BOOK: Ingenious: Behind the scenes of the Auto X-Prize.

[NeilBlanchard]

It was excellent to see Seven yesterday, and to talk with Kevin Smith & co and Jason Fagone (fa-GO-ne), as well. Also, it was great to meet some of the MIT Electric Vehicle Team. Here are the pictures I took:



And here is a video of Seven getting unloaded from the the trailer - it will play correctly, even though the thumbnail is sideways:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKZUp...yer_detailpage

The discussion was wide-ranging (as you might expect) so, ask any questions you might have and I'll try and answer.

[freebeard]

"...the gull-wing doors are completely".

What?

It's like a stretched-out Volkhart-Sagitta with a shallow windshield.

[sheepdog 44]

I should have gone, but i didn't want to driving the masspike at night in potentially icy weather. And i was told half the event was students only.

It looks more aero and less art deco than i thought. Okay:
What are the specs? weight, power, kwh, what tires are they using etc.
Did someone ask about the build process for the carbon fiber body?
Whats the interior like as far as occupant roominess, or cargo capacity.
Is there an odd space in that boat tail that can fit a random 2x4?
What are his future plans for it?
Does he drive it regularly, whats the mileage on it?
Completely smooth underbody?
Did you see any cool projects in the MIT garage?

I found this video from the New Jersey stop. Kevin seems more talkative than the book made him out to be. And Jason's last name did make for an awkward conversation on the phone with the Barnes' noble lady, when i asked if they had the book in stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkQ-yL3Z76Y

[some_other_dave]

Hey, there was a 914 up on the lift! I wonder if that was getting an EV conversion, or if it was on the lift as a substitute for the more-standard jack stands?

-soD

[NeilBlanchard]

I'll post more details when I have time, but the revised Seven is even more efficient: 129Wh/mile at ~60MPH and it has been driven 220 miles at close to 70MPH - and finished with ~10% charge left. The pack is ~33kWh.

Their drivetrain is about 92%+ plug to wheel if I recall correctly, and this is key; followed by having a Cd <0.23. That was the result of the full EPA test done by Chrysler on the earlier (silver) version of Seven.

Here's their specs page: Seven | Illuminati Motor Works

It is incredibly solidly built, though they full admit to water leaks (they're working on them) and they plan on rubber mounting the motor etc. to lower the noise on the inside.

The 914 is the current project of the MIT Electric Vehicle Team. And I got a pretty good look at the rear suspension, which I'm considering for CarBEN EV5; and I have the email of their parts guy.

The first half was officially for students only, but several of us "adults" showed up and they were happy to have us. There were about 15 or 18 people at the N51 garage and about 30-35 at the book signing / supper in the Coffeehouse lounge.

Oh, about the doors - Kevin Smith pulled it far enough past the 914 to open the doors. I was worried that they would hit it.

Edit: Kevin explained in detail about balancing the pack at the bottom, by fully discharging them. They have now removed the BMS and actually get a bit more range than before, and none of the cells swell or get hot.

[freebeard]

Their drivetrain is about 92%+ plug to wheel if I recall correctly, and this is key

Is that [power drawn to charge/power to the ground]? Any basis for comparison; e.g. to Telsa? Any idea how they reached that level?

[NeilBlanchard]

They have one of the best efficiency motor and controllers available, and they do not use BMS, and the drivetrain has no 90º turns in it. There may be other factors, but those are the ones I remember Kevin Smith mentioning.

As I understand it, typical plug-to-wheel efficiency is ~85%.

The X-Prize version of Seven was in the neighborhood of 156Wh/mile at 60mph, and not it is ~129Wh/mile at 60mph. They now have a sweet reduction gear:



Compared to the one they chewed:

[NeilBlanchard]

By the way, the Edison2 VLC gets close to 100Wh/mile with a DC motor, which are significantly lower plug-to-wheel efficiency, typically. If they used a high efficiency AC motor, then the range would go up.

Question: is it possible for a motor with permanent magnets to free wheel coast *without* generating power? I realized that the MES-DEA motor that Seven has is an induction motor, so the passive spinning generates nothing if the controller is not in regen mode.

Oh, and the MES-DEA motor is no longer sold here in the US, as far as I can tell. I like the looks of the BRUSA SSM1-6.17.12 ( BRUSA SSM1-6.17.12 | Metric Mind Corporation ) along with the Getrag GX629 6.4:1 EV Transaxle assembly ( GX629 6.4:1 EV Transaxle assembly | Metric Mind Corporation ). That puts the ~5500RPM which is the peak efficiency of the motor right about 55-60MPH (depending on the tire diameter you use).

No rare earths used and lower cost (though certainly not inexpensive), and a compact package (roughly 11" x 20"?) with no 90º turns - we may have a winah!

[NeilBlanchard]

Q&amp;A with 'Ingenious' author Jason Fagone on the legacy of X Prize [w/video]

The comments about "we need a better battery" miss the point of the X-Prize, which showed that we need better cars. Seven is about 2X as efficient as most OEM EV's. It has ~2.5X the range of the Leaf using a battery that is less than 50% larger capacity. The eVLC has more range than the Leaf with less than half the battery.

[freebeard]

What do you think about Protean Electric? What does it take to derive the plug-to-wheel efficiency? It seems like their integrated micro-controller feature would promote high efficiency.

Originally Posted by Google

Protean's In-Wheel Electric Motors Coming To Market In 2014 ...
cleantechnica.com/.../proteans-in-wheel-electric-motors-coming-to-market-in -2014/‎
Apr 17, 2013 ... In-wheel electric motor maker Protean claims that by next year, ... motors can reclaim up to 85% of the kinetic energy via regenerative braking.

Is 85% regen any clue?