ZERO OHM plug wires for more mpg?
 

Read the reviews.....

Granatelli MPG/Plus Gas Saving Ignition Wire Sets - JCWhitney


Read the patents?

Kiker Performance Product 3

Ignition spark enhancing device - Google Patent Search

If you're reading zero Ohms, try a more sensitive meter. But the amount of energy lost to electric resistance in the spark plugs is not a large burden on the alternator, even with stock wires.

Most larger-diameter plug wires, and all capacitor-equipped spark plugs, belong in the Unicorn Corral. Especially Pulstar plugs, whose claims of scientifically proven fuel economy are based on defective testing in very unrepresentative engine loading conditions.

How many of you unicorns are there in the corral...anyway?

More almost every day...

^^

And you need some resistance in your wires to reduce the EMI spike.

...and, it's also there to extend/lengthen the "arc-duration" after the initial "arc" is established.

...if you want more info on *why & how* I'll be glad to explain.

...Zero Ohm wires are OK for drag racing, but NOT for fuel economy!!

I'm pretty sure of the hows, just not the why's, so explain away.

Someone do some ABA testing on these! reviews are overall pretty good, but most people don't replace their plug wires when they should, typical gains are usually because the old wires were bad, not because the new wires are better than any other new wire (in my experience anyway).

I have been setting up ignitions for better spark with the following.

MSD or MALLORY Multi Spark Digital Systems. ( I prefer Mallory Digital.)

MSD Spiral Wound Universal Plug Wire Sets.

Non Resistive Spark Plugs : ie BP6ES.( For my engines.)

Spark Gap 0.050".

Brass center rotor contact and non resistive rotor.

This will give you a fat spark and correct Rf suppression without resistors in the plugs and wire ends like a lot of systems, ie : VW and Audi, pre COP Systems....or indeed the Carbon Saturated Wires.

Resistance kills spark power although giving RF necessary for today's computer wiring.

GM found some years ago that 0.100 ( One Hundred Thou. ) was the optimal spark gap for best initiation of compressed air/fuel mixtures. However, the gap was too large to sustain for long. ...so now they run 45thou to 60thou gaps.

You have to run resistance in the ignition system to comply with Federal Law.
A resistance load will give you a higher voltage spark up to a point.

If you cannot afford a MSD/MALLORY use a GM ignition system.

If you Google 'Ignition' or 'GM Ignition' there are a couple of sites detailing how to install a GM power unit and HP Coil to most any type ignition.

Next best system, although a little dated now was the Dodge type.....1975 up to around 1980 'ish. All salvageable from your local wrecking yard.

Another company used to sell Variable Coils...Jacobs Ignition. You can still find these on eBay and Craiglist for time to time. They seemed to work well but died due to people installing them in hot engine bays....they need cooling, just like the MSD/MALLORY does.

I installed a MALLORY on a NPR truck that I installed a 360ci Dodge engine in last year and it's still going strong but I installed the spark unit on the chassis rail away from the engine heat.

increasing spark energy potential to the plug is helpful to a more efficient cylinder firing event but only to a point.

the way i see it, low resistance wires and hi output coils do not add efficiency, but rather they help prevent the loss of same.

if your spark plug can produce a sufficient arc with the existing factory designed equipment, then the upgrades to wiring or coil are not needed.

BUT, if you put higher strains on the spark plug's ability to arc that gap to the point of misfire, like increasing compression ratios, turbocharging or supercharging, altering fuel ratios, enlarging plug gaps THEN ignition wire and coil upgrades make sense.

Multiple Spark Discharge boxes are another thing... they do help improve low rpm cylinder firing and can help improve economy since they are in effect throwing numerous arcs.

The simplest way to upgrade your ignition system is to 1. increase spark plug gap, 2. use the thinnest wire electrode spark plug available. and 3. index your spark plugs if they are not centrally located in the cylinder.

IF your ignition cannot hold up to the increased demands now asked of it thru the increased gap, then look to fix the problem in the system that is breaking down first. Typically it's the spark plug wires first, the coil second, and the ignition design limitations third.

...two very important "spark plug ignition" characteristics are: (1) spark "rise-time" and (2) arc "duration."

..."some" resistance in the sparkplug wire is actually needed/used to "prolong" the arc duration time, which is necessary to ensure complete ignition of lean A/F mixtures in high turbulence cylinders.

...spark "rise-time" is what's important when attempting to get the spark to initially "jump" across the spark plug gap and NOT be shunted to ground though oily-carbon buildup on the spark plug insulator (ie: older worn engine)...faster is better here!

...arc "duration" is what ensures that ALL the A/F mixture in a high-turbulence cylinder "sees" an ignition source (the "arc") with sufficient energy (>30 mJ) for long enough (~1000 uS)...here longer is somewhat better (too long, and plug erosion becomes excessive).

I agree.

Champion Plugs did a research paper and submitted the following:

Drivers cannot perceive one misfire in five on a regular production engine at roads speeds of 30mph and up..( I'm quoting from memory you understand from about 35 years ago.)

I must say I agree, due to the Misfire ECU program on most late model engines detecting misfire you can't feel....for the most part.

Because of valve slide-seating, ( Loose Valve Guides.) plug flash overs, poor fuel mixing and these type of events, a miss will happen from time to time on the best ic engines .

By creating a fat/hot spark, fewer miss events happen and economy is improved.
Once a fuel mixture is ignited , it is ignited, and no magic spark, wires or plug can make that any better.

What the idea is, is to have a spark that is more likely to cause a burn than not and what most European/Asian coil, wire, plug ignition systems don't do, is, fire every event.

My experience is over 45 years in this field, racing, road track and duration racing. There is a some hp and mpg to be gained with a premium ignition system.

The old Kettering points where the worst for misfires induced by the action of the points.....plus wear and tear retarding the timing.

A low resistive load will cause the coil to build more voltage before the avalanche of electricity pushes through and jumps the plug gap than none at all..

The MSD wires I use have a built in resistive loading but are very low per foot run. They are so designed so the resistance stays constant unlike those crappy Red generic wires from Auto**** and O'R*****s that last a year if your fortunate..

The MSD spiral wire around a ferric core induces it's own resistance and makes them low Rf without causing the coil to have a hernia pushing current through the solid resistive carbon wires.


Unashamedly crass product promotion :

The MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Wire is "the" performance wire.Engineered from the inside out, the 8.5 offers everything you have everwanted in a wire; incredibly low resistance without electronic interference! In a single 12 inch length of Super Conductor Wire there is only 40 - 50 ohms of resistance! That is the lowest resistance of any helically wound wire. To accomplish this, we use a copper alloy conductor due to it's great voltage carrying capabilities. The low resistance results in less loss in spark energy so more reaches the spark plug. The conductor is wound extremely tight around a special center core. So tight in fact, that there is over 40 feet of conductor wrapped into a single foot of plug wire. This winding procedure, combined with a ferro-magnetic impregnated center core, produces an extremely effective Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI) "choke". This choke, or suppression capability, keeps the EMI inside the wire where it cannot interfere with other electronics on your vehicle. The outer sleeve that surrounds the conductor assembly is just as impressive. A proprietary blend of silicone and synthetic material produce a sleeve that is highly resistant to high heat as well as abrasion and tears. The MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Plug Wire is available in Universal Kits and Bulk Lengths.

I say ya'll are barking up the wrong tree. Just go with a small ignition coil mounted directly on the spark plug.

''I say...I said, lookee here...if there was a COP system that was under $100.00 I guess I'd do it.....maybe.'' '' We're cheap, remember ?'':rolleyes:

''I dont know...pay attention there.'' ;)

just go find where the Blues Brothers live and take their car, it had cop suspension, a cop engine, cop radio, cop interior,.... i'm sure it had cop ignition as well, lol

Not sure where I found this....



"Ignition systems that don't work well with platinums are most likely non-electronic. The finer electrode on the platinum(in Bosch and NGK's case anyways) has a lower firing voltage, you might not think it's very much but at work the difference between our standard Inconel electrode plug and our Iridium tipped plugs is easily 15k volts.

On some ignition systems, especially older ones, 15k volts can be a significant timing advancement (10-15 degrees) so a car that normally runs fine will knock and end up killing not only the plug but possibly itself because of the timing advancement. Newer vehicles the advancement usually only counts for ~5 degrees at the most and the computer can easily compensate for that if it causes knock.

One solution is to voltage match the plugs, that's what I did in my car after this last round of acetone testing. I took the standard copper plugs it came with and measured voltage at 180psi @ .039" gap (about 42kV) then opened up the gap on an Iridium until it matched, I had to get a .052" gap to match the voltage between them.

Let me tell you, that Iridium at .052 runs WAY better than a stock copper at .039 even though it's the same voltage."

Would like to mention an interesting phenomena on another forum pertaining to recommended ignition wires. I posted the above links on ZERO OHM wire sets and there was some serious scrambling by some posters on this forum to WARN people away from these ZERO OHM wires...some from people admitting to being representatives of other aftermarket wire suppliers.

So the "spamming" goes both ways? Some hyping doubtful technologies...some warning people away from newer technologies to protect their market share?

So...look both ways before you cross the tracks?

Someone other than DKV was doing that? :confused:

My biggest concern with zero (or, as I would suspect, almost zero ohm) wires would be the amount of radio frequency interference likely to occur. As was explained to me, such wires will interupt radio frequencies, the most noticeable would be a whining noise when listening to a radio station, and that it may affect sensitive electronics.

As far as a small ignition coil mounted directly to the spark plug, it is common in many Japanese vehicles as early as the mid 90s. My Maxima is one, as well as vehicles such as the 2000 Chevy tracker and mid 90s Isuzu Rodeos, and on some high performance Mitsubuisi cars. I believe some Ford cars also have it, and some produe such a strong spark the grounding electrode could erode away and the car still run fine.

I would think the easier solution would be to get a hotter coil and open the gap on the spark plug a bit.

Seems as though all this discussion has become moot, since spark plugs are slated to become outdated technology: Lasers Could Replace Spark Plugs, Making Engines More Efficient | Popular Science

yes, lasers, led illumination, solar panels, and kamm shaped bodies are all on the horizon, but the $$ of buying the new car won't offset my need for a larger gapped fine wire spark plug lol.

I want the test equipment in your garage!!

What's your address?? ;-)

FWIW--Laser Ignitiators are already in-use in space-based products, both for combustion ignition (thrust motors) and explosives (detonators).

Hopefully it's gassers that will become outdated, and not just spark plugs. :D

Diesel baby!

IIRC, they've been "coming in the next year or two" for at least five years so far... I personally am not holding my breath.

-soD

Fat wires are for insulation against heat in the engine compartment. For road use I still recommend ignition sealer around the distributor cap if it is near the front of the engine. I had 4 cyl. FWD car simply quit on the road during heavy rain.

Something else of note, if you are making your plugs "Hotter" on antique vehicles don't be surprized if it causes other issues.

My subaru 360 is notorious for burning holes in pistons when the plugs are too hot. I would estimate there are other antiques with this same issue.

MSD 8.5's seem to work
 

I put these on my car along with a light weight battery and it ran smoother and probably more efficiently too.$40 Lightweight battery - YouTube

The 8.5 refers to insulation thickness. The conductor resistance needs to be within a certain range as listed in the repair manual. Too little resistance in the wires allows spark noise (electromagnetic radiation) that interferes with the electronic control modules and the nearby radio or cell phone. Unless you got a great deal on the wires the extra price is not warranted since the stock wire insulation is adequate in this case. Depending on what part of the country you are in winter temperatures will affect the output of the battery. A blanket over the engine, a heat lamp underneath, and trickle charge on the battery may be needed below 15 F. For now enjoy the benefits of the tune up and reduced weight. I no longer work in a NAPA auto parts store but we did sell high performance ignition components to drag racers.

:D

Retired cop cars are fun. I've found they will get the family through hard times, but the car takes the first chance to fall apart (without causing you too much trouble) it is given.

Do you mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8G0e81hN4M


:D

-soD

If your spark plug wires have zero (or close to zero) resistance, they also have zero (or close to zero) RFI suppression. While that may not be a big deal for some engines, for ECU controlled engines it'll wreak havoc.

Head over to the Magnecor website, it explains a lot. Especially how the direct current pulses in the ignition aren't as affected by resistance as those "low-resistance" wire sites would lead you to believe.

Oh, I don't know about that. Ever tried a Pulstar plug? I'm running one now. Gotta say, I'm impressed by it.

First time I fired up with it installed, the engine idled about 750 RPM faster than normal, until the ECU dialed back the idle air bypass valve (idle speed on this bike is ECU controlled) after about 5 minutes. And the engine's got snap to it now that it didn't have with the iridium plug I'd been using (that only had 5200 miles on it)... I've read in a few places that single-iridium plugs don't work well with waste-spark systems, for some reason. The rough idle's gone, too... and I've previously torn down the entire bike from air filter to intake valve, from fuel tank to fuel injector looking for the reason for the rough idle.

As for large-diameter wires... they're the same as smaller-diameter wires, with more insulation. The wire I bought is rated to 80,000 volts. My new coil (not installed yet, but will be soon) is rated to 60,000 volts to replace the OEM 25,000 volt coil, but it's temporary until my electronics guy gets done building the corona discharge ignition system. Which is why I bought 10 mm wire in the first place, for the extra insulation.

You are a unicorn and I claim my $5.

How, exactly, does witnessing the bike idling 750 RPM faster than normal (remember, it's not adjustable, the ECU controls idle speed) for the first 5 minutes after installing the Pulstar plug (with no other changes to the bike), and immediately noticing that the rough idle the bike's experienced since 05 Jun 2011 (at 797.4 miles, I keep very detailed logs) was now completely gone, and this after I'd previously torn down the bike from the gas tank to the fuel injector, from the air cleaner to the intake valve in trying to track down the source of the rough idle... how exactly is that "Unicorn"?

Or perhaps you're referring to my going to a hotter coil, and eventually to a custom-built corona discharge system? That's because this bike is a rolling test platform, and I'll be experimenting with alternative fuels and lean lambda, so I'm going to need a hot spark to light the fire.

Pardon my skepticism, but the ECU delay getting back down to 'normal' 750 rpm idle just MIGHT be the ECU "re-learning" it's parameters after having been "reset" by a battery disconnection.

What about "the spark plug was the only change made on the bike" is making it hard for you to understand?

Do you disconnect the battery to put in a new spark plug? LOL

I've got some PulseStars but they've made no difference in running or economy.

The USArmy(*) tested those plugs when they FIRST came out back in late 1970's-early 1980's and they were no better than standard OEM plugs.




(*) U.S.Army Automotive/Tank Command, Yuma Proving Ground (YPG), Yuma, AZ.

Impossible. Lou Camilli didn't work with pulsed power technology for Sandia Labs until 1987-1988, and the first iteration of the Pulstar technology (the precursor to the HotShot) didn't come out until 1994, and was only marketed to racers. The first patent for the Pulstar technology wasn't even filed until 1999. HotShots didn't come out until 2001. The first Pulstar plug wasn't released until 2006.

FYI, this is why I bought the plug, given that I'll be experimenting with alternative fuels and lean lambda:

ASME Journal
Paper Number: ICEF2012-92165
Published: September 2012

Paper Number: 2012-01-1151
Published: April 2012

I think if your ignition system is already doing well at lighting the fire, you likely won't show an improvement. For motorcycles, especially waste spark systems that are already on the edge due to increased compression and high RPMs, they apparently do.

I haven't been able to verify any MPG difference with the plug because two tankfuls ago, I changed out my rear gears for 15% taller gears, then one tankful ago I swapped in the Pulstar. But it does idle smooth now, and that can only be attributed to the Pulstar, given that it was the only change made immediately prior to the bike starting to idle smooth.