I think that it may be OK to move to Neutral position since what I've read is that there is no need to advance the brushes when you are below 96VDC. I have tentatively set up for 72 VDC but it may go down depending on how much room is left for the batteries in the Electric Motor Module frame when everything else has been mounted. There ARE directions from Netgain on how to change the direction of rotation for the motor and that does not include removing the brush holders and re-installing them a different way. Jack Rickard specifically mentions that the Honda engines and transmissions rotate Clockwise from the drive end and that is different from most other manufacturers. I started with the motor on a low cart. After coming up empty on ideas to lift the motor up onto my work bench without needing to use my back ... I picked it up and raised it to waist level on my Black & Decker workmate (NG9_lift). I could have worked on the motor at that level, but the lighting is not as good. I then lifted from waist level to the 40 inch benchtop (NG_lift1end). With the motor rotated to give me access to the non-drive end, or commutator end, or auxilliary end, I first removed the shroud NG9_brush_end_shoud, NG9_brush_end_shroud_removed). Then I removed the 4 allen head screws (1/4 inch) and set them aside (NG9_remove_brush_end1). The next challenge is to remove the end of the motor complete with brushes. First I needed to remove the cable terminated to A2 (NG9_field_cable_A2). Then I tried a simple pull and that did not work. So I did what I normally do while thinking - I did documentation. Use a jiffy marker to mark the end bell and the housing so that I can align them again. Draw an arrow to one of the bolt holes that is NOT used with an X and the one that IS used with a check mark. To get the end bell off the motor, the motor (or at least the end that I'm working on) needs to be off the bench. Find some scrap wood to elevate the one end. It is bevelled (45 degrees) so it also keeps the motor from rolling from side to side. Inspiration was not to be found so I went onto the net and looked for instructions on how to remove the end. I found a video that showed a gear puller being used to push against the shaft while pulling on 3 points of the housing. It did not take more than 4 turns on the gear puller (after it was snugged up against the frame) to break the end free. After that the video showed pulling the end bell off by hand. I don't have a gear puller. I don't know anyone who does. But if I can put something ... about 2 and 5/8 long into the vent holes between the end bell and the stator I should be able to put a bit of force into prying them apart. And if I pry on both sides at once, I should not damage the bearing. A search for some tool that fits the bill yielded a 3/8 socket wrench with a shallow socket fitted. I looked around and sadly do not have a second 3/8 socket wrench (NG9_pry_with_socket). BUT I have a 1/4 socket wrench and a deeper socket that should work. Putting the wrenches in place on opposite sides of the motor and giving one quick push popped the left side but not the right side. Switch the wrenches around and try again. Now both sides have released - sorry, forgot to take a picture. I should likely remove the brushes before I take the end off (NG9_brushes, NG9_brushes_bad_angle). The springs are clipped into the spring holders and it looks like it should release with some pressure on the spring toward the motor and a screwdriver pushing the clip side toward the brush. This does not work. Back to Jack's video. It appears that the spring is forced out of the way and the brush can be pulled out ... but the brush holders are a Helwig design not the stock Warfield brush holders. Well, I'll try it. If it fails, it fails. Another search of the web give very little for results. Perhaps for most mechanically-minded people this is obvious. I am not very mechanical. It turns out that the spring can be forced out of the way on the stock Warfield brush holders ... Jack used a tool that looked like a screwdriver bent into a hook. I don't have one of those. What to use? A screwdriver will get into the spring coil, but slips out. Something L shaped instead of hooked should work. The Allen set was on the bench - how about one of them? The 1/4 inch was too large to coil around the corner but a 1/8 worked OK .. success! The 8 brushes came out, but 2 of them are pretty tight. The wires go between supports and are tight. Now for the end bell. How to I keep the rest of the motor from sliding when I pull off instead of the end bell? I used a piece of scrap 2x6 between my chest and the motor shaft, then pulled by hand on each side of the housing (no picture of this for obvious reasons ... I'd need 4 hands!). It did not come easily. There is something resisting, but it came off. The brushes and the brush holders (NG9_brush_holder) do not appear to have the brushes pointed at the shaft, but slightly to one side as Jack mentioned in the video. I don't see holes to re-install the brush holders in the opposite direction, so I won't be removing them. The brushes (NG9_brush_face, NG9_brush_face2) DO appear to be 'seated'. So what's with the sparks when the motor was turning? There is wear across the entire face of the brushes, making me think that there is good contact from the brushes to the commutator. OK - what about the 'other' side of the brushes - the commutator. I lifted the armature a bit and it turns freely (NG9_commutator2_bad). A visual inspection shows a carbon film on most of the armature (NG9_commutator_smooth2). But there are 4 spots that appear somehow corroded?(NG9_commutator_rough2) Perhaps this is where the brushes were sitting against the commutator when the motor was in storage. The surface in these locations is rough to the touch and I could see this wearing the brushes quickly if it were allowed to continue. A few gentle (low pressure) swipes of my emery cloth (120 grit) block in the direction of rotation (to keep the slightly rounded profile of the contacts) makes things a bit better but does not resolve the issue. I'm hesitant to use too much pressure since copper is a soft metal. I only want the corrosion to be removed. So ... I use more repetitions at the same low pressure - about as much weight as letting my hand rest on the emery cloth block. NOTE - I SAID EMERY CLOTH NOT SANDPAPER! Emery cloth does not shed grit into the copper or into the spaces between the contacts. THIS IS IMPORTANT. Sandpaper grit is by definition - rough! - and it will wear your brushes if it is embedded in the copper contacts on your commutator. After what seemed like a long time, but was probably an hour or so, the contacts are smooth to the touch all the way around (and my finger gets very black checking this). The carbon film and corrosion has been wiped off the contacts maybe 1/8 of the way around since I could not 'stop' perfectly at the edge of the corrosion where I was working, I overlapped with the adjacent contacts a little. There are no ridges, gouges or scratches. And there are no longer any bumps that stick out of the contacts (maybe that was brush material?). Hopefully that takes care of the sparking issue when the motor turns and most of the motor noise. I only have one picture, so you can't see all the way around (NG9_Commutator) Next on the list is to remove the armature and do a visual inspection. I changed the motor from on it's side to on end so that I don't scrape the sides of the armature or the stator when the shaft clears the drive end bearing (NG9_vertical). I can't get the armature removed. It won't pull out. So I rested the drive end shaft on the work bench and pushed down on the stator. It still won't release. I'm sure it just needs a bit of a tap with a rubber hammer but I am hesitant since I am new to this. Back to the videos - can I find an armature removal? It does not appear so. Perhaps it's obvious. I should put the motor back on it's side and remove the other end bell, which is where the bearing is and likely the part that does not want to release the shaft. I don't NEED the armature separate from the drive end bell ... I was just thinking that was how it would work. So, remove the allen head screws after the motor is on it's side again. Again, I need to find something that will allow me to get some leverage. This side has a much smaller gap. Just under 3/4 inch so a couple pieces of half inch plywood scrap to start? I only have one (NG9_remove_drive_end_scrap). Use a piece of board that was cut out of a curve, tapered so I can break it off at about 1/2 inch thickness. Pry on both sides, but only one side popped (NG9_remove_drive_end_scrap2). Switch around the wood, left to right and right to left. Pry again and both sides are out. Now to get the armature out ... without scraping it on the stator (it is not supported on one end - putting the other end cap back on worked for about an inch of travel). Block up the armature on the commutator side with 2 x 4s and shims so that the armature turns freely. Use screwdrivers to pry on the drive end cap (the plywood is not a snug fit any more). It takes a bit of coaxing but it came out to about 5 inches. That's when the commutator side shaft ran out of blocks to sit on, so the armature stopped the travel by resting on the inside of the stator. I stuck my arm around to the commutator side and supported the shaft while pulling the armature out with my other hand. That got me a few more inches. The last of it was from the drive end with both hands supporting the armature and gently pulling it out of the stator and setting in on the bench. I was VERY CAREFUL to identify where the balancing putty is and keeping that away from contact with the stator. See pictures of the putty (NG9_armature_putty2). The armature is heavier than I expected. According to the session that Tom Brunka from Helwig Carbon Products put on a EVCON, the color of the commutator should be a chocolate brown and you should NOT wipe off the commutator ... but I sanded it off ... He also mentioned that one should not remove the brushes of a motor to 'check' for wear, as removing and re-installing them will have them at a slightly different position and encourage wear instead. This motor has been in storage and I am looking for an issue, so removing the brushes is OK. What I was looking for was the source of the noise when the motor turns. There are no abrasions on the metal surface (there is some minor surface rust as shown in the pictures) (NG9_stator_wide, NG9_stator_coil_rust, NG9_stator_close1, NG9_stator_binding) so it does not appear that the armature is rubbing anywhere despite the sound that the motor made while running. Further to the above discussion of taking corrosion off the commutator, there is no buildup between the commutator contacts. This is good. The shafts on either end show a bit of surface corrosion but nothing to worry about. This is good. Now for the stator. No carbon dust at all? I was expecting some ... but there are no score marks or anything indicating abrasion. The insulation on the ends and the binding of the coils appears to be in very good shape. This is good. And there is some minor surface corrosion (rust) on the iron of the stator. There is no buildup of carbon. This is good. Putting it all back together takes a lot less time than taking it apart. Lining things up with the arrows is pretty quick. I did't have lock-tite for the allen screws. I've read that the BLUE lock-tite is appropriate. That was a phone call, $10, and a short trip to pick it up ... since it would be very bad to have these screws loosen off in operation! (NG9_armature_backin, NG9_back_together) So the motor is not in 'as new' shape, but it is in good shape. It needs to be run for a while at only 12V to ensure that the brushes are seated well in the slightly different position after re-installation. The brushes are in the Neutral position so it can turn either way, depending on wiring. The neutral versus advance CW is is easily changed if required ... not a big deal either way. I should look for the lubricant that is needed to dress the commutator. It never hurts to have good lubrication! The Honda transmission on the WIKISPEED Electric Motor Module needs an electrically-controlled reverse, so the motor will turn backward in first gear (or second, or wherever we lock the manual transmission on installation) instead of keeping the motor turning forward and changing the transmission into reverse. So I guess I need to add a reversing contactor to my High Voltage Junction box ... and make sure that reversing the leads on the motor will reverse the rotation. A very successful inspection! |
Update from Mar 31 - video of motor running
|
Update from Apr 1 - ReVolt Open Source DC Motor Controller review
4 Attachment(s)
Moving on to the inspection of the Open ReVolt controller, a DIY build. It was built by someone but not completed and tested. That person sold the not-quite-finished project to me.
Being paranoid, I removed it from the case to examine it and perform any tests that I could before taking the leap of faith and turning on the power. The control board is assembled neatly (ReVolt_Top1). Component leads are trimmed. Resistors are bent consistently, and the resistors are close to the PCBoard. The design does not *REALLY* allow for the dis-assembly of the system after all the components have been soldered in place. You need to remove the solder from one side of 10 resistors to separate the control board from the power board. The edge of the control board can be lifted to allow some pictures to be taken, so I did that. 4 bolts, nuts and standoffs were removed to allow the control board to be lifted on one side (ReVolt_Under). After the pictures were taken (no obvious issues on the bottom of the control board), the control board was put back in place and secured (ReVolt_Top2). Further examination of the top of the control board identified three locations where the solder did not wick up to the top of the board from the bottom (where the solder was fed). Good solder joints have a pool of solder within the circular hole that holds the leads, and the pool extends up to the top of the board (or nearly). That got me thinking about Cold Solder Joints. So I methodically checked each of the visible resistor solder joints from the top of the control board. I noticed that there are a few resistors where the solder is too visible on the component side, like the resistors were soldered from the component side instead of the other side. The solder should not look too much like a sphere. A small tug on the end of each of those 3 resistors results in 1 resistor coming completely out of the PCB hole (ReVolt_Cold_Solder). A textbook case of a Cold Solder Joint. I'd guess that this resistor is not the only one on the board. So I will be removing the 10 soldered-in resistors that hold the power board to the control board so that I can check and resolder the control board, then check and resolder the power board, as required. While I'm at it, I should be verifying polarity for each part against the PCBoard artwork. And with my GREAT memory ... I'll be using a picture of an unpopulated PC Board, verifying each solder joint and each component polarity, and marking the good ones in green and the bad ones in red. That way I can re-check the ones that I re-soldered when everything is done and not have to re-check solder joints that were not changed. Oh well ... at least I checked before powering it up! This Open Source controller is no longer what you'd call Low Hanging Fruit. The repair and checking of this controller is not difficult but will take a while, and since there is already a workable solution in the Kelly controller, my time is better spent on other tasks. I will put away Paul and Sabrina's ReVolt 500 Amp Open Source Controller until it becomes the highest value task. |
Update for Apr 6 - RUSSCO SC-18 120 battery charger
Test Russco SC-120 battery charger. The open circuit voltage will not drop below 91VDC. The manual states 24 - 120, so I think the charger is broken.
Test with a toaster as a load - some electronic outputs 'leak' enough current to fool a digital multimeter into erroneous voltage readings. Adding a load will drop the output down to the actual output of the circuit. The current meter jumps to 5 amps immediately and the output voltage is still 91 VDC ... so it was not a phantom voltage, or just 'leakage'. Increasing the current (current knob varies from 0 - 100%) raises the voltage to just under 100 VDC. The current should have gone up, but I didn`t see that. One of my battery clips fell off the load and contacted the other battery clip - so it short circuited. The good news - there is NO SMOKE! I didn't let the 'magic smoke' out of the charger. The bad news - there was a bad noise from the transformer before I hit the off switch. After separating the output clips again (kept in place with electrical tape, this time) I tried the charger again. No output voltage ... NOTHING ... at ALL ... 0.00VDC. The voltage setting and current setting have no effect. The light is on that shows there is power, but the ammeter does not move. OK, disconnect the load, the output voltage is still 0 VDC. Check the power switch. It works fine (power light turns off, then back on when I turn the switch on again). What else can I check? The DC fuse! Remove the fuse and check the resistance. The fuse should blow and protect the rest of the circuit, right? 0.00 ohms (as you would expect a fuse to be). Sigh ... the fuse is OK ... but the charger is broken. How does THAT work? OK. So I appear to have broken the charger. Well, it wasn`t working anyway, but I broke it some more. Since it has no warranty (I bought it used), I'm going to open it up and see what's inside ... and whether I can fix it! Before I do anything rash, look to the internet for instructions, troubleshooting, et al. A couple of threads on DIYElectricCars for RUSSCO chargers. It appears that the SC-120 has a couple of specific voltage ranges that it can charge. The 24 - 120VDC that I read is not correct ... great, so it likely was NOT broken when I started! Perhaps the internet search should have been done prior to my testing ... Look for some video of how to take apart the charger. I find no videos. I find no articles. I found an ebay auction for a schematic of a RUSSCO charger ... but that`s it. So I guess I`ll muddle along on my own. Let`s start by trying to get into the charger. There are several screws around the unit. There are two access plates that can be removed to access the AC in and some sort of external transformer. No help there. Terminals are revealed, but nothing else. Look at the bottom (which is plastic). There appears to be two layers of plastic, but they are glued together. No joy there. What the heck, you have to start somewhere ... remove some of the screws to try getting it apart. I hear (unfortunately) what sounds like nuts and washers falling inside the charger. And then a clunk, like a transformer has had the last screw removed and is now lying on the bottom of the case ... but that's only a guess ... No turning back now ... I can't run a charger with washers and nuts rolling around loose inside it. Even if it was working, things need to be bolted down to be safe. Onward! With every screw removed that makes any sense at all (I did not remove all 4 screws holding the fan cover, or the fan, or the switches and lights) the case does not open. Great. Now what? The base. There must be screws hidden that attach the base to the charger. I shone a light from one side, near the bottom, to see if there are screws that go from the bottom plastic into the frame. There are a lot of them. So I locate them (approximately) using light from 2 directions, then drill/bore a hole in the bottom piece of plastic with a phillips screwdriver bit. And I FIND SCREWS! I happily remove them ... and more nuts come off and slide around inside the charger :( ... After removing 10 screws and removing the base, I realize that 6 of those screws were for the standoffs of a PC board and the other 4 were ACTUALLY to remove the bottom of the charger. So now I have a peak inside. There are a handful of nuts and washers. I removed the diode heat sink from the side, the 4 bolts holding the transformer onto the side, 2 screws for the fan, 2 for the fan guard, the previously noted 6 standoffs for the PC Board ... and nothing will come out of the case! There are wires connecting the various pieces, and the wires have connectors that will come apart. But the PC board is at the bottom and is too wide to tilt and get out of the hole in the bottom of the case. The transformer won`t get by the PC Board. I could remove the diode and it`s heat sink (which has a temperature sensor on it) but that`s about it. Examine the case ... it appears to be a single piece of metal cut and bent to make a box. The sides do not appear to be welded. The box is painted, but the paint comes off easily at the seams. Various available sizes of screwdrivers will not fit into the seams and force them apart. I NEED to get the PC Board out, so that other things will come out, so that I can power things up and check what, if anything, I killed by shorting out the battery leads. The PC Board is quite large, but the traces are widely spaced (minimum spacing for 220ish VDC or 120 + 36V boost = 156 VAC * 1.414 = 220.6VDC). Perhaps there is not a lot of control on the board? That`s a bit much to ask. How would I design a charger? I'd take 120 VAC through the isolation transformer, then a full wave diode bridge. Use a power transistor to drop the voltage to a requested DC bus voltage level dictated by the first dial. Then I'd limit the current from that bus out to the batteries according to the second dial. The charger needs a constant current stage, a constant voltage stage, then a cut-off stage and timeout. That part would be in the micro. Heck - ALL of that is controlled by the micro. The hardware circuit does the diode bridge and switches the transistors when the micro wants them switched. I can see if a user identifiable component was damaged, and replace it, and get it perhaps to do what it was designed to do. But that`s it. If I want to be able to use a lower voltage, I`m better off to start with an Open Source circuit. Crap. I messed up a $300 ebay purchase! Oh well, it`s not the first time and it is almost certainly not the last time! I SHOULD have learned a bit more ... $300 is a bit steep to learn that I should do an internet search to find out how people who OWN a charger say it works instead of believing the manual. At least I RTFMed ... The results: - the charger will not work for the RRC Electric Motor Module build unless I'm using a 132V or 144V pack. - the charger no longer works (it may or may not have been broken to start with, but it is broken now) - fixing this charger is no longer a high priority since it will not work for the near term goal of the RRC build. So I will pack up the parts, the manual, and a good portion of my pride ... and put it in my wall of shame (storage for items that need repair) to await a time when it becomes the highest priority task. |
Update for April 15, 2013
First off, I need to test the reversing of the netgain motor.
Present setup is + to S1, - to A1, and a jumper from A2 to S2 According to the manual, the way to reverse this is to put the jumper from A1 to S2, and apply - to A2 instead of A1. To switch A1 and A2, both of these terminals must be wired to the HVJB. GREAT! More large wires. More terminal connections. Forward has - to A1, S2 to A2. Reverse has - to A2, S2 to A1. To implement this, Input 1 as - and output 1 as A1, input 2 as S2 and output 2 as A2. The Reversing starter has it's terminals jumpered to connect Input 1 to Output 2, Input 2 to Output 1 in the REVERSE configuration To test this, wire the - through a terminal to A1 (used as a contact). Add a cable from A2 to the HVJB and S2 to the HVJB and connect them together at a terminal. This is 2 new cables from the HVJB to the motor. To perform this, clean up the remaining 'long' recycled cable and add a lug to the last remaining 'long' recycled cable portion. Then clean it up. Well, I got the wires added, but I'm tired of putting lugs onto plywood. I wired it together with a bolt. I shot some video (see youtube video - warning - long! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMQr5nZDnyI) of the jumper removed from A2 to S2. It is changed to 2 longer cables, one from A2 and one from S2. Verify rotation on the motor. It works. Then change the - terminal to connect to the A2 cable instead. Take a short video while this is changing. Explain some things. Change the S2 terminal to connect to the A1 cable instead. Verify reverse rotation. Take another video. It ended up quite long. I should have edited more - I ran out of time. So the motor reverses nicely. No nasty noises, no sparks. It looks pretty good! |
Update for April 25, 2013
My apologies for the long delay between posts. It takes time to document what you've done ... and sometimes it's more exciting to get it DONE than to write about it.
Then you have to go back through your sparse notes and try to figure out what you did ... a month ago ... Well, I tried to buy a transmission. From the confused responses I received from several wreckers, it is not 'normal' to have no information on the gas engine that the transmission was tied to while it was in a gas car. And you need to know if it was a 4 door, a 2 door, the size of the engine, single of dual overhead cams, the trim level (base, DX, LX, SI) .. and on it goes. I finally stopped trying to explain what I was doing and made up a car with the appropriate information ... and THAT didn't work, either since the car I made up was not a popular model so no one had parts for it! I'm going to throw that task in a corner for a while and move on with another, that will hopefully be easier to do! |
Update for April 30
I switched from buying a transmission to buying a reversing starter. That's not as easy as I thought it would be, either.
There are lots of contactors that will switch 100 - 150 amps. Lots of these are used for 12V or 24V electric winches. But 150 amps is a bit low. I'd like the contactor to be rated at least 250 amps, and would prefer a bit higher if possible. The starter will be changing the field connection on the Warp9, while the motor is not energized. But the Warp9 will take anything that the Kelly controller will send it - 350 amps for a few seconds during acceleration. I had talked to Randy over at CanEV.com last week. And after the discussion, I purchased and received in the same week, a Honda D type transmission adapter plate (works for all Manual Honda transmissions from 1984 - 2005, with one part!) and a motor coupler to adapt the keyed shaft of the motor to the splined shaft of the transmission. This week, I went through the CanEV web site again and noticed that Randy has pictures of a reversing contactor, the EV202, in his gallery of custom electrical boxes. So I called Randy at CanEV again and talked to him about these contactors. He sells them even though they are not listed on the web site store ... AND he has them in STOCK!. So he sent me a quote and I ordered one. It's a beast, rated over 500 amps DC at somewhere around 200 VDC. A lot bigger than I need ... but it's better (and safer) to over-design the first one and then to do some measurements and verify that it's OK to scale back on the next design than it is to under-design the first one and get into trouble with overheating, or welding contacts together that are not rated at a high enough voltage or current so they won't turn off. |
Update for May 4, 2013
I talked to one welder about using the 2002 honda civic axles and a set of 2006 axles to make one set of axles the fit into the 2002 transmission and also fit into the 2006 wheels. The 2002 axles would be cut off in the 'middle' of the shaft and welded to 2006 honda civic axles that are cut off to get the distance correct between the wheels.
He did not say it was impossible. He made it sound hard to do, and that it would need to be machined when it was done to get it balanced properly ... but at 60 mph the tire spins just under 1000 rpm. Balance is not critical at this low speed, is it? He was not interested in doing the work. And he had no suggestions about who else locally may be interested in the work. So ... I talked to a machinist about the same task, and the machinist was not interested, either. He did ask if the diameter of the splined shaft on the 2002 axle was larger or smaller than the splines on the 2006 wheels. He said it would be a smaller job to machine the 2002 axles to fit the 2006 wheels, or to machine an adapter to have the 2002 axles fit into the 2006 wheels. Unfortunately, he's not interested in the work. He just offered the advice that this approach would be less time and more reliable. I need to find some custom car guys that can answer some of these questions! Isn't this sort of thing done pretty regularly? Maybe the welder and the machinist were being polite. I'd have been OK with 'that works OK, but I'm busy making more money with simpler jobs' instead of making me think I'm on the wrong track. |
Update for May 6, 2013
Received the Reversing EV202 starter. So now I can put the 5 speed transmission in one forward gear and reverse the car using the contactor so I don't need the complicated clutch linkage or shifting linkage ... at least to start with!
How can you tell that I'm electrical? I've solved a mechanical linkage problem (there is no gear shift linkage or clutch linkage in the WIKISPEED SGT01) with a reversing starter! |
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