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Old 06-11-2011, 02:27 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Yes, I think so, Mark. I've put 2100 miles on the new tires/wheels, and am averaging 51.6 mpg with them. That's significantly better than my average highway mpg with the stockers, although two other Reno to Ely tanks with the stockers bracket my current mpg almost exactly. It still looks like a possible gain, and no net loss, with highway driving on the taller, heavier tires.

Tony, that is the famous Shoe Tree in the background. The snow and wind must have dropped a lot of shoes last Winter, as most of the long strings of shoes aren't there any more. The tree (a Fremont Cottonwood) is just leafing out now, in mid-June! I averaged 49 mph on US 50, The Loneliest Road in America. From Fernley NV to Beaver UT is 461 miles, and I only got passed by ~35 cars in 9-1/2 hours, averaging 49 mph. The reward was 54.2 mpg.

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Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
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49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg

Last edited by SentraSE-R; 06-11-2011 at 02:36 PM..
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:59 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I read that the shoe tree fell down (apparently by vandals) thats why I was wondering, you must have found the replacement tree. Are you pulse and coasting or just steady throttle?

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Old 06-12-2011, 02:02 AM   #53 (permalink)
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The one in my photo has been the Shoe Tree since at least 2005 when I started driving to Bryce Canyon NP annually. It may well have replaced one that fell down.
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Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:21 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I'm back home from Utah. I've averaged 51.3 mpg over the past 2900 miles since I put the taller tires on my xB last month, v. its lifetime 49.0 mpg average for 23,700 miles. I got 50.3 and 51.0 mpg for the two tanks on my return trip. Total miles traveled divided by total fuel used = a 50.9 mpg average for the 1700 mile Utah trip.
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Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:58 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I'll probably do the tire testing this weekend. I want to pull the wheels to install new brake pads anyway.
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Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:52 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Mean Green Toaster Machine - '06 Scion xB
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RESULTS IN
Testing description

Testing was performed 6/19/11. Weather was 70-77 F, sunny, with crosswinds of 0-15 mph initially, increasing to 15-25 mph by the end of the testing. I performed the testing by driving out to the testing area on my 195/65-15 mules (C tires), calibrating them on the test loop, and switching to the A (205/50-17) and B (185/60-15) tires for testing before testing the (by now cooled off) C tires, then retesting the As. All tires were well-used. The As still have 7/32" (70%) tread depth remaining. The Bs have greatly-accelerated center wear, with 2/32" center tread depth, but about 6/32" (60%) edge tread depth. The Cs have 6/32" (60%) tread depth. The A tires are mounted on non-aerodynamic alloy wheels. Bs and Cs are mounted on stock steel wheels. Following photo shows A tires/wheel on car ready to be dismounted, B tire/wheel on ground ready for mounting.


Testing and setup took a total of 10 hours! I used an IR thermometer to check ambient and tire temperatures. Before mounting, the tires were ~75 F. After the low speed testing, they reached 92 F. After freeway driving, they reached 114 F.

I weighed the mules (C tires), and got a 0-3 lb difference from the stockers (B tires). The mules weighed between 35.5 and 38.2 lbs. Some back-to-back testing had both B and C combos weighing 35.5 lbs - on three consecutive weighings. Since I don't think that's possible, I'll call my scale flaky, and the mule Cs 1.5 lbs heavier than the stocker Bs. The heavier A set at 47 lbs each, are 12 lbs heavier than the Bs, and 11 lbs heavier than the Cs.

I inflated all tires to 51 psi cold for consistency. I drove the Cs over the test course (a 10.6 mile loop on a frontage road, mostly untrafficked on Sunday) to calibrate them for distance accuracy before starting the testing. I was only passed by three cars while driving during my 10 hour test routine. Of course, a lot of the time, I was parked changing tires, recording data, etc. The UltraGauge calibration was 1.033 for the Bs, 1.09 for the Cs, and 1.099 for the As.

Cruise control testing
All testing was front tires only, dragging the same A (205/50-17) rears. Testing with each pair of front tires was one lap with cruise control at 34-35 mph (calibrated by GPS and verified by calibrated Ultragauge).

Pulse and glide testing
The results were recorded, the UG and GPS trips were reset, and I proceeded to the second test, a Pulse and Glide on the 10.6 mile frontage road loop between 1500 and 2500 rpm (roughly 20-30 mph in third gear, keeping the engine load between 78% and 83%. My earlier testing of A and B tire sets found no significant difference during cruise control testing at low 30 mph speeds. My real world driving with the A tires indicates they may slightly improve mpg, or at least not hurt it. At the time of testing, I'd driven 2900 mostly highway miles on the As, and achieved a 51.3 mpg average with them v. a 48.8 mpg average over 20,000 miles with the B set. My theory, and the reason for this test, was to see whether the 4.97% taller than stock but essentially same weight C mules performed better in P&G, where the greater inertia problems of the 5.31% taller than stock but 12 lb. heavier As should be a handicap.

Highway testing
The results were recorded, the UG and GPS trips were reset, and I proceeded to the third test, a 9.6 mile highway drive on the highway paralleling the frontage road. This necessitated entering the highway, driving at 54-56 mph for two exits, exiting the highway, turning around, re-entering the highway, rexiting it, and returning to my starting position to swap tires. There was a lot of variability in acceleration rates entering the highway. I tried to decelerate at the same spots before exiting the highway, but results of this third test are inherently the most variable. The double acceleration to highway speeds should favor the lighter B and C tires.

Anomalies
The plan was to start testing each test tire set cool, to be consistent, but I made two errors. Switching from A tires to B, I reset the UG's trip too soon, and was unable to calibrate the UG for the B tire size. I had to drive the B tires four miles to get trip values to set the UG distance calibration, inadvertently warming them up, prior to testing them. At the beginning of testing tire set C, I got a couple of miles down the road and realized I'd left my IR thermometer where I'd been parked. I sped back at high speed to recover the thermometer, heating the tires to 114 F before starting the C tire testing.

Test results
A = Goodyear NCT-5 (V), 205/50-17, 47 lbs, 5.31% taller
B = Trazano H550-A, 185/60-15, 35 lbs, OEM
C = Continental ContiproContact, 195/65-15, 36 lbs, 4.97% taller

A1(cc) 49.3 mpg
A1(P&G) 69.9 mpg
A1(hwy) 39.4 mpg
B(cc) 50.6 mpg
B(P&G) 71.1 mpg
B(hwy) 41.5 mpg
C(cc) 53.0 mpg
C(P&G) 71.8 mpg
C(hwy) 41.8 mpg
A2(cc) 50.3
A2(P&G) 68.6 mpg
A2(hwy) 40.0

By test, green=best, red=worst
tire set A1....B.....C......A2
cc.....49.3-50.6-53.0-50.3
P&G..69.9-71.1-71.8-68.6
hwy..39.4-41.5-41.8-40.0

Conclusions
The light and tall C mules clean the other tires' clocks. The heaviest A tire/wheel combo came in last in each test. The reason I went to taller tires was to free up my poor car's engine. In stock form, it buzzed at 3200 rpm @ 60 mph. With the A and C tires, it still buzzes at a very rapid 3000 rpm @ 60 mph, but at least the taller tires provide a little relief from uber high rpm operation. Taller and lighter (C) conclusively wins. Taller and heavier (A) conclusively loses.

It's possible the warm tires caused the significant performance improvement of the mules, but higher inflation pressures typically don't produce much improvement above 40-45 psi. It's more likely their taller height and light weight are bigger contributors.
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Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg

Last edited by SentraSE-R; 06-20-2011 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:12 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Nice test. I'm exhausted reading it. Good results too. Satisfied with your purchase?
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:25 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Wow. Nice work.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:15 PM   #59 (permalink)
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SentraSE-R -

Great Job! Can you edit your results to map the tire sizes and weights to the tests? :

A = 205/50-17, x lbs
B = 195/60-15, y lbs
C = 195/65-15, z lbs

CarloSW2
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:46 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I'm impressed with how consistent the data are. Usually there's more variability, forcing me to say there's no significant difference between tests. I was so tired from the five tire swaps, I just drove my test laps and logged the data, so it was almost like blind testing. The first chance I had to analyze those data came as I wrote my report. The data look good, and consistent. While there still may be no significant differences in 1 mpg values in yesterday's testing, I'm willing to concede that 2 mpg differences probably are significant. I'm half ready to sell the 17" wheels/tires, or swap them for lightweight 15s. But it's probably not worth the effort for a 4% mpg improvement.

Thanks for your suggestion, CarlosSW. Tire sizes incorporated in results summary.

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Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg

Last edited by SentraSE-R; 06-20-2011 at 03:00 PM..
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