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-   -   XFI CPU for gen 2 Metro? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/xfi-cpu-gen-2-metro-36595.html)

Ultra-Orange 06-29-2018 09:28 PM

XFI CPU for gen 2 Metro?
 
I Got a wild hair and decided I wanted to do a XFI swap into a Gen 2 chassis. In my research I discovered that XFI engine transmition & CPUs where different than Base/LSI models. In passing I told a friend about the project and said I suspected the CPU wouldnt fit the newer car as a) its a newer model. and b) first gens are OBDI1 where second gens where OBDI2.

With out blinking an eye he said it would fit. and the different OBDI between generations wouldnt be an issue.

Now he isnt a Geo guy and im not an Electrics guy. My gut tells me that the CPU wont fit. But he knows electrics WAY better than me, so I dont want to dismiss his input out of hand.

So can someone with Geo experience tell me yes or no if the Gen 1 CPUs will fir gen 2 chassis?

Thanks in advnace!

HydroJim 06-29-2018 09:36 PM

geometroforum.com has the answers you seek.

Ultra-Orange 06-29-2018 09:38 PM

Ill check it out! Thanks!

me and my metro 06-29-2018 11:22 PM

There are two basic body styles, 89-94 an 95-01. Actually there are subtle differences in each series. The 89-91 cars are similar, and the 92-94 cars are similar. The 94 and 95 electronics are very close across the body change-all these cars are OBD1. Starting in 96 they became OBD2- this means they have a crank sensor to monitor missfires and a second O2 sensor to monitor cat efficiency. 95-97 cars have blinkers in the front bumpers the 98-01 cars have blinkers in the headlight assemblies.
Unless you are very competent with automotive electronics leave it alone.
If you want to make an “xfi” in the newer body style you can change the gear ratio by changing transmissions and put an “xfi type cam” in your engine.
The Xfi had a 9% higher gear ratio and an economy grind cam with advance built in. This is compared to the base model. There are 4 different final drive ratios available in the “Metro” transmission configuration. There is a 3.5, a 3.8, a 4.1 and a 4.4. The 3.5 came with the 1.3 liter 4 cylinder in the early car. The 4.1 came with the 1.0 liter 3 cylinder in the early car except the xfi and it had a 3.8.
The 3.8 came with the 1.3 liter in the late car. The 4.4 came with the 1.0 liter in the late car.
Of course there was the Suzuki Swift Gti and it had a dohc 1.3 liter and it came with the 4.1 ratio.
I played with these cars for 8 years and swaped engines and transmissions several times. I installed a 1.0 liter into a late sedan, they only came with 1.3 liter 4 cylinders. I installed a 92 1.3 into a 91 1.0 liter car, this required complete wiring harness swaps and mating the 91 dash to the 93 car harness. I do this kind of stuff as my day job.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...cations.php#53
This is the 95 that I installed a 1.0 three cylinder and a 3.8 tranny. I installed an economy cam and a +10 gear. This car was a gutless wonder but got low 50s mpg on my commute of 60 miles per day. I installed a stock 1.0 and a 4.1 trans and the car drove fine. I gave it to my oldest grandson and he drove for 5 years until destroyed a year ago. The car got mid 40s with the stock engine and the 4.1 trans. This is the big body 4 door. The early cars are quite a bit lighter but the late cars have an airbag.

Stubby79 06-29-2018 11:34 PM

What he ^^ said. It won't fit the harness.

Ultra-Orange 06-30-2018 05:50 AM

Ah! As I suspected! Thank you all for your helpful input!

So the XFI CPU wont fit the existing wiring harness. requiring a full harness swap.

Being a shade tree mechanic performing red-neck engineering I think its safe to say this is well beyond my capabilities.

I may still do a engine/transmition swap. Not sure why but I REALLY like the 2nd gen body. With some light mods (Mirror deletes. partial grill block, Home depot edging chin spoiler & skirts)I managed 51MPG in my 96 Metro( Mostly freeway driving, 60MPH cruise, no P&G, GPS Certified) .

Its crazy, the car is REAL sketchy. 200k miles. It struggles to hold a cruise, even in town. its way underpowered for how I drive (shift at 3.5k RPMs) The exhaust is Patchwork & loud (When I got the car it ended just behind the drivers seat and was welded to the body). The Transmition has Junkyard grease paint Serial numbers on it. For some reason it gets real good gas mileage (for its condition).

I used to own a 93 XFI and was REAL happy with how it behaved on the road. I think i may just be looking for that feeling again.

me and my metro 06-30-2018 09:58 PM

Your 96 is OBD2 and has a crank sensor on the bottom behind the crank pulley. You need to keep that for your car to pass DEQ in Portlandia. You can get away with a cam change and a transmission change leave all the rest of the 96 stuff alone. Make sure you have good compression and you will love it. I would find a 3.8 tranny for your two door and a genuine xfi cam if possible. If not PM me and I will try to hook you up with the cam grinder in Canada. He also used to make advance gears in 2-10 degree advances in 2 degree increments. I used a 10 degree advance and the engine ran out of breath at 3500 rpm. The factory xfi cam has 4 degrees cut into it. The regrinds are on a stock cam so you have to get an advanced gear to simulate the genuine xfi cam. The one I bought about 8 years ago is still running strong with no problems.

Ultra-Orange 06-30-2018 10:51 PM

Crank sensor.... I totally missed that, Thank you!

So I use my 96 short block and hopefully find an XFI transmition for the higher gear ratio. XFI cam (or equivalent eco grind cam). Any differences in the heads?

What about the pistons? I have heard that the XFIs use different (2 ring) pistons. Any real difference there or is it just reduced internal friction from fewer rings?

I havent run a compression check yet as I was expecting to use the engine as a core for a rebuild XFI motor. but that crank sensor changes things! ill have to check the engines compression.

Thanks for all the help! Talking with someone in the know really smooths things out!

me and my metro 07-01-2018 11:43 AM

The crank sensor actually attaches to the oil pump. The blocks are the same. The oil pan for the OBD2 engines are different for the sensor.
Just use all the stuff that is on your 96 engine. Match the oil pump gasket to the pump, there are a couple different gaskets overvthe years.
The heads are the same but there are no cam bearings so check your’s out carefully.
You are correct about the two ring pistons. I think they were splitting hair with that. The 95+ four cylinder stick is probably more available for the 3.8 ratio trans than finding an xfi original in good shape.

Ultra-Orange 07-01-2018 01:51 PM

Wow! Lots of good info! Thank you thank you thank you!

is there an easy way to identify the transmitions once they have been removed? (Or swapped)

Thank again man! your knowledge has been invaluable!


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