Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now

Now available from EcoModder: ScanGauge II fuel economy gauge.  Click for details.  

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-28-2007, 09:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
Partial Kammback prototype tested - preliminary results

Originally posted: 07-16-2006, 07:13 PM

Spent about 45 minutes playing this afternoon. No, it's not tested yet, and was more of a design exercise than anything else for the moment. I may reinforce and test it if the right weather comes up in the next day or 3 (before it falls off/gets wet). Otherwise, it'll come off having served its purpose as a learning tool for how V 2.0 should look.

Constructive feedback welcome!







Above: what this crappy picture from my antique 1 MP camera intended to show was that Metro95 was right: it doesn't seriously obscure rear vision. The boat-tail cuts of 1/5 of the rear window view, and though you can't tell from this photo, the horizon on level ground is just below the "roof", so full visibility is retained of following traffic.








(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
My thoughts while making this:

- compound curves are hard to get right (I got the "roof" of the tail eventually, but not the sides right).

- I need to round the transition from roof to sides; right now it's a sharp angle (unlike the car's shape ahead of it).

- The side-of-hatch to side-of-tail transition is messy. I really need to start the boat-tail sides at the forward edge of the hatch sides. Also, you can't tell in the photos, but the right side is tapered further than the left side (at first I was focussed entirely on roof taper, and didn't taper the right side as much as it looks like I could have).

- I tried to project the existing tapering lines of the bodywork into the tail without any big changes, but I could possibly be a little more aggressive. Only tuft-testing would say for sure (looking for clean flow, right to the back of the tail)

- Ryland: I had the same thought about getting a junk hatch. I know where there's a '95 sitting in a farmer's field about 20 minutes away.

- Materials? If this is worth making a "good" copy, I was thinking: fibreglass over high density foam (messy, complicated, time consuming, little experience with the materials); junk hatch with attached sheet metal, faired & painted (also time-consuming, but I'm more familiar with the materials & methods); lightweight plastic or aluminum frame covered with sheet plastic/sheet metal... Plexiglass? Might be hard to form into compound curves (the stuff I've used in the past was fairly brittle. Also, how to join the top & sides in a rounded transition?)

- Not sure about dimples or VGs though. Since I'm an amateur, I'm just trying to stick to the basics: reducing the size of the trailing wake by tapering the shape as much as possible without causing flow separation. Also, I recall reading that dimples don't work for automotive scale/shapes.

- a finished version which I leave permanently on the car could serve as an attachment point for an extended version for highway use.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
Public reaction...

I've never had too much unsolicited public response to the wheel skirts, but the cardboard partial boat tail drew a small crowd. A question and answer session ensued in which at one point my sanity was debated.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
I'd prefer a more rounded top-side transition if possible. Sharp angles can trip smooth airflow into unwanted vortices, according to people smarter about aero than myself.

Fiberglass... I did some searching on how people make custom body kit add-ons, and it's a pretty complicated process:

- Build the prototype on the car out of whatever combo of materials you want (wood, metal, high density foam)

- make a mold by coating the prototype with fiberglass

- use the mold to make your good copy...

Those are the basics, as far as I can tell, anyway.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
Possible construction techniques:

One-Off Construction Using GRP/Urethane Foam Composite
http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.htm
(for making the car - trike - body shown below)



Also:
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...cowl/index.htm
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
Did a non-rigorous test - A-B only. (Cardboard/duct tape prototypes don't lend themselves to removal & reinstallation, so sorry, no A-B-A.)

That said, conditions were PERFECT. Next to no wind.

Results @ 55 mph (88.5 km/h)

- with partial boattail: 61.23 mpg (US) avg.
- without boattail: 59.85 mpg (US) avg.
- partial boattail gain: 1.38 mpg (US) / 2.3% above "stock"

Conditions:
Observed at: Grenadier Island 18 July 2006 4:00 PM EDT
Temperature 28°CPressure/ Tendency 101.5 kPa↑Humidity 63 %Humidex 36 Dewpoint 20°CWind calm DRLs, alternator ON, fan ON @ 3

W E

Partial boattail
59.8 61.6
60.2 63.3
59.4 63.1

61.23333333 avg

Non-boattail
57.2 61.7
58.7 61.8

59.85 avg.

Observations
This is about in line with what I predicted, based on the gains seen from grille block & wheel skirts (5.7% combined).

The difference between this mod and those, is this is a complex shape which can be optimised with tuft testing. The others were essentially no-brainer gap-fillers.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
For testing, I run alternator ON.

And today I ran DRLs (2-lane stretch of highway, oncoming holiday traffic), and the interior fan at "3".

Also, I normally test with cruise control to remove my bias & right foot from the experiment and leave it all up to an impartial and more consistent microprocessor. All of which is to say: no DWL. My cruise sucks at getting good FE, even on mostly level roads (speed corrections, even minor ones, are not "gentle").
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
I should have tested at 85 km./h, not 55 mph.

Why? Because all of my other tests have used metric speeds, and I can't compare today's numbers with past tests done at 85. (55 = 88.5 km/h).

I did it at 55 mph because I was barrelling towards the "start" line when I suddenly remembered I hadn't reset the SG to report in metric. So I just set the cruise to the nearest multiple of 5 and kept going. Lesson learned.
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 09:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,914

Blackfly - '98 Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.07 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Metro EV
90 day: 107.11 mpg (US)

U.F.O. - '00 Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 83.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 239
Thanked 847 Times in 471 Posts
I posted a fresh article at MetroMPG.com about the "Kardboard Kammback" described in this thread.

(And yes, I realize it's not technically a Kammback )In it, among other things, I outline the reasons for grafting cardboard on the *** end of the Firefly in an attempt to mimic the shapes of these slick hatchbacks:





FYI, you are forgiven for not recognizing the car on the right. It's the 99-05 Audi A2, which of course was never available in North America. With its at the time world-leading Cd for a production car equal to that of the Insight, the TDI version of the A2 was rated at 3L/100 km, or about 78 mpg (US).


(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
__________________
Latest project: removable Geo Metro boat tail
Latest test: Massive cardboard air dam on a Geo Metro


www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to build a partial Grill Block for a Caravan/Town & Country popimp DIY / How-to 21 12-18-2009 04:14 PM
Acceleration and Fuel Economy Tested SVOboy Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 7 01-09-2009 01:06 PM
Video: Jay Leno checks out a Ford Escape plug-in hybrid prototype MetroMPG Hybrids 7 12-17-2007 09:45 PM
Article: Tips tested by Edmunds Lazarus Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 2 12-03-2007 11:10 PM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com