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Old 07-01-2017, 09:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joggernot View Post
Very short...11.7 miles round trip for the standard trip twice a day.
You're in Texas, short trips aren't a problem. I find I hit EPA around 1-2 miles from a cold start, depending on the car and therefore techniques used. My Prius does all the really short trips (1-3 miles) and still beats the EPA.

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Old 07-02-2017, 01:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
You're in Texas, short trips aren't a problem. I find I hit EPA around 1-2 miles from a cold start, depending on the car and therefore techniques used. My Prius does all the really short trips (1-3 miles) and still beats the EPA.
I disagree, you still take a hit with cold starts and short trips. Even if you can beat the EPA, you won't beat it by as much as if you had longer trips and a fully warmed up engine.
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:09 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Currently I only have a Trip average display on my 06 Jazz, but I find that it falls for the first 5 miles, on a highway journey, after a cold start, then starts to climb. Does that pretty much no matter how I drive.
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks, for all the advice. Took a weekend trip, and discovered the car will enter DFCO it's just very picky about it. Need to experiment more do see how I can keep the car in that mode.

The torque app crashed on my and I lost average MPG data anyone know if there is a way to keep a backup of this info. Torque does have a logging feature but I can't understand it
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Old 07-02-2017, 09:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
As for DFCO, It's only really helpful when you want to slow down. On the highway, a neutral coast will help you more. I may have already said elsewhere that you may actually be going into DFCO but the torque app may not be reading it properly.
This, are you trying to get DFCO while coasting or when you already have to stop?
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
I disagree, you still take a hit with cold starts and short trips. Even if you can beat the EPA, you won't beat it by as much as if you had longer trips and a fully warmed up engine.
Now you're talking about the difference between a 'reason' and an 'excuse'. Most of what people put down to 'cold start' penalty is more about maneuvering out of your driveway/ parking space/ waiting to turn onto the main road etc. If I reverse out of my drive, it's not unusual to see 100-200l/100km on the SG. That takes a while to average out. If I park in reverse, on a 0*C morning, I can see 5.5 within 1 km in a 2 ton van!

That's also why the Prius does so well on short trips, the EV mode eliminates the "parking maneuver" penalty. 12 miles isn't what I'd call a short trip.

For above freezing, the cold start penalty is fairly small in my experience - even smaller if you have a grill block.
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Don't be discouraged. You may want to check a few things first before starting any hypermiling prematurely and being discouraged by not so stellar results. First make sure you're running some low viscosity synthetics which meet the specs for your car. Amsoil's a good starting point. The K24 on the wife's TSX goes great with the low viscosity ATF and 5w30 with frictional modifiers like ws2 and NMF. Make sure the caliper pins are lubricated on your brakes so the brakes aren't dragging. Also make sure the park brake releases completely too. It could be some no so obvious stuff hanging you up...
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Old 07-04-2017, 10:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vskid3 View Post
This, are you trying to get DFCO while coasting or when you already have to stop?
I was trying to say that DFCO is most beneficial when you are intending to slow down to stop or holding your speed going downhill.
The Torque app comment was regarding my experience. I've used the free version of the Torque app with my Rondo and it doesn't show DFCO where the Scangauge was previously showing it. might just be because it's the free version though.
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Last edited by puddleglum; 07-04-2017 at 11:04 PM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 12:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
Now you're talking about the difference between a 'reason' and an 'excuse'. Most of what people put down to 'cold start' penalty is more about maneuvering out of your driveway/ parking space/ waiting to turn onto the main road etc. If I reverse out of my drive, it's not unusual to see 100-200l/100km on the SG. That takes a while to average out. If I park in reverse, on a 0*C morning, I can see 5.5 within 1 km in a 2 ton van!

That's also why the Prius does so well on short trips, the EV mode eliminates the "parking maneuver" penalty. 12 miles isn't what I'd call a short trip.

For above freezing, the cold start penalty is fairly small in my experience - even smaller if you have a grill block.
I totally agree that there are techniques and mods you can use to minimize the hit, I do it all the time. 99% of my trips are shorter that than to the poster you referenced. You can control how you drive but you can't always control where you have to drive or how many stop signs or traffic density. That all has an effect. You can time lights but you have to stop at stop signs. He doesn't have a Hybrid either which isn't a fair comparison IMO.
Also, his trip is 5.85 miles I think. He said 11.7 round trip. I agree that warm weather reduces the penalty but there is still a penalty. My mileage has been much better since the weather warmed up.
All that and I've still missed re-explaining my point. What I was getting at, and I still believe to be true, is that if all other conditions are equal, a car will burn more fuel from a cold start than from a hot start. That's all. Try that 1 km drive in your van you were describing, after it's had a long run on the highway and tell me if it's not any better.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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In regards to warm up. I watch the oil temp and coolant temp on torque. Anything less than 10 miles is a short trip in my opinion. My car seems to take an eternity to warm up though. Even 55-60 outside and it take near 10 miles for oil to be completely warmed up and coolant around 7 miles. From 180 oil to 220 seems to be a large jump in economy. Just what I have seen. If my car started at full operating temp I could push 60 mpg everyday. Not to mention factoring in cold tires as well. If trips are that short you can bump up a few more psi to compensate for them never truly reaching temps themselves. I typically see 3-4 psi raise on tpms sensors on my 13 mile commute to work. Last 4-5 miles is where the warm up time is where the good Fe numbers show up.

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