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-   -   Will Turnip permit 15% ethanol year-round? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/will-turnip-permit-15-ethanol-year-round-36916.html)

Xist 10-09-2018 03:34 AM

Will Turnip permit 15% ethanol year-round?
 
Quote:

The change would allow year-round sales of gasoline blends with up to 15 percent ethanol. Gasoline typically contains 10 percent ethanol.
The EPA currently bans the high-ethanol blend, called E15, during the summer because of concerns that it contributes to smog on hot days, a claim ethanol industry advocates say is unfounded.
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBO84IT?m=en-u...rID=InAppShare

19bonestock88 10-09-2018 05:55 AM

Personally I’d like to just see more proliferation of ethanol blends in general... I don’t wanna be forced into buying E15 if I don’t want to, but would love to have easy access to ethanol rich blends, maybe E30 and E47 in addition to E85...

I think that if one advanced timing and leaned mixture to take advantage of the higher octane of E30 and the cooling effect that alcohol has on combustion, you could about break even in mileage versus E10/87octane, with significantly greater power output

roosterk0031 10-10-2018 09:49 AM

I had to do a little research on this because it's been at the pump all summer here. The three months it has to be labeled for FFV only just like E85, never stopped me from putting either in any of my cars.

Petroleum rep on local radio yesterday said it doesn't really matter only 15% of Iowa's pumps are compatible and the state has a fund (tax payers) for pumps to be upgraded. If tax payers are going to pay(shouldn't) for an upgrade it should only be for Blender pumps.

I also think all new cars should be FFV. It's just 1 sensor that $50 now if they choose to use it and software. If Brazil can do it the US should to.

We should also drop the requirement to get all the water out of the ethanol to reduce the cost of producing it.

Piotrsko 10-10-2018 10:25 AM

Sorry, but I sure as heck don't want to pay $3.54 a gallon for water which pisses off the controls in the ECU.

redpoint5 10-10-2018 01:18 PM

Ethanol is garbage. The net benefit doesn't outweigh the net cost. People are throwing their lawnmowers away every year because the gas can't sit over winter without collecting water. The hoses dry and crack because they weren't made for alcohol. Car fuel economy plummets. It has 1/3 less energy as gasoline. It displaces food crops.

Sure, if this were Brazil I'd be all about ethanol, but this isn't Brazil, and we don't grow cane sugar.

If burning ethanol were better, then law wouldn't have to mandate it. Instead we'd all just be burning it because it's better. Whenever a law compels an otherwise free market, you have to be very skeptical about what the real reason for the law was, because it sure doesn't have consumers best interest in mind.

roosterk0031 10-10-2018 01:23 PM

Study on Ethanol energy balance.

https://www.usda.gov/oce/reports/ene...ornEthanol.pdf

"There is a low-input-energy segment of the industry that does better than the industry average. The energy balance ratio is 4.0 for areas like Iowa and Minnesota that use the lowest corn"

That article doesn't address gasoline, but another one I found earlier said it took 1.23 btu of fossil fuels to get 1 btu of gasoline in the pump (0.81). I think the overall average for corn ethanol was 2.3 field to pump.

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/ag...HofJuly07.html

There's where the 1.23 number comes from. That article list corn ethanol at 1.36 but was done in 2007. Improvements have been made in the ethanol industry the top listed study is more recent.


"Conclusion

All the talk about ethanol being an inefficient energy converter is wrong. Moreover, the energy balance question is largely bogus. Whether you are concerned about weaning the U.S. from foreign oil, stopping global warming, or both, ethanol is better than gasoline and getting better every day."

redpoint5 10-10-2018 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosterk0031 (Post 581221)
All the talk about ethanol being an inefficient energy converter is wrong. Moreover, the energy balance question is largely bogus. Whether you are concerned about weaning the U.S. from foreign oil, stopping global warming, or both, ethanol is better than gasoline and getting better every day."

I didn't say that you can't get a decent energy conversion out of corn ethanol, I implied that the opportunity cost of going to ethanol is so great that it hasn't happened in the free market.

You've yet to address why the free market hasn't adopted ethanol for fueling our vehicles. Nothing is preventing auto manufacturers from producing vehicles that run on 100% ethanol, or gas stations from supplying it. In fact, even with ethanol subsidies, we don't have auto manufacturers building cars that run on high levels of ethanol.

The government shouldn't be the first "solution" to a problem; it should be the very last. First, answer what problem a 15% ethanol mandate fixes. Next answer why the problem it fixes has to be addressed by the worst problem solver (government).

freebeard 10-10-2018 09:38 PM

I, for one, think you should either:
Change the title to something less politically brain-dead.
Have the mods move the thread to The Lounge.

Xist 10-10-2018 10:36 PM

Brain-dead. Clever.

How do you feel about year-round 15% ethanol?

19bonestock88 10-10-2018 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 581245)
I didn't say that you can't get a decent energy conversion out of corn ethanol, I implied that the opportunity cost of going to ethanol is so great that it hasn't happened in the free market.

You've yet to address why the free market hasn't adopted ethanol for fueling our vehicles. Nothing is preventing auto manufacturers from producing vehicles that run on 100% ethanol, or gas stations from supplying it. In fact, even with ethanol subsidies, we don't have auto manufacturers building cars that run on high levels of ethanol.

The government shouldn't be the first "solution" to a problem; it should be the very last. First, answer what problem a 15% ethanol mandate fixes. Next answer why the problem it fixes has to be addressed by the worst problem solver (government).

A 15% mandate fixes nothing. Id say that if all gasoline were 15% ethanol there would be a lot of older vehicles damaged or taken off the road due to incompatibility... a lot of modern cars would be okay with only a slight loss in mileage, but Id rather see more blend pumps than a mandate of 15% minimum


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