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Old 08-17-2017, 10:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
The only thing that will force selfish people with their head in the sand to push forward into a 50 mpg or better car is a carbon tax.
Or electricity at the equivalent of 50 cents per gallon!

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Old 08-17-2017, 11:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Or electricity at the equivalent of 50 cents per gallon!
You dreamers. How is that going to happen? I have comparatively cheap electricity at $0.13/ kWh compared to many other places in the world. That is equivalent to to gas at $4.40. I'm paying $2.33 for gas. Gas is way too cheap. Americans are buying pick up trucks and large SUV's to drive back and forth to work like they are going out of style. It will take years (a decade) to unravel that mindset and get them off the road now. We need a carbon tax to begin gently phasing in now. To support research into Gen4 nuclear. The world currently uses 70Twh of electricity /day. You have to store at least a day at grid scale You think your going to build enough storage to make Solar take the place of giant GW scale coal plants?
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It is not cheaper to buy an electric car than a regular car. People are still buying 18mpg pick up trucks all day long. More than ever. The market will not encourage people to buy a Prius or an electric car.
It's not cheaper to buy an electric car now. The video is not about now, it is about the very near future.

The problem with drastically raising taxes on energy is that it affects the whole economy. Cheap energy is how the world became so wealthy. When petroleum alternatives become cheaper, then world prosperity will grow further, and oil use will drastically decline.

Vehicle fuel efficiency has dramatically improved, especially in the last decade, and every indication is this trend will continue.

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Old 08-17-2017, 11:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You think your going to build enough storage to make Solar take the place of giant GW scale coal plants?
Those in the know seem to think so!
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Those in the know seem to think so!
The wishful who have not run the numbers. Lot's of Kumbaya hype. 70TWh of storage, For 1 day. Just for the current electrical consumption not even considering doubling that to replace all transportation. Please be pragmatic.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
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OIL can be "stored" in containers; generated AC-power can NOT be "stored' unless it has been converted (incurring an efficiency loss) into DC-power which CAN be stored in chemical batteries or electronic super capacitors...but BOTH incurring even further efficiency losses. Then, that DC-energy takers another efficiency loss when it is reconverted BACK into AC-power. Even assuming 95% efficiency at each conversion, that exceeds 15% wasted energy: putting $1 into a Piggy Bank and only getting 85 back ain't very profitable.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You people are dreaming on getting a huge increase in gas tax. Call it a carbon tax or a rainbow incentive or whatever you think people will embrace but it ain't happening in the USA. It would be the biggest tax on the poor and middle class you could think of, the most regressive tax in the country. So Bernie Sanders types, and Democrat types will never go for it. The right will never go for any major tax increase period for whatever reason. That leaves you with maybe 10% support probably more like 5%. Taxation to control behavior is poor government anyway. Jack booted thuggery in a suit and tie. Necessity or improvement in the product will drive any change in the masses, not government.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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You people are dreaming on getting a huge increase in gas tax. Call it a carbon tax or a rainbow incentive or whatever you think people will embrace but it ain't happening in the USA. .
A perfect example of how the free market cannot address carbon emissions and push forward energy / carbon/ population conservation to save the planet without destroying the economy. Energy production is economy. 1:1. So we will do way too little proactively and just have to come out the other side with something different after the crash.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler
Ummm, whom do you usually pay taxes too?
Not some global cabal, that's for sure.

Carbon taxes are inherently regressive, and can only be tweaked into progressiveness with additional layers of bureaucracy. Then you get to the 'truth and reconciliation' part:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_...es_.28ITMOs.29

Quote:
I have comparatively cheap electricity at $0.13/ kWh compared to many other places in the world.
You call that cheap? I pay $0.052/kWh. Soon that will be expensive.

Quote:
It is not cheaper to buy an electric car than a regular car.
ROI?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird
Taxation to control behavior is poor government anyway... Necessity or improvement in the product will drive any change in the masses, not government.
Politics follows culture. R. B. Fuller said "Reform the [metaphysical] environment, not the people."
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You call that cheap? I pay $0.052/kWh. Soon that will be expensive.
Not at the bottom of your bill you don't. Not even in the North West USA which is among the cheapest on Earth with it's 65% hydro. USA average is $0.18. Europe is .20-.35

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