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Old 05-13-2017, 12:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
What are your best guesstimates of when the 200 mile Leaf and Tesla 3 are available for sale?

I've got a company provided car (Dodge Grand Caravan) that is nearing the end of service and needs to be replaced. I've considered an EV, but I will need something with at least 200 miles range to service my area.
If you actually need the room of a Caravan just buy a Pacifica PHEV
30mpg and 30 miles EV

No range or room worries

Further it is already for sale, no need to wait for 2020

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Old 05-13-2017, 05:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The caravan was a hand-me-down; I don't need the space. I've already got a Prius.

2013 Leafs are showing up more frequently for $7,500 these days and I'm tempted to get one. However, my job requires that I drive a car no older than 4 years. I can either pick from their list (Legacy, Forester, Passat, Caravan, Grand Cherokee), or purchase my own vehicle. If the Runzheimer program allows leases, then maybe I'll lease the Bolt.

I wonder how low the gen I Leafs will go once the new Leaf and Tesla drop? At $7k, I can't imagine them going much lower. Any chance they could hit $3k in the next 2 years? Perfect vehicle for my parents.

... is this true? Quote from one of the reviews Neil linked.

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The default is “D” or “Drive”, in which the Bolt EV behaves much like a normal, gasoline car. When you hit the brake pedal it uses regular friction brakes, but you can trigger regenerative braking – the car’s motor flipping into generator mode, converting energy back into battery power – by pulling the paddle on the left of the steering wheel.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
What are your best guesstimates of when the 200 mile Leaf and Tesla 3 are available for sale?

I've got a company provided car (Dodge Grand Caravan) that is nearing the end of service and needs to be replaced. I've considered an EV, but I will need something with at least 200 miles range to service my area.
Do you have an early Model 3 pre-order? If not, I'm guessing early 2019 at the earliest. With a launch pre-order, early 2018 might be possible, especially if you're on the west coast.

I think Tesla's going to stick to their production estimates though, mostly because they'll need to time their domestic production right to maximize the number/amount of the federal tax credit owners can get. They might hold back some US deliveries to do that as well.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Do we know what the real world range is?
The EV range numbers tests sound even more unrealistic than Ethanol Production Agency fuel economy MPG window sticker numbers.

We need something like J2807, but for EV range.
J2807 is the realistic tow rating tourcher test all the OEMs (but Toyota) are scared of. Pretty much if you attempt J2807 with the manufactures sky high tow number, you will need a new truck about half way through the test.
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Do we know what the real world range is?
The EV range numbers tests sound even more unrealistic than Ethanol Production Agency fuel economy MPG window sticker numbers.

We need something like J2807, but for EV range.
J2807 is the realistic tow rating tourcher test all the OEMs (but Toyota) are scared of. Pretty much if you attempt J2807 with the manufactures sky high tow number, you will need a new truck about half way through the test.
Why, EPA rating is as accurate for EVs "range" as it is for gas fe.

My Volt is EPA rated for 37 miles, it's a very sad day when that is all I get, now that temps are 40+ my range bobs from 65-70 miles.

I don't think we need a 100mph EPA rating metric to be "realistic"
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:35 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm on the Bolt forum, and people are reporting that the official range estimate is a worst case scenario. Most people are getting more range, most of the time.

Apparently the disappointing thing is the seats, auto climate control, and cheap interior.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
... is this true? Quote from one of the reviews Neil linked.
False, it does regen and then friction brakes just like any other EV in D when you brake. It even shows that on the display, not sure why anyone would think otherwise. While GM has made some dumb decisions, they've done a pretty good job designing their EVs.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post

... is this true? Quote from one of the reviews Neil linked.

Quote:
The default is “D” or “Drive”, in which the Bolt EV behaves much like a normal, gasoline car. When you hit the brake pedal it uses regular friction brakes, but you can trigger regenerative braking – the car’s motor flipping into generator mode, converting energy back into battery power – by pulling the paddle on the left of the steering wheel.
No, that is not correct. The Bolt EV has a small amount of regen in D when you lift your foot on the accelerator, and it has regen integrated onto the brake pedal. It is correct about the switch on the back of the left side of the steering wheel.

Driving the Bolt EV in L greatly increases the regen on the accelerator, and that makes the steering wheel switch less of an increase.

The Leaf is similar to the Bolt EV, but lacks the steering wheel switch - and the Leaf is basically the same as the Prius: it has light regen in D and more regen in B mode.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Do we know what the real world range is?
The EPA number is pretty average - many have exceeded it, and if you drive 75MPH and use heat, it will be lower. The Bolt EV dash has a 3 number range: it shows a number based on your recent driving, and then it shows a best case and a worst case number.

I believe the Bolt EV uses elevation data from GPS to adjust the expected range - which is a significant improvement over what we have seen in other cars, so far.

Several folks have reported driving (well?) over 300 miles on a charge, by ecodriving and keeping speeds down.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I'm on the Bolt forum, and people are reporting that the official range estimate is a worst case scenario. Most people are getting more range, most of the time.

Apparently the disappointing thing is the seats, auto climate control, and cheap interior.
I think that MOST of the seat issues stem from the early LT seats. And I am pretty sure there are those who are trolling on this; in order to tamp down Bolt EV sales.

I have not come across the auto climate control comments - can you summarize this? I have to say that I MUCH prefer the HVAC controls in our 2015 Leaf S (which are very conventional), to the 2015 VW e-Golf SEL, which required a dealer applied change to keep it from resetting to 72F EVERY TIME the car was turned off longer than 20 minutes.

As for judgments about the interior - they are just that: personal subjective judgements. The two screens are crisp, and most cars have plastic interiors. I responded to someone on GCR who said it looks "like a $18K car", by asking what DOES an $18K car "look like?"

I didn't get an answer. So, I suspect some of these posters are trolls.

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