Your ideal powertrain swap?
 

I've been thinking a lot about engine swaps lately, and I thought to make a thread asking about everyone's dream powertrain swap, and why.

For my Insight, I have the following contenders:

1) Honda Civic Hybrid (1st gen) LDA engine + 5MT

-This is basically the Insight's stock engine, only with a 50% larger electric motor and an extra cylinder. It's so smooth and quiet, you'd almost think it's full electric, and I feel there's a certain elegance to the swap, because most of the wiring would be compatible, including for the hybrid system, and the batteries use the same cells. In the HCH1, which has a much larger frontal area, higher drag, and weighs 50% more, this engine is still good for 60mpg cruising at ~55, so I can't see it being significantly lower than the Insight's stock engine, but with gobs more power. With an aftermarket controller, the electric motor in this engine might actually be enough to power the car while cruising entirely by itself. Best of all, these are cheap and abundant, and I'll probably have a spare engine in a few years once the salt claims the all-steel HCH1 my wife drives.

2) 2016 Honda Civic 1.5T + CVT

-Getting rid of the hybrid battery would greatly increase storage area in the rear hatch. The engine + transmission weigh close enough to the Insight's engine + tranny + battery that it wouldn't much affect the total mass of the car, though weight distribution would be shifted forward a bit. This engine looks marvelous on paper, able to deliver 174-hp/162-lb-ft while also delivering nearly 65mpg cruising in the significantly heavier and less aerodynamic Civic it came from.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-cont...cs-inline1.jpg

3) 2017 Accord Hybrid drivetrain

-This car's drivetrain is fascinating to me. Honda touts the 2.0L Atkinson engine as the most efficient in the world, at something like 42-43%. It's mostly a series hybrid, with the ~140HP engine generating electricity for the ~200HP electric motor, which can take the 3600lb Accord to 60 in under 7 seconds. When cruising at certain speeds, there's a clutched single-speed transmission which connects the gasoline engine directly to the wheels. It has no belts or accessories, and like the Insight, has heat-recovery systems that aren't found in any other Honda. The car it comes from is rated 49 city / 47 highway, and I'd be curious what kind of economy I could get in a car literally half the size and weight. The previous generation Accord hybrid came in a plug-in variant, with a 13 mile range with its 6.7kwh battery. I would be surprised if I couldn't get 25 miles or more out of it.

4) As fascinating as the above 3 engines are, I can't help but feel that gasoline engines are on their way out. With cheap Nissan Leaf motors and batteries on the market, and the Bolt about to bring 200 mile EVs "mainstream", it makes me wonder if it's a good idea at all to put a gas engine into this car. The Leaf battery's range would probably be at least 50% better in the Insight at modest cruising speeds, and I expect 150-300 miles would really suit my needs. An EV conversion might even end up being cheaper, all said and done, because of the fabrication and special parts required for the above swaps.

Kubota twin cylinder with a Toyo rear electric transaxle.

1989 1ltr Non-turbo Diesel Charade, also with the Toyo rear electric transaxle :)

Sane swap: Camry hybrid powertrain into a Prius. Would almost double the power and be a few hundred pounds lighter than the Camry.

Less sane swap: Sane swap plus a rear engine LS setup (similar to what guys do with Fieros). 200hp and 40+MPG most of the time, 600+hp AWD when you crank up the V8. Ultimate hustler-mobile at the drag strip.

For my Malibu?

I would like to get hands on the LEA code engine from the 14-15MY Equinox... The geometry is the same as my L61, but the engine utilizes variable valve timing and direct injection, and makes 185hp... I would ideally couple it to the taller final drive 4T45 transaxle from the six cylinder Malibu and tune it to work together... The more efficient engine, coupled with taller gearing, should provide a good bump in highway fuel mileage...

I've got stuff sitting around already that could be arranged into.. uh... interesting combos.

Escort diesel drivetrain into Tempo (easiest- practically a bolt-in worth 45+ mpg). Or make a fwd '68 Chev C10 worth what- 35-45 mpg?

'89 Park Avenue with one of the all-time greatest engines, the 3800 V6... stretch the pan and put the entire chassis under my spare '59 Biscayne body; the floor on that is gone anyway. A 30 mpg full-sized fwd daily driver classic with more snort and handling than the original... I like that idea.

Metro 1.0 5speed m/t into Fiero. Take some weight out, convert to m/t, and chop the top too. Would it fit in front? If so, then the car would have an enormous and useful trunk. Nice small frontal area and sporty good looks the Metro simply doesn't have. (sorry)

I want this
http://cdn3.volusion.com/tquwf.ssxza.../KD625-2-3.jpg

in this
http://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uplo.../chevette2.jpg

That's a Kohler (formerly Lombardini) KD625-2 two cylinder, air cooled diesel engine to install into a Chevette. For preference, I would want to use the Scooter model, as it's the lightest of the bunch at a mere 1843 pounds.

Power would be way down on this little rig, but let's be real - no one ever expected a diesel Chevette to win any drag races. So long as it moved under its own power, it was meeting expectations.

Another little tidbit: the Kohler, while delivering a lot less power than the 4FB1 Isuzu diesel it replaces, is also over 100 pounds lighter.

I just think it would be fun to approach a project like Planejob's nicely put-together diesel Metro, except take it to that weird, what-the-hell-were-you-smoking place. Still (ostensibly) a GM product, still a diesel, and who knows? It might work.

I wonder if the G10 (A or B) could be converted to flat-3 orientation. You'd need a new oil pickup in the sump and doubtless some kind of well sealed windage tray, probably a completely new sump really. That might get it low enough to fit under the hood of a Fiero.

The idea of a Fiero with lots of trunk space is just funny. I like that.

A "power" dome on the hood would work too. And be easy.

I just loooove this chopped Fiero. Mine wouldn't be a wide-body though.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps0kixholc.jpg

AM 5.9 V12 into the Mustang.

Because V12.

I tend to agree, but it's a whole different ballgame.

Powertrain from the 2017 Acura MDX Sport Hybrid:

Acura Wants To Beak Free With 2017 MDX Facelift

This rear drive unit has more power than the Toyota/Lexus rear axle, and twice what the Arcimoto SRK spec is (although I can't find a reference). The torque vectoring is a big deal, at least to me. The SRK has it but the Toyota MGR is an open diff.

The donor vehicle should be the oldest, weirdest VW-powered whatever ever. Today I'm partial to the front-wheel drive Tempo Rapide Kombi:

http://www.imcdb.org/i234029.jpg
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_234029-Tempo-Rapid-Kombi-1959.html

The power it has is directly related to how much voltage and amperage it's fed... It would take an aftermarket controller, but I imagine that unit could handle much more than it was intended for...

I can get behind this. In my spare time I used to doodle VW buses powered by modern Honda / Toyota engines.

Geo Metro XFi drivetrain in a CRX!
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1471680970

Some of the swaps I've thought about:
VW TDI ALH engine in an S10 or Ranger
Yaris diesel engine and manual trans in a Prius
CRX HF or Civic VX engine in a Civic Wagon
Cummins 4BT in an older Chevy pickup
Nissan LD28 diesel in a 240Z/260Z/280Z
Metro 3-cyl in a Samurai

Purely for economy, I could entertain doing a Mercedes OM616 diesel in an old Ranger like I used to drive, but for all around performance, I'd almost rather a 4.8LS/T56... Plenty of power, and probably decent mileage with proper gearing...

How close to a stock drivetrain are we talking?

I am quite fond of Honda offerings, but their previous hybrids have missed the mark a bit and the new ones are for heavy cars.

I would like an L15B or R18A1 with titanium intake valves, a small centrifugal supercharger, and something like GM e-Assist (not particularly difficult to retrofit) with lithium ion batteries.

It would be tremendous fun at 8000rpm with a manual transmission, and extremely fuel efficient :D

I don't think staying close to stock or even in earshot of it is a goal in this thread.

Well see that opens up maybe too many doors haha, because you can use stuff that isn't really mass produced yet. For example I would want an electrically assisted turbo, which only F1 cars use, or a CVT drive turbo.

My ideal would be 4 cylinders, 86mm stroke or shorter so it can get near 9000rpm, using the lightest/smallest block that can be bored out to around 1.6L, with switchable cam profiles e.g. VTEC so it can have an Atkinson cycle mode. Add a mild hybrid system, and if the car is a little heavier add a small amount of boost, no more than 0.4 bar for minimal lag.

DIY EV fun (aka powerful) drivetrain in a tastefully aeromodded 280Z. I've wanted to do this one for quite some time. However, I can't justify building an EV summer car that I can only drive half the year.

This one is even for sale right in my town...

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1473362853

With the Tempo's mid-front layout it would be like a ninja mini-Previa.

Accepted practice is a Subaru swap; but the tidiest inline-4 install I've seen was this Pinto 4 in a dune buggy:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...3-100-0891.jpg

The buggy has essentially no engine compartment. The battery is laid on it's side and the muffler is tucked right up against the block. Without the boxer heads there is a lot of opportunity for diffuser, internal ducting and maybe a teardrop pant around the engine block.

2000-2006 Honda Insight 5spd in an Elio

You've taken this out of the realm of possibility.

The '96-up 3.8 is excellent, that it did 35 mpg in my dad's 96 Bonneville is why i swapped the RWD-configured version from a 96 Camaro into an 83 RX-7. No regrets, but in a Biscayne you want the supercharged version. Then sell the supercharger and turbo it. Google FieroX for how this idea runs 9s in the standing quarter mile while still passing emissions and getting 40 mpg.
The Fiero lacks headroom and has too much chassis twist, those are the main reasons why i sold both of mine, but they also need a lot of help with the brakes, and if you can't score an 88 for the corrected suspension geometries front and rear, with the v6 and 5 speed, for the best transaxle, then skip Fieros entirely.

Dunno what an Elio is, or why this is impractical, but given an adequate budget, i have the skills to make it happen. Who has the money?

Just do a RWD conversion and an LSx conversion to the Prius. The are are no transaxles that will work, for under $5k, at 600+ HP, but there is NO reason you can't have 30 MPG with 1000 RWHP, emissions legally. And with a proper suspension, you can hook it, plan on needing wheelie bars and needing new Mickey Thompson Sportsman Pros every month.
Or do it AWD, like a fake Syclone. Those boxy little S10s arent bad for mpg because they are so narrow, i got mine to 38 mpg.

Not actually a wide body above the belt line, just reducing how much the lower body curves under could be changed to reduce drag. But again, these cars already lack head room.

Because the 4.8 isn't enough displacement for its heads, it has less mpg potential than the 5.3, especially with a t56, 4.8s need more cruise rpm. If you are going to waste its potential by not turbocharging it, a t5 would be better.

BMW 850s are cheap donors, but better to do an F250's Triton V10, the later 3-valve version, with the TR3650 and a 2.73:1 axle. Then add a pair of turbos.

The boost pressure has little to do with lag. Being a 1.6L you want all the boost pressure the engine can hold. Choose accordingly. GM's 2.0L Ecotec can be built to 1200 horsepower.

Who has the Elio?

I count 6 posts in 16 minutes. You can hit the edit button within five minutes of posting with no penalty.

I test drove a Ford F150 with a Mercedes OM617 5-cyl turbodiesel in it. Great swap!

ADHD, sorry.

S'okay.

Did you get the part about Elio hasn't shipped product?

In some sense you're right. With a supercharger, when you hit the throttle the supercharger will be flowing slightly more air than it does at steady state full throttle (full boost), quickly pressurizing the plenum.

However that pressurization takes a few tenths of a second depending on how big the plenum, throttle, and supercharger are. For 0.1-0.2 extra seconds the engine will be building torque, and that is perceptible lag.

With turbos, it's even worse. I have driven the FA20DIT turbo engine in the WRX and a BMW N20 powered car before, and it takes half a second to a full second before you stop feeling the boost building. I prefer the crisp, responsive throttle of an NA engine even if it means less power.

I don't really need high horsepower, I have a < 1 ton MR2 Spyder which at 190hp is already pretty fun. I think the sweet spot is somewhere in the low 200s. I only pick a 1.5-1.6L engine because it frees up space in the engine bay a bit and fits in with the spirit of this forum (fuel economy), otherwise I would have said Honda K24, which will do 300hp naturally aspirated.

Not quite. Lag is time between putting your foot in it and feeling acceleration. Turbo lag is time waiting for any boost pressure in the intake ports. While it may take an extra tenth to get the extra pressure, you don't need full boost to feel the result. Having driven a mid 90s Z28 with a rear turbo, I can say that a quarter second of lag is no problem, and speccing the turbo itself and the tubing sizes is far more important than how far the turbo is from the engine.
I readily admit that 500 rwhp is more than enough for a 3500 pound car on public roads, but it does NOT matter how many mpg it does if it isn't fun to drive. Anyone who thinks 200 is enough has never driven 500.

I drove a Jaguar F-TYPE yesterday. 500+ HP is incredibly fun, but I think 200 is more than enough!

I raise your 500HP, 3600lb car one 500HP 1800lb car:

https://youtu.be/vOBL62GTR_I

^ I probably wouldn't want to own one though. I'm somewhat surprised to see as many all-out performance swaps being suggested here; I have a hard time accepting giving up a lot of fuel economy in the name of power. Any swap I would seriously consider wouldn't give up much in the way of economy, and preferably would improve in both.

The guys with 600- horse turbo 4s arent getting any more mpg than the guys eith 600-horse turbo LSx V8s backed by T56s. Bumping the LSx to 900 hp is easy, and wont break it, and affe ts neither mpg at cruise, nor emissions. The 4 cylinder guys cant honestly make such a claim. So why not jump on the LSx bandwagon? Mpg doe s nt matter if it isnt fun to drive, every single mile you drive it.

I have a blast driving my 67HP Insight. Horsepower isn't the only thing that makes a car fun.

:turtle:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...psvj8ml2ly.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8046668&sid=6d40e5383c52370667c871 027cc31096#8046668

This is a 25hp VW engine case that's been bumped from IIRC 1125 to 1578cc. Machined for Porsche valve train parts with Deano's reproduction Okrasa dual-port heads. I forget what the turbo is from.

What'd that get him (Darrel Vittone)? 151.4mph in the flying mile at Mojave, CA. I like the rear bumper extensions.

Also Jay Leno had a BMC Mini with a BMW motorcycle head on a recent yesterday's episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baB9CjOmwWc

Me too. After all, going fast and getting caught are very expensive these days. 100+ mph is a FELONY in my State. I can do that in my stock Tempo.

And if I do decide to engage in felonious behavior I'll do it on the V-Max. Why drag 3000 lbs of tin and plastic along with if I want acceleration and speed?