BOOK: Ingenious: Behind the scenes of the Auto X-Prize.

[NeilBlanchard]

In-wheel motors are typically more efficient, since they lack and gear friction, etc. The solar car Stella has in-wheel motors that are ~98.4% efficient (IIRC) though they are low torque at ~14ft/lbs. Unsprung weight is the main issue with in-wheel motors. SIM Drive is another in-wheel system with impressive efficiency.

I think that regen is mostly related to torque, and to battery charging rates. The FVT eVaro had 100% of it's active braking power from regen, though obviously, it could not have all that put back in the battery. My guess is that this would be limited by the losses in the motor(s) and the charger and in the battery cells, and BMS if used.

[sheepdog 44]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Q&A with 'Ingenious' author Jason Fagone on the legacy of X Prize [w/video]

The comments about "we need a better battery" miss the point of the X-Prize, which showed that we need better cars. Seven is about 2X as efficient as most OEM EV's. It has ~2.5X the range of the Leaf using a battery that is less than 50% larger capacity. The eVLC has more range than the Leaf with less than half the battery.

That's the saving grace of the X-prize vehicles that i believe ensures their future in electric cars. If you can offer more range for the same price, you basically undercut the competition. You have a higher top speed. You get more miles faster as you charge, and your battery pack will also last longer as it cycles less often.

In a gas car, once you get past 50mpg, your just cutting smaller fractions out of $4.00 a gallon gas. The savings on mpg past that amount aren't enough, and people are willing to procrastinate till gas get's pass $8.00 a gallon and the return makes more sense. You also have a less powerful, though more efficient engine. While EV's can have great efficiency with high power motors.

[XprizeRoadTrip]

Book tour made it to Edison2's turf today. Edison2's CEO, Oliver Kuttner, was supposed to appear, and I assume there was a VLC at the event as well. Waiting on photos and info from Jason Fagone and Team Illuminati. It'll be good for all of them to share some time together; Xprize veterans are few and far between.

[XprizeRoadTrip]

Best final photos so far are on West Philly's Facebook page. Sorry to non-FB ecomodders, but this is where the only ones are at this point and I haven't taken time to pull down and re-post. Maybe someone else can.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...5503931&type=1

It's a rare thing these days to see people from Edison2, West Philly and Illuminati in a single photo let alone with Jason Fagone.

[freebeard]

Is the pool of people who will hold their nose and touch Facebook still larger than those who won't?

It's a rare thing these days to see people from Edison2, West Philly and Illuminati in a single photo let alone with Jason Fagone.

...oh to be a fly on that wall.

[XprizeRoadTrip]

OK Facebook haters and those too lazy to do what I just did. Here's the link: Xprize reunion Dec 2013 - a set on Flickr

And here's the photos.

[freebeard]

No time for h8.

http://http://yro-beta.slashdot.org/...ivate-messages

They seem happy enough.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hey! Someone quoted most of my post, without attribution:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Jason Fagone has a well written article up on Wired:

Big Automakers Won't Build the Car of the Future, Small Inventors Will | Wired Opinion | Wired.com

Here's my comment from that article:

A part of the discussion that is missing is a chicken and egg thing - expectations of buyers and the willingness of car makers to build something new and different. Witness the fact that most/all EV's have a "grill" even though they don't need one. This is partly because many EV's are conversions, and partly because most buyers are squeamish, and won't even consider something "weird.

All design is compromise, and with less available energy onboard an EV, aerodynamic efficiency is far more important when you need the range. Gasoline is so energy packed, that it has made engineers lazy, in my opinion.

The design of an EV also has to start with the placement of the battery, for Cg considerations and for making it work with the needs of a practical car. Other important pieces in building an EV is heat for the defroster and keeping the people inside warm. There is a HUGE excess of heat on every ICE - indeed this is the red flag pointing to their horribly low efficiency.

EV's need direct heating windshield defrosters, like Ford and others had in the 1980's: a molecule thick coating of gold on the glass that defrosts it in seconds. Heated seats and/or heated vests (like motorcyclists use) can keep the people in the car toasty warm for just a few 10's of watts, instead of 1,000's. Also, thermal insulation in the body can go a long way to reducing both heating and cooling loads.

Really low aero drag requires that the boxy mold be broken. The EV1 and the VW XL1 have narrower rear wheel tracks. Tapering the sides of the car can save as much as 40% of the overall drag. Covered rear wheels *at least* is also required. And covering the front wheels is also very helpful - see the 1938 Schlörwagen aka "Pillbug". ( Schlorwagen Photo by NeilBlanchard | Photobucket ) It has a Cd of 0.18 and that would be considerably lower with an electric drivetrain; because of the much lower cooling required. This can save up to ~10% of the aero drag.

I know of at least two awesome cars that were being built for the X-Prize that didn't get to compete; for various reasons including the rash of regulations and paper work:

Dave Cloud's 'Dolphin' is an aerodynamic wonder forged from a heavily modified Metro, that has two seats and goes over 200 miles on *lead acid* batteries.

Ken Fry's 'The Zing!' is a tandem two seater tadpole trike built from scratch, and is a true serial hybrid.

I'm looking forward to seeing both Jason Fagone and Kevin Smith (of Illuminati) and Seven next Monday, the 9th at MIT!

[freebeard]

Bummer. I'll take your word and not give them a page visit.

EV's need direct heating windshield defrosters, like Ford and others had in the 1980's: a molecule thick coating of gold on the glass that defrosts it in seconds.

Quickclear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10 or so years ago a UK VW magazine had adverts for Beetle windshields of this material. I think even flat safety glass is laminated from two pre-cut pieces of glass with the laminate layer trimmed after the fact. I wish I was wrong. I could have electric glass to boost the puny defrosters in my split window VW.

[NeilBlanchard]

The gold version was available in 1974 on a couple of models:

Gold Heated Glass

electric defrosting windshields ? | FordForumsOnline.com