Looking to buy 3 cars - Opinions

[redpoint5]

3 women in my life are in need, or close to needing replacement vehicles.

Mom - Has a 1998 Toyota Camry 4 cylinder with 235,000 miles. Runs well.

Friend - Has a 1999 Mazda Protege with 120,000 miles and a bad transmission. It's parked and would cost $1500 to repair.

Fiance - Has a 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix. Don't remember mileage but the car sucks (electrical gremlins and 19mpg ).

It's up to me to purchase replacements since I tout myself as car savvy and a relentless haggler. Here's what I'm looking at:

Mom - $3,000-$8,000 - Corolla, Camry, Civic, Sentra, Elantra, Mazda 3, Golf TDI
Automatic transmission preferred. 50/50 highway/city driving.

Friend - $2,000-$3,000 - Sentra, Corolla, ?
I just taught her how to drive a manual, so this is an option. She doesn't make much money, so she needs a cheap, reliable, efficient vehicle.

Fiance/me - $5,000-???? - Corolla, Mazda 3, Golf TDI, Prius, Leaf
I already have a TSX, but we will need a second vehicle so she can commute to work, get groceries, etc. There is a good chance I can charge at work for free, but my utility rate is $0.076/KWh if not.

I'm considering the Leaf since there is a $7,500 federal tax credit which knocks the price of the one I want down to $25,000. Still a heck of a lot of money even if I get electricity for free. I'm not sure a Leaf could save money in the long run over a $5,000 Corolla, even if you include maintenance/repairs, which I perform myself.

I'm really looking for something reliable that will save money over the course of 150,000+ miles. What do you recommend for each person?

[War_Wagon]

Have I ever got some deals for you! Step into my office here, let me light that cigar for you!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

For your mom and your fiancée I could eventually suggest you to keep your eyes open for a Jetta TDI instead of the Golf. For your friend, a Corolla seems to be a reasonable choice regarding fuel-efficiency, purchase cost and replacement parts availability.

[ciderbarrel]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm considering the Leaf since there is a $7,500 federal tax credit which knocks the price of the one I want down to $25,000. Still a heck of a lot of money even if I get electricity for free. I'm not sure a Leaf could save money in the long run over a $5,000 Corolla, even if you include maintenance/repairs, which I perform myself.

Math to the rescue!

Lets assume the Corolla gets 32 MPG, 15K miles a year. With the Leaf, you get free electricity where ever you park, and all repairs are warranty work.

15,000 miles a year means 468.75 gallons. At $3.599 a gallon, that is $1,687.03 a year in fuel.

The break even point for the Leaf would be 11.86 years. Assume you spend $500 a year in repair costs for the Corolla, it would be 9.15 years. At $1000 in repairs a year, it would take 7.44 years.

[jeff88]

Although a TDI (golf or jetta) would be nice, you also have to remember about being a diesel. Would your mom be ok with a diesel? If OK, then no issue there. The FE of a TDI would be great considering it's ~20MPG better than the Camry. But do the math for your Mom's driving totals and see if it makes sense for the price you find.

For your friend, maybe a manumatic, since she has just learned the "stick" it might be an easier transition to a manual later. I don't know about price though.

For you and your fiance, I would say the same as your Mom, with the TDI issue/non-issue. Between the base FE and some MODs you can do from EM, you can have a really super high mileage vehicle if you get the TDI. Have you considered an SUV? Maybe an Escape Hybrid? You can find them for cheaper than a leaf, but still get some pretty decent mileage (depending on how much city driving- if for errands and grocery shopping and the such, might be useful) and it has a nice amount of stowage space (again useful for errands). You can also look into converting it into a Plug-in, which cost-wise, the Escape and conversion will still be waaaaaaay cheaper than the Leaf. If you're still interested about the leaf, what about the Volt? Price-wise not much better, but still worth looking into.

Just FYI, if in your search you find a decent 8th generation Corolla (1998-2002), make sure it is not burning oil. Check the tailpipe to see if it is black. These engines are notorious for having too small and too few oil return holes and it messes up the whole thing. There are fixes, like replacing the pistons with an update from Toyota, which has bigger and more oil return holes, but that is obviously a lot of work and not something you want to do with a "new" car.

Just my thoughts, I'll probably have more later!...

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by War_Wagon

Have I ever got some deals for you! Step into my office here, let me light that cigar for you!

Still having issues with the Tracker eh?

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

For your mom and your fiancée I could eventually suggest you to keep your eyes open for a Jetta TDI instead of the Golf.

Why the Jetta instead of the Golf? I think I've read the Golf has fewer problems than the Jetta, but I'm no VW expert. Is there a certain year range I should be looking at to avoid costly breakdowns or pesky emissions equipment?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by ciderbarrel

Math to the rescue!

The break even point for the Leaf would be 11.86 years. Assume you spend $500 a year in repair costs for the Corolla, it would be 9.15 years. At $1000 in repairs a year, it would take 7.44 years.

11.86 years would be nearly 180,000 miles given your example!

I've attempted to do the math, but the variables are so many and varied that it's very difficult. I have to estimate the average real price of gasoline over the course of 15 years. Then I have to assume Oregon won't figure out how to charge road tax on electrics over those 15 years. Maintenance/repairs is a consideration, but I've never averaged even $100/yr for any vehicle I've owned. However, I have blown an entire weekend replacing a clutch on a Subaru, so not having to do these repairs is worth something.

If the math came out close, but not quite in favor of the Leaf, I could still be interested since it has modern conveniences such as bluetooth, heated seats/steering wheel. climate control, etc. Not having to calculate and consider the cost of fuel for a given trip is also a relief.

[QUOTE=jeff88;365789]Although a TDI (golf or jetta) would be nice, you also have to remember about being a diesel.[quote]

Mom and Dad aren't picky, and my dad drives my diesel truck already. What special consideration needs to be made about a diesel other than making sure it isn't run out of fuel?

Between the base FE and some MODs you can do from EM, you can have a really super high mileage vehicle if you get the TDI.

What kind of mods are we talking, and how much does it improve mileage? Just wondering if they are diesel specific, or the general aero improvements.

Have you considered an SUV? Maybe an Escape Hybrid? You can find them for cheaper than a leaf, but still get some pretty decent mileage... You can also look into converting it into a Plug-in...

I considered it once when looking at an Oregon State auto auction. I'm not sure how much utility I would get out of it on a regular basis unless I start loading bicycles into it. The plug-in conversion idea sounds like it could be a smart move. I could commute and still get groceries for free. I do make a 130mi round-trip every 2 weeks that would be nice to do for free also, but that only accounts for 3,250 miles per year.

If you're still interested about the leaf, what about the Volt? Price-wise not much better, but still worth looking into.

The math just doesn't seem to suggest it would be the best financial decision. I also hate the idea of having all the maintenance and weight associated with an gasoline vehicle, with the added weight and expense of an electric power plant.

Just FYI, if in your search you find a decent 8th generation Corolla (1998-2002), make sure it is not burning oil.

I'm only looking at 2004 and newer for the fiance and Mom, but that is good info. Any other tips related to the Corolla? I'm leaning towards that option since it's possible to get 40mpg with the manual, and they don't cost too much.

Just my thoughts, I'll probably have more later!...

Thanks! Keep 'em coming. I like to explore ideas I haven't thought of yet, and you have some good ones.

[ciderbarrel]

If we do $32K Volt (164.73 MPG avg according to voltstats) vs used $5k Corolla at 32 MPG, the break even point is 19.86 years (because of the higher cost of the Volt vs Leaf).

The Volt would take 91.06 gallons a year, more or less. People have been good at getting only maintenance charge from the ICE.

Let us assume best case, no ICE use from the Volt (impossible, I know), it would still take 16 years vs the $5k Corolla.

Now, Volt vs Leaf. No math needed. Volt costs more, actually needs fuel, so the Leaf is the best buy on fuel costs only. Driving distance, on the other hand, is a different beast entirely.

[jeff88]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Mom and Dad aren't picky, and my dad drives my diesel truck already. What special consideration needs to be made about a diesel other than making sure it isn't run out of fuel?

Owning a diesel, you know how the maintenance and general drive-ability can be slightly different compared to a gas, but if they already drive your diesel truck, I wouldn't worry about it, except for filling up at the station of course! After years of grabbing the gas nozzle, one could imagine accidentally grabbing the gas instead of the diesel out of habit.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

What kind of mods are we talking, and how much does it improve mileage? Just wondering if they are diesel specific, or the general aero improvements.

Yeah, I was just talking the aero MODs... grill block, belly pan, etc. Of course, there are a ton of things you can do that aren't aero related, just depends on what you get.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I considered it once when looking at an Oregon State auto auction. I'm not sure how much utility I would get out of it on a regular basis unless I start loading bicycles into it. The plug-in conversion idea sounds like it could be a smart move. I could commute and still get groceries for free. I do make a 130mi round-trip every 2 weeks that would be nice to do for free also, but that only accounts for 3,250 miles per year.

Here is a link to (some) information about the PHEV Escape:
Escape PHEV TechInfo - EAA-PHEV

I'm not sure if it would work for you, but it is definitely worth looking into. I personally like the idea of having decent gas mileage (and battery mileage) while still having some decent cargo space. The Costco trips, Home Depot trips, vacations, sports trips...

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm only looking at 2004 and newer for the fiance and Mom, but that is good info. Any other tips related to the Corolla? I'm leaning towards that option since it's possible to get 40mpg with the manual, and they don't cost too much.

I'm not too sure about the newer generations of Corollas, but I do know my generation is the first Toyota used the aluminum block with iron sleeves. My Toyota forum is subdivided into each generation. This is the link to the 9th gen (2003-2008):

9th Generation (2003-2008) - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

A couple of the "stickies" will help with what to look for when researching a Corolla you find for sale. You can follow the links to the 10th gen, if you want to research the newer model.

Hope this helps!

[PressEnter[]]

I might fix the '99 Protege. I have an '03 (same gen) with 136K miles on it. It's rusted pretty badly, but the only time it's broken down was when the timing belt went, and I could have avoided that by checking it at 100K as recommended. I had all the valves and cylinders checked at that time and was told the engine was easily good for another 100K miles.